May soon set up 50g.(suggestions please)

**Loller** · 02-28-2013, 02:15 AM

I have a 50g tank that I haven't used in a year and a half and I want to set up an aquarium. For sure, I will get 4 loaches, I am going to choose from clown, angelicus botia, or something else(mainly cuz I hate dem snails), if anyone knows a better loach, please tell. I also would like maybe 2 sharks, maybe a red tail and something else. I am not very experienced on sharks... I could a suggestion here. Also, for sure a pleco. There's a lot of them at the fish gallery, so I have like 15 choices.

Now that I know what I will get, this is where I'm not too sure. I am pretty interested in black knifes, but I don't know if they will get along with loaches. Same thing with the eel, It's the firetrack eel, I believe? Or I will have a peacock eel. And last I don't want to have only 2 or 3 fish that swim in the middle, so I would prefer to have a group of 3 to 6 of something. These fish I don't care if they are aggressive or not, as long as they get along with the others(assuming that the others are semi aggressive). Or instead of the 3-6 group I could go with 2 or 3 gourami.

Please give me some tips on which I should get or replace. Please note that I will plant this tank, add driftwood, and caves for hiding.

**Loller** · 02-28-2013, 02:19 AM

Sorry for forgetting a word. *I could use a suggestion here

**mizzoutank** · 02-28-2013, 02:26 AM

the better loaches are the ones that'll fit. I don't know about the other species, but clowns get far far too big for a 50gallon tank.

Additionally, loaches are peaceful, and putting in more than one shark will not end well.

You could fit 1 shark here, no more. red tails are active mean fish.

black knifes need massive tanks, like 3x the size of yours. so isn't an options.
eel's will be a toss up with your RTS-they enjoy the bottom of the tank and clear out their territory.
gourami-in a 50, i wouldn't risk more than one. they are very territorial as well. I had 1 in my 45gallon (the dwarf species, and known to be more calm) and he was the most active and protective fish i've ever owned. anything he saw was in his space and just chased other fish relentlessly.

so we'll need to start over.
what fish are available to you at your lfs? make a list and we can go from there.

**ameliaaahx** · 03-01-2013, 02:57 AM

Okay...

- Sharks will fight with loaches as they have the same body shape. It's one or the other.
- +100 to Mizzou. BGK is out of the question, 50g is way too small.
- Most eels will be too large although some of the smaller ones in the Macrognathus family may be suitable, such as the Zebra Spiny Eel or Peacock Eel. Larger species like the Tiretracks and Fires are out of the question. Like Mizzou said though, this will mean you'll have to nix the loaches and shark.

So you're going to have to pick either loaches, a single shark, or one of the smaller species of Eel if you can find one.

Going with the loaches, I would recommend Dwarf Chains -- I have 10 and I adore them. All the activity of larger loaches but smaller and MUCH more suitable for community aquariums. Many loaches are too nippy and boisterous to keep with community fish but Dwarf Chains aren't as long as they are kept in an adequate school -- I would recommend 8-10. They also have a very attractive spotted pattern which is quite similar to Angelicus loaches. Alternatively, Striata (otherwise known as Zebra or Candystripe Loaches) are known to be quite peaceful and 6 or so would be a good addition. Angelicus (otherwise known as Polka Dot Loaches) are a little larger than the Striatas and are known to be nippy on occasion. I would recommend one of the other species instead, but Angelicus could work if you worked the rest of your stocklist around them. Excellent article about botiine loaches, I used this when choosing loaches for my community tank. The species section down the bottom will be particularly useful to you:
http://www.loaches.com/articles/an-i...-keeping-botia

With a single Shark, your stocklist is then limited to upper and middle-dwelling fish. A mixed school of different coloured Tiger Barbs would work, as Sharks are tough enough to stand up to the Tiger's aggression. Alternatively larger schoolers such as Diamond or Columbian Tetras may work. If you go for a Rainbow Shark you have more options as they have better temperaments that Red-tailed Black Sharks. A couple of Bristlenosed Ancistrus may be okay with a Rainbow Shark, mine was fine with them, but there's always a chance the Shark will not tolerate ANY other fish in it's area. Mine attacked loaches, swordtails and kribensis -- basically anything shaped remotely like another shark. A single Gourami should be okay with a Rainbow shark as they inhabit different areas, but like I said, there's always a chance it won't work out with an aggressive fish like a Shark.

With an Eel, your stocklist will be limited to upper-middle dwelling schoolers which are too large to be eaten. Diamonds and Columbians are good choices.

Your best option would probably be to go with the Dwarf Chain Loaches IMO. That way you could still have your Plecos (bristlenosed ancistrus), a single Gourami (not a group) and a group of your favourite schoolers -- I'd recommend Harlequin Rasbora.

