May soon set up 50g.(suggestions please)

[Loller]

And when you say this will only last 1 year, do you mean the angelicus will die? Because it won't be too big for them, it's 36 length by 18 width by 18(or17 not sure)height. They only get to 5 inches, and I would assume they live longer than a year... Or are you talking about with the red tail, which I said was a no already.
I also said I would plant it, cave it, and driftwood.

[Loller]

The basis of my recommendation isn't off of the size difference. it is off of the temperament of the fish.
the RTS is extremely territorial, so anything that looks like a rival fish in their space means they'll harass it until it is "out of sight/out of mind" and loaches have too similar body style that'll evoke that aggression. Eels just because they'll get in your RTS's way. lol

Gourami's don't really need caves, they need visual separation/barriers. There needs to be tall plants that act as a wall for that division. My gourami was all over the tank, and never went in the available caves. So big driftwood/tall plants will only be the way to successfully keep 2 gourami in there.

Could you take a picture of the "black and yellow shark?" I don't recall there being such a FW fish.
and you can't rely on the fish store temper's...they house 8 oscars in a 10gallon at my local store. they seem to get along just fine but 8 oscars in a 10gallon tank is about 800000x overstocked. haha.

I think you'll enjoy the personality of the Angelfish more than a gourami-but that is based on personal experience and interaction with the fish.

With either the gourami/angelfish, you need appropriate stocking around it. so if you are set on those loaches, eel, 1 gourami (preferred), then you can fill out the rest of the tank with some neat tetra's. you can get a nice sized school in there.

The black and yellow fish, or what I now know is called the black banded leporinus is not going to work, as Amelia pointed out. So I could probably make a successful tank with angelicus school, angels/gouramis, 1 eel, and something else? A lot of people say that the eel doesn't do good with others, but in a 50g with caves I know he will.

I just now need to find that something else. How about ghost catfish? They seem nice and don't get too big.

[ameliaaahx]

Peacock eel
6 angelicus botia
2 gourami/angelfish
?
Algea eater

Did you read my last post at all?

As talldutchie and I have both already mentioned, 50g is too small for both a school of angelicus loaches and a peacock eel. Once those loaches reach full size they'll be pushing 6 inches, and the Peacock will be pushing 12". It may work for a while when they're juveniles but 50g is just too small both both of those species.

As I said in my last post regarding the Gourami and Angels: Gourami ARE suitable for a 50g, just not multiple Gourami. A single Gourami would be fine but with more than one, the dominant one will eventually kill the subordinate. I would not recommend Angelfish with angelicus loaches as the angelicus are fin nippers. ONE angel would probably do fine if you got the Eel instead of the loaches though.

If you stuck with just the 6 loaches, you could work a semi-aggressive tank around them. I'm not 100% sure on how well a Gourami would stand up against the loaches, there's always the chance that they'll turn out to be too aggressive and kick it's a**.

How about --
- 6 Angelicus Loaches (Botia kubotai)
- 2 Bristlenosed Ancistrus (this is your algae eater)
- 1 Three-spot Gourami (these are the toughest of the common Gourami so are most likely to be able to cope with the boisterous Loaches. Still, be prepared to move him if it doesn't work out. They also come in white/platinum, gold and marble colour morphs.)
- around 10 medium schooling fish. I would recommend a group of one of the following: Columbian Tetras, Black Skirt Tetras, Diamond Tetras, Giant Danios, Beunos Aires Tetra or Congo Tetras. I'm sure there are other options I've forgotten.

Or if you're intent on the Eel, just take the loaches out of that list and add the Eel, and then you also have the option of swapping the Gourami for an Angel.
- 1 Peacock Eel
- 2 Bristlenosed Ancistrus
- 1 Three-spot Gourami of your chosen colour /OR/ 1 Angelfish
- 10 medium schoolers


EDIT: Just read that your tank is only 3-feet long? Then the loaches and Eel DEFINITELY WILL NOT work in the long term. I was stocking on the assumption this was a 4-foot tank -- I don't even really think 3-feet is enough for a school of Angelicus loaches. I have a 3-foot 45g tank and I sure as hell wouldn't put a group of angelicus in there, it's just not enough room for them to romp around, they are a very active species. I know you're excited about stocking but please don't rush in and overstock with incompatible species, it's only going to end up badly. Dwarf Chain Loaches would be much more suited to your tank...

Also to add -- Ghost Catfish are a very shy and nervous schooler, they would not do well at all with either Loaches or an Eel.

