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Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. Default How much air to provide?


    0 Not allowed!
    200 liter/52 gallon tank NOT planted. NOT fully stocked (see stock in signature line).

    Have OVERKILL on filters now due to combining three tanks into one tank (all filters now on one tank). Most of those filters also provide oxygen. In addition, have one Eheim bubbler rated for 200 liter tank with TWO TUBES working in SAME TANK.

    Recently had disease and had to raise temp with salt. Therefore, provided extra oxygen---hence eheim bubbler BOTH tubes working in SAME tank (before one tube each in two different tanks).

    Another bout with a second round of disease stimulated much increased research on all the diseases/illnesses that can afflict fish.

    Discovered "air bubble disease" caused by OVER saturation of gas in water. Geez!! Didn't know that was even possible! Thought one filter good = more filtration even better. Figured same principle with oxygenation: thought little oxygen good = more oxygen better.

    Now wondering, how do I know just how much oxygen to provide for the fish when NOT sick and how much to provide when they ARE sick???

    So sorry if this is another dumb question folks!!
    50 gal - finally fish! 11 pangio kuhli loaches, 10 neon tetras, 4 zebra danios, 3 cherry barbs, 3 guppies
    10 gal - temporarily closed
    5 gal - temporarily closed

    Proverbs 11:14 & 15:22 -- Thanks for your help!

  2. #2

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Most of us don't use bubblers at all and maybe add a small one if you raise the temp in the event of illness.
    8 tanks running now:
    1x 220 gallon, 2x55 gallon, 1x40 gallon long, 1x29 gallon, 1x20 gallon long, 1x5.5 gallon, 1x2 gallon
    Gouramis, barbs, rasboras, plecos, corys, tetras, fancy guppies, swordtails, ottos, rainbow shark, upside-down catfish, snails, and Max and Sparkles the bettas.

  3. #3

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Glen Arm. MD
    Posts
    2,635

    Awards Showcase

    Happy Christmas - MuckyFish thanks for advising on vegetables for my kribs! so here is a discus - ScottishFish You help a lot - PhillipOrigami For the bank account, and thx for the rep - Cliff beautiful discus! - Crispy 
    I know this doesn't help but it's all I can do! - chrisfraser05 for all the wise advice you've given me - fishmommie Congrats on 2000th post! - andreahp Merry Christmas! - fishmommie Merry Christmas - Cliff 
    Thanks for the rep :-) - ~firefly~ appreciate it. - fishmommie Thanks for the birthday wishes - mommy1 ٩(̾●̮̮̃̾̃̾)۶ - korith For all the good advice you give. - ~firefly~ 
    Thanks for the rep the other day - Cliff thanks for the rep points.  appreciate it - fishmommie happy friday! - mojosodope Merry Christmas! - ~firefly~ Thanks for the rep! - steeler1 

    Smile


    0 Not allowed!
    Extra air (added oxygen), often in the form of bubbles from some type of air stone, is sometimes required but most times is just used to give a nice visual effect.

    In an aquarium, oxygen saturation is highly dependent on water temperature. The warmer the water, the less oxygen (this is not a simple linear rate - oxygen levels can drop fast with water that is just ten degrees warmer.) So, discus, for instance, will often need extra air not only due to their large size but much warmer water - these large fish should be kept between 84 F and 88 F.

    Bio-load both from fish and bacteria (filter, waste in/under the substrate) can have a very heavy impact on dissolved oxygen levels. A good reason to vacuum the substrate and, rinse the filter free of heavy debris.

    Relative to dissolved levels of oxygen for the bio-load, this is mostly a judgment call but there is a lot of room for error. Yet, in an critical animal requirement, it is always better to error some on the side of extra, not less. Of course, many fish (but some will not) will struggle at the surface if the oxygen levels get very low. Note the 'very' part of this statement.

    Often, levels that cause problems that are not severe could still exist and not be notice since the fish will act normal. For this reason, extra surface agitation or even an air stone may be a good idea.

    As the case in aquarium keeping, the simplest and lowest cost solution is just to under stock (yet, most of us prefer as many fish as we can safely hold!)

