Help please!!!

**Thlorian** · 02-17-2013, 05:39 PM

Ok - I did the NH3 and pH tests on our tap water:

The NH test came out very light yellow and so veru close to "0" on the NH card

The pH test came out light blue and thus 7.4 on the card.

So after all this I still do not understand as for three years, I have used nothing but spring water on every single one of my water changes with no issues!!

Well, I am going to do a 75% water change later today and replace with the tap water . . . I say later this afternoon just in case this is NOT the thing to do today and I will check back here around 3:00-4:00 for any additional posts . . .

**CrunchyLeaf** · 02-17-2013, 08:25 PM

Have you found a test kit that also includes Nitrite and Nitrate yet?
Can you give us a little more history on your tank? Have you had fish die here and there on occasion since you set it up? Did you set it up and add fish immediately?
I understand how frustrating it must be to have a tank that is seemingly fine for so long and then have it crash like this. Sounds to me like on top of some cycling issues you may have a little Old Tank Syndrome going on. Often times we think our tanks are fine because they "look good" and the fish are "acting fine" but without regularly testing the water parameters a serious problem can be brewing under the surface and it isn't brought to our attention until we start losing fish for no apparent reason.
Check out this link: http://www.bestfish.com/oldtank.html
Keep testing that ammonia and doing water changes as Cliff suggested, take your queue from the ammonia test and use that to determine the amount of water you change.

**Thlorian** · 02-17-2013, 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by CrunchyLeaf

Have you found a test kit that also includes Nitrite and Nitrate yet?
Can you give us a little more history on your tank? Have you had fish die here and there on occasion since you set it up? Did you set it up and add fish immediately?
I understand how frustrating it must be to have a tank that is seemingly fine for so long and then have it crash like this. Sounds to me like on top of some cycling issues you may have a little Old Tank Syndrome going on. Often times we think our tanks are fine because they "look good" and the fish are "acting fine" but without regularly testing the water parameters a serious problem can be brewing under the surface and it isn't brought to our attention until we start losing fish for no apparent reason.
Check out this link: http://www.bestfish.com/oldtank.html
Keep testing that ammonia and doing water changes as Cliff suggested, take your queue from the ammonia test and use that to determine the amount of water you change.

The two tests that I have right now involve a vial. I add to 3ml of water being tested a tiny spoon of reagent #1 and five drops of reagent #2, wait 15 minutes, and then compare the color in the vial to a NH3/NH4 sheet that ranges from 0-100 (Amonia I guess). The second test involves 2 drops of the product added to 5ml of water being tested and that gives me a pH (comparing to another sheet that ranges from 6.2 to 7.4.

I am doing a water change right now and will test afterwards when water has settled. Thanks for sticking with me on this here!

Oh, I have NEVER had any fish die in three years. When I first set-up the tank, I simply ran it without fish for 2-3 weeks before adding fish to it - no water changes, tests, etc. Guess I just got beginners luck!

**CrunchyLeaf** · 02-17-2013, 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by Thlorian

When I first set-up the tank, I simply ran it without fish for 2-3 weeks before adding fish to it - no water changes, tests, etc. Guess I just got beginners luck!

I'm honestly suprised that you never had a death in 3 years. Running a tank for 2-3 weeks without fish is no different than just adding them in straight away. To properly cycle your tank you would have had to dose your tank with ammonia, test the water and perform water changes accordingly.

The test you have the (NH3/4 test) is for ammonia. It's good that you are testing that because it is very toxic to your fish in any amount, but it's a necessary evil for cycling your tank, which is why we try to keep it low at 0.25 PPM. (All of this is explained in the Cycling With Fish thread that Cliff and I linked to you) You also need to find a way to test for Nitrite and Nitrate. You can take the water down to the LFS every day and have them test it or you can buy your own kit and test at home.

**Thlorian** · 02-17-2013, 11:18 PM

Completed a 75% water tank change. Instead of using a gravel cleaner to empty out the water and then add back in 1 gallon jugs of spring water, I used a pitcher and bucket to empty the water out and then the same pitcher and bucket to add tap water back in. I took a NH3 test and pH test about 15 minutes after the change. The NH3 color is closer to the .25 color than to the .50 color (it was at .50 last night prior to the water change). I will run this test again tomorrow after work to allow the Whisper filter to "move/cycle" the water around a bit. Oh, pH test was light blue at 7.4.

Thanks

**Thlorian** · 02-17-2013, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by CrunchyLeaf

I'm honestly suprised that you never had a death in 3 years. Running a tank for 2-3 weeks without fish is no different than just adding them in straight away. To properly cycle your tank you would have had to dose your tank with ammonia, test the water and perform water changes accordingly.