[Loller]

Dont the eels like to dig in the gravel? They wouldn't attack the loaches, plus loaches only attack things that are smaller than them. I've seen peacock eels do fine with loaches before, so I'm going to have to pass on anything regarding removing the eel. Even this website says that they can be kept with peaceful fish, and the ghost catfish itself is. If it does get aggressive, I have a home for it in my 200g with plenty of caves, nice fish, and gravel. If I do have to move it once I set the tank up, I will tell you that you were right and that I was wrong.
I am NOT trying to be rude, or abuse fish in any way, but this is probably the last thing ill be worried about.

Regarding the eel, don't the loaches only get 5 inches? I know I can't do clown loaches, golden dojos are actually aggressive, and I don't know anywhere to get the dwarf chains... Do these you speak of eat snails, because I'm trying to make a planted tank, and the angelicus was the best room-efficient loach. In fact, every article I've read said they are peaceful, require 20 or 30, and get to 5 inches... You can search around for yourself. I see nothing wrong with angelicus in a 50g... Especially when planted, caves, and driftwood. I'm not trying to start an argument, just state facts.

I honestly do appreciate the suggestions, and especially people telling me that a black ghost knife won't work, and same with the other fish. I do not need suggestions for algea eaters, I already am going to get some very unique ones, and I will do research before buy.

So 4-6 angelicus, 1 peacock eel, gourami/angelfish, ?
For the other fish, I am hoping it can be a ghost catfish, or if you know of anything else, please say.

[Loller]

Just looked up the dwarf chain loach. Cool, but wouldn't the eel not do good with these because they get to 2 inches at most? I doubt the eel is mean in the first place, but you think it's pretty mean. These look like more of an add on. Not something to base a 50g off of. Or maybe I'm wrong. Please respond to what I said previously before this.

[mizzoutank]

You aren't getting the point with fish size and their space requirements.
Your tank is 2 inches taller than mine and there is no way I would imagine keeping all those fish in a tank that small. It simply does not work.
you'll stunt the loaches, and they'll die a slow painful death because their organs are outgrowing their stunted bodies.

If that is something you wish to do. then go for it.

Otherwise, since you are dead set on that eel, then I'll help stock the tank around the eel without those bigger loaches.
But since that isn't an option for you, then good luck with your set up.

edit: now you are adding more algae eaters, your bottom half was already overstocked and adding more will lead to serious trouble.

I hope you have meds stocked up for stressed fish/diseases.

[KevinVA]

Can we start over?

Your first post suggested that you only wanted the Clown Loaches because you hate snails... and they eat snails, so let's get some loaches. Ok, well... let's get past that, because there are numerous other methods for removing snails from an aquarium (and you don't even have this aquarium setup yet, so there's a chance you might not have any, albeit a small chance).

You also seem interested in filling the bottom of your tank out, first, so let's flesh that out first.

You can't just keep adding bottom dwellers to your tank with the hope that everyone gets along and will find their own territories around the tank. That's not how it works. These are animals... they're driven by natural instincts and they will act on them. Putting a Peacock Eel, which will grow to about 12" in with a bottom-dwelling school of (4-6) 5" Angelicus loaches, plus a 5+" pleco (I assume that's what you're talking about for algae eater) is asking for trouble. Since you only have 3ft of length to play, you're going to have to cut one or two species out of that scenario.

If I were to get the Eel, that's probably all I'd put in that tank for a bottom dweller. You probably won't be able to stock cories, otos, or any other smaller bottom dwellers, because the eel will become more aggressive toward smaller fish. You might be able to put a bigger cat in there, 5-8" or so. Something as aggressive as the eel.

As for the Angelicus, you could probably get away with keeping them in a school between 4-6. 6 is keeping it pretty strict imo.

Once we flesh out your bottom, let's move on to other things.

[Loller]

-I wanted 4 angelicus, but everyone is saying that they need a group of 6... 4 is FINE with me xD.
-I didn't suggest clown loach, I put it as one option. Angelicus does just as good job.
Just wanted to state that.

@mizzou: when you said "those bigger loaches" do you mean that loaches only getting from 4" to 5" at max and require a 20 or 30 is big? I honestly don't see anything wrong with 4 or 6 angelicus in a 50 gallon... If the eel really requires the whole bottom to itself, I would prefer not to build a tank around a $12 eel.
I am getting to the point with the fish size and requirements by the way. I just said that angelicus barely get 5" and the eels aren't always swimming around, they love caves and digging in gravel. If one eel is really going to take up too much space and mess up a whole 50g, then forget it. I thought I supplied proof, but then I guess I have to base it around the angelicus. If you will, look at 5 diffirent sites(random, doesn't matter) and they will probably all say that they need 20-30 minimum, aren't very mean, and get to 5" max.