**Loller** · 03-01-2013, 03:26 AM

I see... So for sure no black ghost knife. I don't like how they look at full size anyway. Well, the loaches are kind of a must have, so I'm gonna go with 4 angelicus botia loaches for sure. And I have seen loaches do fine with red tails and a peacock eels in the same tank before, so I'm guessing you are basing it off of the scenario of one being small and one being larger.
Despite that, I'm not going to get red tails either. I'm probably just going to go for some semi-aggressive aquarium fish or a different shark that will work out. And probably 2 medium sized gouramis. I'll supply a few caves so they will do fine in a 50g. Before any more suggestion, I am not interested in barbs.

Now, I did see something that might work out. Sadly, I forgot the name, but they are black and yellow with stripes, and most likely a shark. What surprised me was that the fish store put a guppy with these on accident in a 15 gallon(tank they sell them in) I expected them to kill it, but they didn't even chase it, even more the fish/sharks were about 2.5 inches while the guppy was barely even half an inch. I believe these do get 12 inches, but by that time, I will either sell them or get a larger tank. If anyone knows what they are called, please tell so I can get the name into my head.

For the eels, yeah, I'm going to stick with the peacock eel. I'm not worried about him attacking anyone when he has the space and hiding areas so I guess he's on the list.

@miz: You must have an evil gourami... I've had a honey gourami in a red cherry tank and the cherries bred successfully. I moved him in my 200g+ pond.

If you still think gouramis aren't suitable for a 50g, what about angelfish?

So I am surely going to get 4 angelicus botia loach, a peacock eel, 2 gourami, and some fish I don't yet know about. Still open to change my mind and suggestions.

**mizzoutank** · 03-01-2013, 03:46 AM

The basis of my recommendation isn't off of the size difference. it is off of the temperament of the fish.
the RTS is extremely territorial, so anything that looks like a rival fish in their space means they'll harass it until it is "out of sight/out of mind" and loaches have too similar body style that'll evoke that aggression. Eels just because they'll get in your RTS's way. lol

Gourami's don't really need caves, they need visual separation/barriers. There needs to be tall plants that act as a wall for that division. My gourami was all over the tank, and never went in the available caves. So big driftwood/tall plants will only be the way to successfully keep 2 gourami in there.

Could you take a picture of the "black and yellow shark?" I don't recall there being such a FW fish.
and you can't rely on the fish store temper's...they house 8 oscars in a 10gallon at my local store. they seem to get along just fine but 8 oscars in a 10gallon tank is about 800000x overstocked. haha.

I think you'll enjoy the personality of the Angelfish more than a gourami-but that is based on personal experience and interaction with the fish.

With either the gourami/angelfish, you need appropriate stocking around it. so if you are set on those loaches, eel, 1 gourami (preferred), then you can fill out the rest of the tank with some neat tetra's. you can get a nice sized school in there.

**ameliaaahx** · 03-01-2013, 03:48 AM

Originally Posted by Loller

I see... So for sure no black ghost knife. I don't like how they look at full size anyway. Well, the loaches are kind of a must have, so I'm gonna go with 4 angelicus botia loaches for sure. And I have seen loaches do fine with red tails and a peacock eels in the same tank before, so I'm guessing you are basing it off of the scenario of one being small and one being larger.
Despite that, I'm not going to get red tails either. I'm probably just going to go for some semi-aggressive aquarium fish or a different shark that will work out. And probably 2 medium sized gouramis. I'll supply a few caves so they will do fine in a 50g. Before any more suggestion, I am not interested in barbs.
First of all, four is not a big enough group for loaches. They are a schooling fish and need 6+. You may have seen loaches do fine with sharks but that does not mean it's a good idea -- loaches and sharks do not mix. We are not basing it off the scenario of one being small and one being larger. We are basing it off the scenario that loaches and sharks are incompatible, and while Peacock Eels can co-exist with loaches, a 50g tank is too small for both.

Now, I did see something that might work out. Sadly, I forgot the name, but they are black and yellow with stripes, and most likely a shark. What surprised me was that the fish store put a guppy with these on accident in a 15 gallon(tank they sell them in) I expected them to kill it, but they didn't even chase it, even more the fish/sharks were about 2.5 inches while the guppy was barely even half an inch. I believe these do get 12 inches, but by that time, I will either sell them or get a larger tank. If anyone knows what they are called, please tell so I can get the name into my head.
That sounds like a Black Banded Leporinus. These are a 12 inch fish and are not suitable for housing in a 50g tank, especially not with community fish. You should not stock a tank with the intention of upgrading later -- stock for the tank you have now.

