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Results 1 to 10 of 19
  1. Exclamation Betta sick with ick


    0 Not allowed!
    We have had our red Betta, Duke, for just shy of a year. Up until about 2 months ago he was in a half-gallon tank and was doing very well except that he seemed a bit cramped (his tail fins looked kind of squished). For Christmas, my son said he would like a bigger tank and we agreed and moved him to a 1.67 gallon tank. It has a filter that I run for about an hour every couple of days (it is the one that came with the tank but is a little too powerful and if I leave it on too long he ends up stuck to it) and I have been doing 50-75% water changes about every 2 weeks. We keep our house pretty cool so his tank temp runs about 22C in the winter.

    He did exceptionally well in his new environment. He fins fanned out and he looked majestic. About a week ago he started looking listless. Swimming around less, not eating well and just hanging out in the corner at the surface or in between the branches of his plastic plant. I did some extra water changes and moved him to a warmer location away from the window thinking he might be too cool. Then yesterday I noticed some white spots on his back and figured out it was ick. We have not introduced any new fish or plants and don't feed live frozen food so I have no idea where it came from.

    I have removed him from the large tank and placed in a smaller quart tank with conditioned and medicated water (Aqua+ and Rid-Ich Plus). He seems to be doing better at the moment (going to the surface when we approach the tank and his fins are spread). I changed out 75% of the water this morning and replaced with additional conditioned and medicated water.

    I am now attempting to clean his big tank. I emptied most (90%) of the water and filled with hot tap water (50C) and let it sit with the filter running for several hours until the water cooled to below 40C then emptied and filled again and let it sit with the filter going overnight and then repeated that again this morning.

    So my questions are: With the low water temperature causing the longer life cycle of ick, how long to I need to treat him to make sure it is gone?

    Is the 50C water hot enough to kill any of the larvae left at the bottom of the tank in the gravel. If not, what do I need to do to make sure they are
    completely gone from the tank before I re-introduce him?

    How do I prevent this from happening again?

    Sorry for so many questions but most discussions I have seen relate to the treatment of much larger tanks. Thanks for any help.

  2. #2

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lil'fish View Post
    We have had our red Betta, Duke, for just shy of a year. Up until about 2 months ago he was in a half-gallon tank and was doing very well except that he seemed a bit cramped (his tail fins looked kind of squished). For Christmas, my son said he would like a bigger tank and we agreed and moved him to a 1.67 gallon tank Still too small of a tank! miminum of 5gal is needed. It has a filter that I run for about an hour every couple of days (it is the one that came with the tank but is a little too powerful and if I leave it on too long he ends up stuck to it) A filter should be run at all times (24/7) - your fish got stuck to it because the filter took up too much of it's swimming space!and I have been doing 50-75% water changes about every 2 weeks water should be changed weekly. We keep our house pretty cool so his tank temp runs about 22C in the winter. bettas like warmer temps

    He did exceptionally well in his new environment. He fins fanned out and he looked majestic. About a week ago he started looking listless. Swimming around less, not eating well and just hanging out in the corner at the surface or in between the branches of his plastic plant. I did some extra water changes and moved him to a warmer location away from the window thinking he might be too cool. Then yesterday I noticed some white spots on his back and figured out it was ick due to being stressed in too small of a tank with most probably poor water parameters - I assume you don't have a test kit to check for ammonia. We have not introduced any new fish or plants and don't feed live frozen food so I have no idea where it came from.

    I am now attempting to clean his big tank again, a 1.67 gal tank is waaaaay too small for a fish. I emptied most (90%) of the water and filled with hot tap water (50C) and let it sit with the filter running for several hours until the water cooled to below 40C then emptied and filled again and let it sit with the filter going overnight and then repeated that again this morning.


    How do I prevent this from happening again?

    Sorry for so many questions but most discussions I have seen relate to the treatment of much larger tanks. Thanks for any help.
    There's a reason why you have only seen discussions related to larger tanks - no one should be keeping a fish in such a tiny tank AT ALL.

    If I were you, I wouldn't bother trying to treat the 1.67 but get a minimum of 5gal with a filter rated for at least 10gal and add the ick medicine to that tank (it will work as a quarantine tank) or even better, treat using a higher temp & salt while it cycles - a filter is necessary to grow beneficial bacteria to break down the fish's ammonia - it is also necessary to purchase a test kit to monitor water parameters.
    Last edited by imma24; 02-08-2013 at 03:24 PM.
    46 gal fw tank with black skirt tetras, neon tetras, spotted corys, cherry barbs, otoclinus, snails & 4 amano shrimp - plastic & live plants
    5 gal QT
    Remember: Our job is to take care of the water our fish live in

  3. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    So according to you my only option is to break my son's heart and tell him we have to give away his fish. So thanks for being absolutely no help.

    I understand that larger would be better but we don't have room in our small house for a 5 gallon aquarium. He was in a much smaller tank for a much longer time with no problems at all so I can't see how moving him to a larger tank would cause more problems. I can only do the best with what I have. I can/will change the water more frequently (though ammonia levels have never been out of range with my current schedule) in the future.
    Last edited by Lil'fish; 02-08-2013 at 03:47 PM.