When I was talking about algea eaters, I was talking about 2 kinds that don't get past 4". Please dont assume that before I talk about them. Ill focus on algea eaters last. The tank needs a algea eater(s).

@kevin: There's really no way to prevent snails when it's planted... The snail-free ones even sometimes have snail eggs on them, plus they are tiny and cost three times more. Loaches are the best way to prevent snails, assassins are pretty slow and take forever, and aquarium salt can kill fish. There's really no way to 100% prevent them without a snail eating fish. I like the loaches anyway. I want to fully plant the tank so everyone can hide and there is NO guarantee that it will be snail free. So I guess screw the eel and let's keep just the loaches and start this way. Next, I need to find out what fish to put. How many angels or dwarf gourami could I put? Or any other good fish you know of?

[ameliaaahx]

Dont the eels like to dig in the gravel? They wouldn't attack the loaches, plus loaches only attack things that are smaller than them. I've seen peacock eels do fine with loaches before, so I'm going to have to pass on anything regarding removing the eel. Even this website says that they can be kept with peaceful fish, and the ghost catfish itself is. If it does get aggressive, I have a home for it in my 200g with plenty of caves, nice fish, and gravel. If I do have to move it once I set the tank up, I will tell you that you were right and that I was wrong.
I am NOT trying to be rude, or abuse fish in any way, but this is probably the last thing ill be worried about.

1. Loaches do not only attack things smaller than them, loaches can be very aggressive when they want to be and will attack in a "pack", especially if they feel something is invading their space. I have seen it happen.
2. Yes Peacock Eels can be kept with peaceful fish -- loaches are not classified as peaceful fish, especially not when kept in tank with too many bottomdwellers where they don't have space to properly stake their territory.

Regarding the eel, don't the loaches only get 5 inches? I know I can't do clown loaches, golden dojos are actually aggressive, and I don't know anywhere to get the dwarf chains... Do these you speak of eat snails, because I'm trying to make a planted tank, and the angelicus was the best room-efficient loach. In fact, every article I've read said they are peaceful, require 20 or 30, and get to 5 inches... You can search around for yourself. I see nothing wrong with angelicus in a 50g... Especially when planted, caves, and driftwood. I'm not trying to start an argument, just state facts.

3. Yes Dwarf Chains eat snails, and no Angelicus are certainly not the most room-effective Loach. I gave you a list of better options in my first post -- eg. the Striata/Zebra Loach. They are only 3-4 inches and much more peaceful than the Angelicus.

If you will, look at 5 diffirent sites(random, doesn't matter) and they will probably all say that they need 20-30 minimum, aren't very mean, and get to 5" max.

4. http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/botia-kubotai/ -- here's a link to an article saying the base size for a tank for Angelicus should be 4-foot long due to their high activity level. It was the first one that came up in my Google search.
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/p...gelicus-loach/ -- here's another. Infact the only one I could find which said any less that 4-feet was LiveAquaria, which is NOT a reliable resource as they are only trying to sell fish.

For the other fish, I am hoping it can be a ghost catfish, or if you know of anything else, please say.

5. I'll quote my previous comment. "Ghost Catfish are a very shy and nervous schooler, they would not do well at all with either Loaches or an Eel."

@kevin: There's really no way to prevent snails when it's planted.

6. Actually, if you dip your plants in an Alum solution before you put them in the tank it'll kill all snails and eggs. Here's a link: http://blogs.thatpetplace.com/thatfi...minate-snails/

So I guess screw the eel and let's keep just the loaches and start this way. Next, I need to find out what fish to put. How many angels or dwarf gourami could I put? Or any other good fish you know of?

7. Well, I've already answered this question in every post I've made so far. I would suggest you look back over the posts, or stop wasting people's time. We are trying to help you and all you seem adamant on doing is attempting to prove us wrong. You may think you know better than us for whatever reason, but please don't forget that we have all been there. We have the experience, and we do not give you this advice because we want to ruin your fun by telling you you can't keep what you want together, we give it to you because we have already been there, made the mistakes and learnt from them.

The difference is keeping happy, healthy fish you are thriving in the habitat you've created for them, to keeping fish which are just living because you put your own desires for the tank before the fishes needs, and crowded them into a tank with incompatible species.

[Loller]

I do want a zebra loach but I don't know where to get them... I'll look for dwarf chains and zebras. Whichever I find first I'll get 6 or 8 of since they are very small. Also, I wasn't trying to be rude but I myself am also trying to make a point. I myself have seen a rainbow shark, a peacock eel, and an Angelicus all get along well in 1 tank, but I want my fish to be happy so please don't get me wrong. can you tell me how much dwarf chains and zebras cost? Until now, let's try to find regular fish. Forget everything else said, I want to make progress and not continue argueing.