I've had it!!

[ameliaaahx]

Sooo much cooler! As yes, that is a little racist. Welcome to New Zealand, the most racist multi-cultural country in the world. Bet it doesn't say that on the tourism ads.

Haha, Fish-Nazi! I bet they were thinking it!

Funny you say that, Crunchy... Most of the time I post on here I'm snuggled up in bed.

[fearsome]

The easiest way to relax is to think about when you are the "clueless" noob. There are some people probably many on this board who are go getters and really research subjects etc.. But the vast majority of society is not like that. Offer your advice when people want it, but dont try to hard to change society it never really changes, I could type out a 10 page essay on why it never has and never will.

Do you know everything about computers? Sound systems? Smart phones, the hardware, or just the software? Nobody has everything down and everyone picks what it is they are willing to really learn about and do right and I know as someone who has dabbled in many of those things I listed that 99% of people who deal with those every day have no clue what they are doing and are ruining the things they have or making horrible buying decisions and over spending for poor quality stuff. When given the opportunity I try to help but as soon as I sense someone is being put off I try to lay off. You cant save every fish in the world.

[madagascariensis]

I agree with you that society will not change, at least not soon, but there still is a big difference between phones and fish.
phones and electronics don't feel pain or suffer. if an owner doesn't do their research and they don't use the full potential of their appliance, get ripped off, etc, it is their own fault and they are the only ones who get hurt.
with fish(and any other pet for that matter) the pet bears the brunt of the ignorance despite never having done any wrong itself. I think that that alone justifies more than just an "I will help if you want me to" approach.

[talldutchie]

Funny story!

To me Amelia is one of those intermediate fishkeepers that I love meeting online, keen to learn and eager to do things right. Makes me wonder why that fish club lacks the same spirit.

Ah well... people, the secret to a good nights sleep and no stomach problems is knowing you can't win 'm all.

Remember this one?

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

(and for those of non-christian denominations, it works just as well if you replace God by the deity of your choice)

[ameliaaahx]

Haha, thank you Dutchie. I think that should be my new motto!

It's amazing to think that just over a year ago I know nothing about fishkeeping and it's many facets, and now I feel myself constantly exploring, learning and trying more so I can get as much as I can out of this amazing hobby. I have learnt SO much, and yet I still have SO much to learn! I will never know everything, nobody ever will, but I can sure as heck try.

[Dennis Bissett]

+1 Dutchie, we sometimes get extremely irritated that people dont want to put as much effort into learning about something we love as we did, it comes down to being prepared to admit you know bugger all about something you are doing, which a lot of people cant. Amelia all can really do is what you already have, ie offer advice where its asked for, and hope over time people in your club come to realise you do have a clue what you are talking about. Its no different over this side of the ditch, hope it develops well for you

[Cermet]

I come here first off, to learn. When I can sometimes give advice, and when that said advice can be of help, then that people, is just a bonus.

[talldutchie]

That is a very good attitude! Learn what you can and share what you know.

[Hardy85]

I feel lucky, I have some very good people in my local fish club, yea some over stock, but there are a bunch of older guys that know what they are doing, and are always willing to give advice if you're willing to listen to their stories.

But i have seen local groups on facebook and such where I want to bash my head off the wall with what some people do

[fearsome]

phones and electronics don't feel pain or suffer.

No but the effects of what people in mass do does cause suffering, from the environmental damage, to the psychological damage and drain on society. All of us here in every step of our life have to put up with a much harder life because the average person is ignorant of their buying decisions. And it probably effects us long term. It all depends on how you are willing to look at it, for instance you could say that people who buy fish and let them die or not live long in a small tank cause suffering, or you could say they create jobs and ensure the survival of that species, as long as someone in Hong Kong can make money breeding those fish. On top of that living in small tank with some stress is probably not worse than living in a river with predators.

Same way lets say you look at something like an iPad, 99% of consumers don't know that Apple purposely makes iPhones small, and will not make macbooks with convertible touch screens because by doing both of those they make people buy iPads. All this results in waste that is totally uneeded which kills the environment which kills fish. Most of todays iPads and ARM based tablets are nothing more than giant phones and people who own them are already sporting phones so why are they wasting money and killing the environment to own them when their laptop and phone already completely overlap in every function for that device?

Also the average consumer who does not do research harms other people too, because by not making good buying decisions they force companies that make better or more sustainable products to go out of business or change their business and then even the people who do make smart buying decisions literally have no choice because there is nothing available for them left on the market. This is the harsh nature of the real world, and why its more effective to do advertising than make good products, why many products are designed purposely to fail because if you make something too good you actually go out of business because no one needs to buy your product again when it breaks or becomes obsolete in 2 years. There is a reason why the industry is moving to make devices like tablets where every part is built and glued together so when it gets old and slow you have to throw everything out and buy all new creating more waste, killing the environment etc.... It is the irony of our world, worse service, worse products, are more profitable and more sustainable as a company (not to be confused with environmental sustainability).

So ya the phone you buy can cause suffering, just because you do not directly see it does not mean it exists. But at the end of the day its good to have people who are enthusiasts and try to help buy you cant be an expert in everything you do or even comprehend all the effects it has. I bet your TV, your sound system, or you phone probably caused me and the environment to suffer, and to some mechanic my car buying decision causes him to suffer because I don't know or care about cars.