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Thread: newbie ?s

  1. #11

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    Happy Christmas - MuckyFish   thanks for advising on vegetables for my kribs! so here is a discus - ScottishFish   You help a lot - PhillipOrigami   For the bank account, and thx for the rep - Cliff   beautiful discus! - Crispy   

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    0 Not allowed!
    Not sure of the post, either; but plants can be killed by high ammonia and nitrites are just terrible for plants. Mommy1 is correct, no way ammonia levels could reach harmful levels for plants with fish.

    Plants prefer nitrates and do not easily use ammonia.
    Knowledge is fun(damental)

    A 75 gal with eight Discus, fake plants, and a lot of wood also with sand substrate. Clean up crew is down to just two Sterba's Corys. Filters: continuous new water flow; canister w/UV, in-tank algae scrubber!! Finally, junked the nitrate removal unit from hell.

    For Fishless cycling:http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aqua...ead.php?t=5640

  2. #12

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    No Message - korith   Just a 'Thank you' penguin to a water treatment guy :-D. Clean water and sanitiation is a CORNERSTONE of modern civilization that people take for granted and don't think twice about & I felt that way about it before I had fish lol. Thanks to my HS Hi - 850R   because I LOL'ed at your single neon 90 gal show fish - ddavis1979   For the help on CO2 and plants - Greentoads41   Great looking tank you have! - ~firefly~   

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    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cermet
    Plants prefer nitrates and do not easily use ammonia.
    That statement is right and wrong. Yes, terrestrial plants prefer nitrates and are able to consume it at higher rates than ammonia. However, aquatic plants don't consume nitrate at all. The plant must convert the nitrite and nitrate to ammonium first (wasting energy doing so) thus ammonium is clearly the preferred nitrogen source.

    Here's a very interesting article written by Diana Walstad describing plant filtration: http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Plants_and_Biological_Filtration

  3. #13

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    Happy Christmas - MuckyFish   thanks for advising on vegetables for my kribs! so here is a discus - ScottishFish   You help a lot - PhillipOrigami   For the bank account, and thx for the rep - Cliff   beautiful discus! - Crispy   

    Question


    0 Not allowed!
    Where is my statement wrong? Nitrites are not good for plants and ammonia is toxic at high levels - both true statements as far as I've read. Relative to nitrates, you are saying that every single plant fert mfg. is wrong since they include nitrates? Most people with plants dose nitrate, never ammonia ... .

    The article you cite says plants have no problems using nitrates; only that ammonia is eaier to uptake. Still don't see where I'm wrong ... confused here.

    Also, ammonia will kill fish very quickly, is bad for people to breath, so, can't see anyone using it; also, the article is dead wrong on this point - ammoina is NEVER used directly by plants - ammonia is a gas at room temperature unless in a solution ... they mean a complex containing ammonia.
    Last edited by Cermet; 01-14-2013 at 02:49 PM.
    Knowledge is fun(damental)

    A 75 gal with eight Discus, fake plants, and a lot of wood also with sand substrate. Clean up crew is down to just two Sterba's Corys. Filters: continuous new water flow; canister w/UV, in-tank algae scrubber!! Finally, junked the nitrate removal unit from hell.

    For Fishless cycling:http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aqua...ead.php?t=5640

  4. #14

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    0 Not allowed!
    We don't have to dose ammonia, the fish do that for us.
    When I go fishing I just throw sharp rocks in the water and wait for the dead fish to float to the top... Kingfisher
    Everything happens for a reason. Sometimes that reason is you are stupid and make bad decisions.

    I think my fish is adjusting well to the four gallon, He's laying on his side attempting to go to sleep on the bottom of the gravel.
    Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
    Dear naps, sorry I hated you so much when I was a child... Love me

  5. #15

    Join Date
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    Happy Christmas - MuckyFish   thanks for advising on vegetables for my kribs! so here is a discus - ScottishFish   You help a lot - PhillipOrigami   For the bank account, and thx for the rep - Cliff   beautiful discus! - Crispy   

    Smile


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by mommy1
    We don't have to dose ammonia, the fish do that for us.
    Wow! I'd never would have guessed that!
    Knowledge is fun(damental)

    A 75 gal with eight Discus, fake plants, and a lot of wood also with sand substrate. Clean up crew is down to just two Sterba's Corys. Filters: continuous new water flow; canister w/UV, in-tank algae scrubber!! Finally, junked the nitrate removal unit from hell.

    For Fishless cycling:http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aqua...ead.php?t=5640

  6. #16

    Join Date
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    No Message - korith   Just a 'Thank you' penguin to a water treatment guy :-D. Clean water and sanitiation is a CORNERSTONE of modern civilization that people take for granted and don't think twice about & I felt that way about it before I had fish lol. Thanks to my HS Hi - 850R   because I LOL'ed at your single neon 90 gal show fish - ddavis1979   For the help on CO2 and plants - Greentoads41   Great looking tank you have! - ~firefly~   

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cermet
    Where is my statement wrong? Nitrites are not good for plants and ammonia is toxic at high levels - both true statements as far as I've read. Relative to nitrates, you are saying that every single plant fert mfg. is wrong since they include nitrates? Most people with plants dose nitrate, never ammonia ... .

    The article you cite says plants have no problems using nitrates; only that ammonia is eaier to uptake. Still don't see where I'm wrong ... confused here.

    Also, ammonia will kill fish very quickly, is bad for people to breath, so, can't see anyone using it; also, the article is dead wrong on this point - ammoina is NEVER used directly by plants - ammonia is a gas at room temperature unless in a solution ... they mean a complex containing ammonia.
    Umm... First off, you said, and I quote, "Plants prefer nitrates and do not easily use ammonia" which I simply explained is incorrect for aquatic plants. I said that aquatic plants PREFER ammonium, and have to convert nitrate to ammonium in order to utilize it. Secondly, I said nothing about the toxicity of these nitrogen compounds to fish as I was simply correcting your statement so that misinformation isn't being spread. Thirdly, the article does in fact discuss how plants have problems using nitrates: "The energy required for nitrate reduction is equivalent to 23.4% of the energy obtained from glucose combustion. Thus, if nitrifying bacteria in biological filters convert all available ammonium to nitrates, plants will be forced—at an energy cost—to convert all the nitrates back to ammonium.". Lastly, I NEVER said anything about fert manufacturers being wrong. The reason that we dose nitrate is because it's safer for fish. Honestly though, if I had a plant-only tank, I would dose ammonia instead of nitrate so that the plants don't have to use up energy converting the nitrate to ammonium. You must have just skipped the entire article and went straight into defensive mode instead of trying to learn some valuable information written by an incredibly respected member of the hobby.

    EDIT: Sorry, I missed your last point. If you read back, I've been very specific in that they readily consume ammoniUM, which is an ion in solution and more abundant than ammoniA at the pH that we keep our tanks, and very readily consumed by plants.
    Last edited by funkman262; 01-14-2013 at 03:19 PM.

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