For the eels, yeah, I'm going to stick with the peacock eel. I'm not worried about him attacking anyone when he has the space and hiding areas so I guess he's on the list.

@miz: You must have an evil gourami... I've had a honey gourami in a red cherry tank and the cherries bred successfully. I moved him in my 200g+ pond.

If you still think gouramis aren't suitable for a 50g, what about angelfish?
Honey Gourami are not reliable indications of what all Gourami's temperaments are like. Honey's are some of the smallest and most docile of the Gourami family. Gourami ARE suitable for a 50g, just not multiple. A single Gourami would be fine. I would not recommend Angelfish with angelicus loaches as the angelicus are fin nippers -- especially when not kept in an adequate school.

So I am surely going to get 4 angelicus botia loach, a peacock eel, 2 gourami, and some fish I don't yet know about. Still open to change my mind and suggestions.

Just to summarise...
- 4 is not an adequate school -- loaches are a schooling fish.
- your tank is NOT large enough for a school of loaches and an eel, please pick one or the other.
- with 2 gourami, the dominant one will eventually kill the subordinate. 50g is too small for multiple gourami as they are a territorial species.

**talldutchie** · 03-01-2013, 04:14 AM

Originally Posted by Loller

I see... So for sure no black ghost knife. I don't like how they look at full size anyway. Well, the loaches are kind of a must have, so I'm gonna go with 4 angelicus botia loaches for sure. And I have seen loaches do fine with red tails and a peacock eels in the same tank before, so I'm guessing you are basing it off of the scenario of one being small and one being larger.

For how long? Was that with adult individuals?

Despite that, I'm not going to get red tails either. I'm probably just going to go for some semi-aggressive aquarium fish or a different shark that will work out. And probably 2 medium sized gouramis. I'll supply a few caves so they will do fine in a 50g. Before any more suggestion, I am not interested in barbs.

Are you interested in keeping your fish happy and healthy long-term? Or is this a project for a few months after which you will return the fish or sell them?

Now, I did see something that might work out. Sadly, I forgot the name, but they are black and yellow with stripes, and most likely a shark.

Most likely not a shark. Sharks are a marine species. The name shark is applied to anything vaguely having the same shape as a shark. Almost anything sold as shark isn't suitable for most aquaria since it gets too big.

What surprised me was that the fish store put a guppy with these on accident in a 15 gallon(tank they sell them in) I expected them to kill it, but they didn't even chase it, even more the fish/sharks were about 2.5 inches while the guppy was barely even half an inch. I believe these do get 12 inches, but by that time, I will either sell them or get a larger tank.

Fish crammed together in a shop holding tank are often so stressed out they don't eat. So what you saw in the shop doesn't mean much

For the eels, yeah, I'm going to stick with the peacock eel. I'm not worried about him attacking anyone when he has the space and hiding areas so I guess he's on the list.

If you still think gouramis aren't suitable for a 50g, what about angelfish?

So I am surely going to get 4 angelicus botia loach, a peacock eel, 2 gourami, and some fish I don't yet know about. Still open to change my mind and suggestions.

You're not even taking your water ph and hardness into consideration. You are throwing species together without any thought if this will end in disaster within a year.

Angels and gouramis means a fight.
An adult red tailed shark will do it's very best to kick the botia out of it's territory. Unless you provide plants and break up sightlines that territory will be more than half a 50g. The botia will suffer from this.

You are still going to keep Botia in too small a number. These inhabit the same space as the eel and will compete for hiding places.

If you like your botia so much I don't understand why you don't design your tank around them. Botia kubotai is well described. A 50g is borderline big enough for a decent sized group of them. Design a proper tank and you could have healthy, happy fish for a decade.

**talldutchie** · 03-01-2013, 08:34 AM

I think this was a bit too harsh, apologies! Unfortunately the time to edit my post has expired.

I do think that the proposed species mix is not a good one. Too much potential for conflict and species outgrowing this tank. IMO it's not sustainable for more than 9-12 months. If you absolutely want to do Botia Kubotai (latin name for the botia you want) then I strongly suggest you focus on designing a tank for them. It's a fascinating species with an intrecate social structure that deserves to be kept with care.

**Loller** · 03-02-2013, 02:19 AM

I just said I didn't want the red tail... If I were to design the tank around the angelicus botia, what could I put with them? I kinda would like semi-aggressive fish, and not guppies or neon tetras if you get what I'm saying. Again, I could just put them with what I want, but I came for help, and I want to give my fish a good home.

So probably
Peacock eel
6 angelicus botia
2 gourami/angelfish
?
Algea eater