  4. #4

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    OK - then the other option is to keep the fish in the same small tank with no filtration, treat it for ick in there and hope it doesn't die. I don't believe I suggested giving it away.

    The fish might have done well in the small tank but now it's not doing well. Yes, heat will kill the ick parasite once it's fallen off the fish onto the bottom of the tank. You were correct to change the water very often and to use conditioner and medication and all, however, once the fish is infected, unless you keep the water really clean and the fish is less stressed, the ick will eventually suffocate it or cause a secondary infection.

    I apologize if this doesn't help you - I've been through ick myself and I also have a small child who loves fish.
    46 gal fw tank with black skirt tetras, neon tetras, spotted corys, cherry barbs, otoclinus, snails & 4 amano shrimp - plastic & live plants
    5 gal QT
    Remember: Our job is to take care of the water our fish live in

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ypsilanti, Michigan
    Posts
    5,700

    Awards Showcase

    A lovely red rose for you to enjoy ... - mermaidwannabe for the help - smaug Happy Father's Day! - Aminax awesome tank in TOTM - Lady Hobbs Good guess! - Lab_Rat 
    To match your Super speed LOL - 850R Cool contest! - Wild Turkey Great shrimp advice - Wild Turkey You have the patience of a rock - Aeonflame Happy 5th Anniversary - Aminax 
    Thanks! - Scrup hmm i dont this its the right species... but merry xmas XD - genocidex Merry Christmas! I blub you! - Aminax I love following your informative and well designed threads. I hope these loaches get huge for you! - Sandz Happy 30th birthday! - Aminax 
    Merry Christmas - Cliff Thanks for you help! Cheers! - koaladarshana Happy Birthday Bud. Cheers! - Strider199 Merry Xmas! Ill drink to that! - Sandz Happy New Year! - jeffs99dime 
    Cancer - Epilepsy - Foster Care - Gynecological Cancer - Rett Syndrome - Brhino 

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lil'fish View Post
    So according to you my only option is to break my son's heart and tell him we have to give away his fish. So thanks for being absolutely no help.

    I understand that larger would be better but we don't have room in our small house for a 5 gallon aquarium. He was in a much smaller tank for a much longer time with no problems at all so I can't see how moving him to a larger tank would cause more problems. I can only do the best with what I have. I can/will change the water more frequently (though ammonia levels have never been out of range with my current schedule) in the future.
    Andreahp is right on all accounts. Your fish is sick, you come to us asking for advice, you are given it, and then you reject the advice and insult the giver. Very nice.

    If you keep a pet of any kind you have a responsibility to provide for that pet. You are currently not doing that. Your fish has gotten by because bettas are very durable, but that only goes so far and now you're seeing the results. I really find it hard to believe you don't have any space in your house for a 16"x8" tank, but if that's the case then the bottom line is you shouldn't be keeping fish to begin with. My wife would love to own a horse but we certainly do not have land, or a barn, or anything else necessary to provide for one. So guess what? We don't own a horse.

    If you do not want to deal with the heartbreak of giving away your son's fish, I hope you are preparing for the heartbreak of telling your son your fish has died. Be sure and tell him it was because you were not caring properly for it when you do, and maybe at least a lesson can be learned from this.
    300 gallon mega tank: build in progress
    75 gallon community tank: tetras, danios, corys, platies, otos, pearl gouramis, bristlenose pleco, assassin snails, red cherry shrimp, bamboo shrimp
    70 gallon growout tank: clown loaches, sailfin pleco
    60 gallon goldfish tank: fancy goldfish
    29 gallon frog tank: 1 bullfrog
    10 gallon and 5.5 gallon betta tanks: 1 male betta each, sometimes snails

  6. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    I am sorry that I was rude. I am just very frustrated and it seems like everyone is very willing to criticize the situation without offer anything to help other than get a bigger tank. I get that bigger would be better. And will do that as soon as I am able. We are 3 people living in less than 900 sq ft and surface area is at a premium. We have no space for something as large as 16x8. Our current living situation is hardly ideal even for the people living here but we are doing the best we can. Hopefully, we will be in a position to move into a bigger place soon but until then I have to work with what I have.

    As far as him being stressed, prior to this, the only time he every seemed stressed was when the filter was turned on. He disliked the turbulence and in reality it is just too big/powerful for this size tank even though they were sold together. Is it possible that it would be better to change the water more frequently (50% change 2x per week) and leave off the filter all together? I also normally use a conditioner and biological supplement. Would it be better to leave these off?

