lfs has some apistogrammas, have some questions

**wagz** · 12-20-2012, 11:01 PM

Hi there,

I have a 75 gallon heavily planted tank. Currently have lf zebra danios, sterbai cory's, zebra otos, threadfin and celebes rainbows, and some blue eye forktail (furcata) rainbows, still small. I recently purchased 2 german blue rams. Think they are both males. A little chasing, nothing lethal. Anyway my lfs has just gotten in some apistogramma: cacatuoides, agassizii double red, and trifasciata blue. They are young and not too colored yet. Sexing may be difficult, but not impossible. I was hoping to get two pair, probably the cacatuoides, along with the agassizii double red, but may the trifasciata blue. Questions are will there be issues with my other fish? Is this too many with the current blue rams. Do you recommend just one additional pair? I would wait to see how one pair does, but these go fast and they can't get them often. Also, not interested in breeding at this point. Any suggestions and which species?
Thanks,
Doug

**madagascariensis** · 12-21-2012, 01:20 AM

3 pairs of dwarf cichlids likely will work in a heavily planted tank, but avoid the trifasciatas though. they grow to 2/3 the size of the rest and probably will be slaughtered.

**KevinVA** · 12-21-2012, 01:33 AM

Be careful! I just dealt with this recently (and found a dead Apisto today).

I started out with two Apistogramma cacatuoides triple reds (male + female). They were very peaceful and got along with every other fish in the tank. I had absolutely no problems with them and they were such beautiful fish (my favorites).

Recently (a few weeks ago), I added two German Blue Rams. Over the first two weeks, they acclimated well and were doing fine in the tank. They were actually pursued the first couple of days, but that subsided after everyone else got used to them.

Over the last few days, I noticed that my Apistos haven't been around as much. They used to be such showy fish, but now they were hiding. I saw the male the other day, hiding in a rock cave, so figured he was establishing territory (and know Cichlids to take to rock caves) - figured it was normal. Yesterday, I didn't see the male at all, but found the female hiding behind my driftwood.

I didn't know what to make of it, because I didn't notice any stressors in the tank. The GBRs seemed fine, just as the rest of the fish - everyone got along pretty well, and previous to this week, the Apistos and GBRs would feed together. Now the Apistos were all but gone.

Today, I came home to a dead male Apisto, lying on the substrate (out in the open). I was taken aback, because he was one of the bigger fish in the tank (next to the Gourami and my female Golden Wonder Killifish). The GBRs are 2/3 the size of him. I looked at him and he didn't have any blemishes or signs of stress, besides a gaping mouth. I removed him and gave him a toilet burial and proceeded to watch my fish.

That's when I noticed the bullying. My male GBR would chase everything in the tank - it didn't matter the size. He chased my Serpae tetras, chased my Golden Wonders and the other GBR. It was at this time, that I realized there must have been some territorial disputes in the tank... and this is a 75gal heavily planted tank, with plenty of hiding places and visual blockages.

I tried to find the female Apisto and saw her hiding along the side of my rock cave. She had what seemed to be a sore on her belly, so I assume she's been attacked/stressed, as well. I went back to watch the GBR and it wasn't long until the Apisto went back into hiding.

I have nowhere to put the GBR at the moment, so I'm going to leave him in the tank for now... It was very disconcerting, because I was of the mind that a big enough tank with enough hiding places would be enough territory for the two Dwarf Cichlids.

Moral of the story? Be careful and if you're going to have GBRs, make sure you have equally as aggressive Cichlids - the Apistos were very communal. Didn't have an aggressive bone in their body.

**mizzoutank** · 12-21-2012, 02:55 AM

I had pretty much the exact same experience as kevin, cept mine was in a 45gallon heavily planted.

i dont imagine if i had an extra 30gallons it would have helped.

my experience-those two cichlids do not mix.

**Indian Woods Angels** · 12-21-2012, 12:29 PM

They set up territories about the size of the base of the 75 gallon tank. The territories can overlap for possibly two males after that it's not easy to predict.
I would only have two males of any of those types together.

**KevinVA** · 12-21-2012, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by Indian Woods Angels

They set up territories about the size of the base of the 75 gallon tank. The territories can overlap for possibly two males after that it's not easy to predict.
I would only have two males of any of those types together.

2 GBR males, you mean?

**Sandz** · 12-21-2012, 03:04 PM

I have had success with multiple cichlids in a 75gal tank. However I dont really recommend it for the same reasons listed above. You never know what will happen. Appisto Cac's will be really peaceful compared to a gbr. The female is really small compared to male. Agazzii's will be ok though. Honestly I would put 2 pairs of Appisto's instead of any GBR's...

**KevinVA** · 12-21-2012, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by Sandz

I have had success with multiple cichlids in a 75gal tank. However I dont really recommend it for the same reasons listed above. You never know what will happen. Appisto Cac's will be really peaceful compared to a gbr. The female is really small compared to male. Agazzii's will be ok though. Honestly I would put 2 pairs of Appisto's instead of any GBR's...

That's what I wish I did. =/