The test you have the (NH3/4 test) is for ammonia. It's good that you are testing that because it is very toxic to your fish in any amount, but it's a necessary evil for cycling your tank, which is why we try to keep it low at 0.25 PPM. (All of this is explained in the Cycling With Fish thread that Cliff and I linked to you) You also need to find a way to test for Nitrite and Nitrate. You can take the water down to the LFS every day and have them test it or you can buy your own kit and test at home.

Ok, I will pick up a Nitrate/Nitrite kit over the next 1-2 days after work - thanks

**Thlorian** · 02-20-2013, 01:52 PM

UPDATE: I visited three Fish Stores and liked only one of them because of the EXTREME cleanliness of the tanks (Crystal clear water and no floaties in ANY of the tanks), store was very neat and orderly, and their service. They actually listened to me for 15 minutes and offered advice WITHOUT trying to sell me anything! The other two stores tried selling me chemicals and other crap. I bought a great book "The Simple Guide to Freshwater Aquariums" from half-price books...best $5.00 I ever spent! I also picked up a Nitrate/Nitrite test kit and will be testing my tank every 3-4 days for Nitrates/Nitrites, Ammonia, and pH. The book above plus all of your tips and advice above have helped me to actually understand what goes on in a tank. I do have two questions though please. (1) There are two parts to my power filter namely the whisper bag that contains carbon, and a sponge that is placed just outside of the whisper bag. If the "sponge" that is used in my power filter is an integral part of the bio filtration process, shouldn't I be rinsing the crap out (no pun intended) of it monthly or every few weeks? I used to do this with every water change and it was pretty brown when I rinsed it then. (2) I am going to go with live plants for the first time ever. I plan to pick them up this weekend. Or should I is my question as I am in the "no-fish" stage right now as my tank grows with water changes and testing over the next month or so. Should I plant live plants now and if so, how do I keep any algae from growing or taking over the tank for now until I begin to bring fish into the tank itself? As always thanks for all your tips, help, and advice!

**Thlorian** · 02-20-2013, 02:12 PM

Oops one more question please - I have learned that water changes are arguably the most important thing to do for my tank. Ok, will do more and often weekly this time! But here is what I do not understand about water changes. Assuming my tank is up and running happily with fish, I will have a few large buckets full of tap water ready to do my water change. I will leave them sitting overnight to become acclimated to room temperature. BUT here's where I am lost; if my tap water does not have the safe numbers needed for my fish tank, i.e., pH, Ammonia, NH3/NH4, why am I putting this water in my tank? Wouldn't this make the water in the tank worse? Or does it counter the water already in there (or replaced) which has/had higher concentrations of Ammonia and Nitrates?

**Hardy85** · 02-20-2013, 03:41 PM

Just a few things from reading the thread over
1. the "yucky" stuff on the filter is actually good (its the beneficial bacteria), only when it is slowly the water flow a lot should you do anything to the filter media (white bag and sponge) and when you do anything, take a bucket of water directly from your fish tank, and shake and clean the filter media in that water ONLY. Try to not do all the media on the same day, space it out to avoid a mini cycle.

2. You really don't need to keep testing PH as much, that isn't the important thing right now.

3. You are going to want to invest in one of these
http://www.bigalspets.com/no-spill-c...FdGd4AodTEwAwQ
you can probably find one used, or a DIY to make one using tubing, fittings, and a water bed filler. It hooks to the sink and makes water changes a 1000x easier

4. After you get the tank settled you may want to adjust which type of fish you are keeping, most plecos (algae eaters) even though start small get HUGE, same with Bala Sharks.
This isn't the priority now, but will help for a happy healthy tank in the future. And I'm sure that everyone on here would / could help you pick out a good stock of fish that is geared at what you like

**Thlorian** · 02-20-2013, 03:41 PM

Hello Cliff - Just to make sure please, when you say "regularly clean it in old tank water once a month", are you meaning that I should lightly rinse both the white whisper cotton filter (with carbon in it) and the sponge biofilter (sits next to the cotton filter in the whisper container) lightly with old tank water and pop them back in?

Originally Posted by Cliff

+1 to the above

When we say our tanks are cycled, we are really saying our filters are cycled. The bacteria that you need to remove the toxins form the water keeping your fish safe and healthy will be in your filter media. If you replace your fiter media, you loose your cycle and also loose the bacteria that you need. I know many manufactures tell you to replace the filter media every month or so, but that is wrong. I have some filter media that is about 3 years old now and will last many many more year as I regulary clean it in old tank water once a month.