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ypsilanti, Michigan
    Posts
    5,700

    Awards Showcase

    A lovely red rose for you to enjoy ... - mermaidwannabe for the help - smaug Happy Father's Day! - Aminax awesome tank in TOTM - Lady Hobbs Good guess! - Lab_Rat 
    To match your Super speed LOL - 850R Cool contest! - Wild Turkey Great shrimp advice - Wild Turkey You have the patience of a rock - Aeonflame Happy 5th Anniversary - Aminax 
    Thanks! - Scrup hmm i dont this its the right species... but merry xmas XD - genocidex Merry Christmas! I blub you! - Aminax I love following your informative and well designed threads. I hope these loaches get huge for you! - Sandz Happy 30th birthday! - Aminax 
    Merry Christmas - Cliff Thanks for you help! Cheers! - koaladarshana Happy Birthday Bud. Cheers! - Strider199 Merry Xmas! Ill drink to that! - Sandz Happy New Year! - jeffs99dime 
    Cancer - Epilepsy - Foster Care - Gynecological Cancer - Rett Syndrome - Brhino 

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    running a filter for a few hours now and then will have literally no effect apart from possibly sucking up some bits of crud. So if running the filter really isn't feasible then more frequent and larger water changes are your best bet.

    You should pick up a liquid test kit that allows you to test for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. Any detectable ammonia or nitrite is harmful to fish, and since you don't have an active filter you have no way to remove it apart from diluting it via water changes. If you have a test kit you can find out how much water you need to change how often to keep the ammonia down.

    I'm sorry that you're frustrated. We're not so much criticizing as pointing out that there's a reason for the problems you are having. My first betta was kept in a half gallon or so container, and it died after about 6 months, because I didn't know any better. We don't want the same thing to happen to your betta. The reason why everyone says "get a bigger tank" is because that's the only REAL solution to the issue. Everything else is just trying to slow down the bleeding.
    300 gallon mega tank: build in progress
    75 gallon community tank: tetras, danios, corys, platies, otos, pearl gouramis, bristlenose pleco, assassin snails, red cherry shrimp, bamboo shrimp
    70 gallon growout tank: clown loaches, sailfin pleco
    60 gallon goldfish tank: fancy goldfish
    29 gallon frog tank: 1 bullfrog
    10 gallon and 5.5 gallon betta tanks: 1 male betta each, sometimes snails

  8. #8

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    A++ to the above - I heartily agree. This advice is what we would give if someone temporarily had to remove a filter and not have a backup - however, you also have the complication of the ick.

    I truly hope your fish survives - however, if it doesn't, I would not replace it or put any other kind of fish in there. Bettas are kept in small cups in pet stores because that's how they are packaged for sale - doesn't mean they are happy in them or are in a healthy environment.
    46 gal fw tank with black skirt tetras, neon tetras, spotted corys, cherry barbs, otoclinus, snails & 4 amano shrimp - plastic & live plants
    5 gal QT
    Remember: Our job is to take care of the water our fish live in

  9. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    I really do understand about the bigger tank. When we initially got him (a cousin bought it for my son while she was babysitting him) he came in the little (.5 gallon) tank. When we upgraded the guy at the aquarium store recommended the one we purchased.

    I am trying to figure out which change in the last 2 months precipitated the problem so I can fix that and go back to the status quo until I am able to get a bigger tank.

    The things that have changed are: move to bigger tank, use of occasional filtration, use of the biological supplement, the addition of blue gravel to the green we already had, drop in ambient house (and subsequently tank) temperature.

    So the tank that is five times bigger than the previous one is probably not the problem.

    The filtration is not doing any good as implemented so I will leave that off and change water more frequently.

    I can't think of how different colored gravel might make a difference.

    The decrease in tank temperature may be a factor. Is there a safe way to warm this size tank?

    There was some mention of adding salt? Is this something that I should be doing? Might it help?

    I do get that these are stop gap measures until I can get a bigger tank but it is all I can do at this point.

  10. #10

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lil'fish View Post
    I really do understand about the bigger tank. When we initially got him (a cousin bought it for my son while she was babysitting him) he came in the little (.5 gallon) tank. When we upgraded the guy at the aquarium store recommended the one we purchased. Please do not rely upon recommendations from employees - they are there to make sales & bag fish - we usually recommend people ask questions here and not need to ask any questions in their local store.

    I am trying to figure out which change in the last 2 months precipitated the problem so I can fix that and go back to the status quo until I am able to get a bigger tank.


    So the tank that is five times bigger than the previous one is probably not the problem. Don't assume that - ammonia build up still happens quickly in a tank that size

    The filtration is not doing any good as implemented so I will leave that off and change water more frequently. Yes

    I can't think of how different colored gravel might make a difference. The gravel has nothing to do with it

    The decrease in tank temperature may be a factor. Is there a safe way to warm this size tank? I do agree that a sudden change in temp can stress a fish enough to bring on illness-How about purchasing a small heater that's adjustable (not set at a certain temp already) - from my understanding, bettas prefer a temp of about 80-82F

    There was some mention of adding salt? Is this something that I should be doing? Might it help? Salt is generally only recommended to treat certain illlnesses - it's not helpful if used routinely
    Please see my responses above
    Last edited by imma24; 02-08-2013 at 05:15 PM.
    46 gal fw tank with black skirt tetras, neon tetras, spotted corys, cherry barbs, otoclinus, snails & 4 amano shrimp - plastic & live plants
    5 gal QT
    Remember: Our job is to take care of the water our fish live in

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