unexplained Emperor pleco death

**Crispy** · 11-16-2012, 03:45 PM

could easily be any of the above. just wanted to comment on the phosphates. not saying they are what caused any deaths, but if you want to reduce phosphates, use some RO water for your water changes. half RO and half tapwater is a good combo for your new water if you wish to reduce phosphate.

regardless, phosphates are usually not the cause of fish deaths. usually you will just get an algae bloom when phosphates are high. more algae will eat more phosphate and it can level itself out after awhile.

**fishmommie** · 11-16-2012, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by Crispy

could easily be any of the above. just wanted to comment on the phosphates. not saying they are what caused any deaths, but if you want to reduce phosphates, use some RO water for your water changes. half RO and half tapwater is a good combo for your new water if you wish to reduce phosphate.

regardless, phosphates are usually not the cause of fish deaths. usually you will just get an algae bloom when phosphates are high. more algae will eat more phosphate and it can level itself out after awhile.

Thanks - I have 0 phosphates in my tap water (just checked it) so I suspect the reason I have them in the tank is because I'm probably over feeding. Always an issue for me. But again, I think much of the problem in my instance is concern over the pleco getting food because of my greedy BP and Angel and Sev - and let's not forget the congos.

Have been watching the tank a little closer. I think I might have a bully angel fish. NOT to the swimmers but to the pleco. He's been hanging around the filter intake tube where the pleco is hiding on the back. So maybe he's my culprit. Maybe that's why the emperor hid all the time and perhaps the angel got him?
Or is that unlikely?

In any event, I'm hoping my LFS will take the royal back since I just got him Tuesday and let me trade him for something else.
Think I'm done with cats of any kind in this tank. Sad to say ...

**~firefly~** · 11-16-2012, 05:13 PM

Have you done a few large water changes just in case it's contaminant in the water?

Or are you sure it's the angel bully?

I know that whatever tanks I keep in the future, I'll not be keeping DGs or angels. For such delicate looking fish they are real horrors.

**fishmommie** · 11-16-2012, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by ~firefly~

20 minutes doesn't seem long enough to me for the dechlor soak. I recently went to an aquascaping seminar where the speaker described how he regularly cleaned his CO2 pipework (all glass). He soaked them in bleach solution and used brushes on them. Then soaked them for 24 hours in several baths of water and decholrinator (at about 3 or 4 times the strength).

I wonder if any of your ornaments was slightly porous, and thus, soaked up some of the bleach. 20 minutes (I would imagine) would not be enough to neutralise this.

This is very scary. And could certainly explain what happened. The rocks are all very hard (redundant, I know) and do not appear to be porous but, what do I know. It could very well have been the issue. If so, I'm doubly sad because that means I killed the fish.
I just dumped 2 capfuls of Prime into the tank just to be on the safe side in the event there's still some chlorine from the bleach in the tank.
Thanks, Firefly

**~firefly~** · 11-16-2012, 05:19 PM

I'd take out everything you soaked in bleach and soak it in hot dechlor-heavy water overnight (in case it releases any more).

Do a 75% water change today and again tomorrow. Hopefully that'll prevent any more being affected (if it is contamination). And if it isn't then you have nothing to lose.

What a pain this is, sorry to hear of all your troubles.

**fishmommie** · 11-16-2012, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by ~firefly~

Have you done a few large water changes just in case it's contaminant in the water?

Or are you sure it's the angel bully?

I know that whatever tanks I keep in the future, I'll not be keeping DGs or angels. For such delicate looking fish they are real horrors.

No, I haven't done a W/C yet but I did dump in some Prime. have had apts on and off today and may not be able to work in a W/C until this evening.

And no, I'm not sure the angel is the bully. He's fine with all the other fish. And I may be tagging him as a villain for no good reason but he is the only one of the others hanging around the intake tube where the royal just happens to be. so if there IS in fact a villain, he's my prime suspect. He's a gorgeous, social fish and I'll take the pleco back before I take him out. So don't label all angels as bad fish LOL. I really love this guy - or girl

**~firefly~** · 11-16-2012, 05:22 PM

Oh I know they're not all evil. I've kept several myself in the past and some were ok. But when they have an attitude it tends to go homicidal!

**fishmommie** · 11-16-2012, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by ~firefly~

I'd take out everything you soaked in bleach and soak it in hot dechlor-heavy water overnight (in case it releases any more).

Do a 75% water change today and again tomorrow. Hopefully that'll prevent any more being affected (if it is contamination). And if it isn't then you have nothing to lose.

What a pain this is, sorry to hear of all your troubles.

I do appreciate the suggestion but wow, it seems a bit extreme. All the other fish are fine and it's been a full week since I cleaned things. I don't know ... I need to think about this. Those are drastic water changes and I'd hate to mess up the good balance I have in the tank. One other time when I did such drastic W/C, I killed an angel. So ... hum and again, I need to think about this. But I do appreciate the suggestion

**Crispy** · 11-16-2012, 06:08 PM

plecos are armour plated and like little tanks. I doubt an angel could bully him to death. I would look elsewhere for the cause....hmmm...

**escamosa** · 11-16-2012, 06:42 PM

This is going to be one those mysteries I think. I have my doubts whether the bleach solution is what killed the pleco. If it WAS the bleach, then in my opinion there would be more ill fishes in the tank by now, and it would of been doing some kind of damage a long time ago. It just seems strange that it took a week to kill a fish, and it was only one fish. Not saying that this isn't possible, but I do have my doubts.

The way that you feed your fishes, and what you've told me that their diet consists of is telling me that he definitely didn't starve or had any issues relating to his diet.

Your water conditions are always really good.

And there's a big possibilty that the Angel could be a big enough bully to even kill a Pleco, especially a smallish one. All the armour in the world can stop the fish from getting actually hurt, but it won't stop the stress from constant beatings or bullying.

This is a tough one to give a definite answer to, but if it was me in this situation, I'd be looking at the Angel. Only because no other fish in the tank has died (from the possible bleach solution), AND you've seen it hovering around where the Pleco used to rest, AND you've seen it chasing other fishes.

Really sorry, Cindy.