    By the way, many people are confused about air bubble disease - it is mostly caused by a build up of nitrogen and this is not caused by bubbles in the water but in a fish's blood. Some illness can cause bubbles in the swim bladder. The main issue is if the fish is being 'covered' by bubbles on a routine bases - not likely by most airstones. Besides, water has a maximum amount of oxygen that can be dissolved and no amount of air stones or filters can change that - so, it appears that the issue is not too much oxygen dissolved in the water but rather the number and size of bubbles in the tank. A single air stone and filter could never cause issues for the average tank ... .
    Last edited by Cermet; 05-02-2012 at 12:51 PM.

  4. #4

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    My filter doesn't provide any agitation to the surface of the water because of how I have it positioned so I have a small corner bubbler. If I were medicating my tank, I probably wouldn't change the set-up because there's already enough oxygen in there.
    46 gal fw tank with black skirt tetras, neon tetras, spotted corys, cherry barbs, otoclinus, snails & 4 amano shrimp - plastic & live plants
    5 gal QT
    Remember: Our job is to take care of the water our fish live in

  5. #5

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Adding oxygen to the tank is alsways standard practice when medicating or raising up the tank temp. Medication and high heat both deplete the oxygen and why more is introduced. And it can then be removed after. Gas bubble can also come from water changes.

    I'm sure the filters of that little 5 and 10 gallon didn't do much of anything and many of us run another small filter for when we need to se up a quarantine tank. Just remove the bubblers now if you don't want to use them.
    Last edited by Lady Hobbs; 05-02-2012 at 12:58 PM.

  6. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Thanks everyone.

    The trouble is....I like having all those bubbles! Nice effect of bubbles, and sound. Ohhhh so peacefull look and sound! And the pangio loaches just love to play in the bubble streams!! So funny to watch! On a practical side, if can leave the extra bubblers in even when healthy, and don't need add more when temp is high or medications, then that much simpler for later if need to raise temp and add meds.

    My tank is DEFINITELY not overstocked.....and never will be. And all the fish are small like neons. The biggest fish are the fatso loaches!

    In any case, sounds like I might have too much bubbles. Each of the filters has an air tube to combine air into the filtered water--using those tubes, along with BOTH tubes of the Eheim bubbler. Too bad there isn't some sort of test to take and a guide to follow up with like there is for ammonia/nitrite/nitrate in water!!

    So I'll probably remove some of the air bubbles somehow (either one of the eheim tubes or the air tubes on the filters).

    Please write if you think of anything else helpful on that topic. Thanks folks!
    50 gal - finally fish! 11 pangio kuhli loaches, 10 neon tetras, 4 zebra danios, 3 cherry barbs, 3 guppies
    10 gal - temporarily closed
    5 gal - temporarily closed

    Proverbs 11:14 & 15:22 -- Thanks for your help!

  7. #7

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Glen Arm. MD
    Posts
    2,635

    Awards Showcase

    Happy Christmas - MuckyFish thanks for advising on vegetables for my kribs! so here is a discus - ScottishFish You help a lot - PhillipOrigami For the bank account, and thx for the rep - Cliff beautiful discus! - Crispy 
    I know this doesn't help but it's all I can do! - chrisfraser05 for all the wise advice you've given me - fishmommie Congrats on 2000th post! - andreahp Merry Christmas! - fishmommie Merry Christmas - Cliff 
    Thanks for the rep :-) - ~firefly~ appreciate it. - fishmommie Thanks for the birthday wishes - mommy1 ٩(̾●̮̮̃̾̃̾)۶ - korith For all the good advice you give. - ~firefly~ 
    Thanks for the rep the other day - Cliff thanks for the rep points.  appreciate it - fishmommie happy friday! - mojosodope Merry Christmas! - ~firefly~ Thanks for the rep! - steeler1 

    Smile


    0 Not allowed!
    Having air bubbles running in plastic tubes driving filters has near zero impact on free bubbles in the main aquarium volume. Air stones are another matter but you would need a lot of them to get enough bubbles to be an issue for fish as long as the fish are not picking up bubbles on their skin and most the free volume of the tank is bubble free, there is zero risk from having bubble walls in the tank. Maybe a picture of your tank would clarify the situation. I really think you are worried about a non-issue.

  8. #8

    Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cermet
    I really think you are worried about a non-issue.

    Well said Cermet. Wendy, please don't take offense, but I think you're worrying about for no reason again.
    When in doubt, do a water change.

    "This ain't rocket science!"

  9. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cermet
    as long as the fish are not picking up bubbles on their skin and most the free volume of the tank is bubble free, there is zero risk from having bubble walls in the tank.
    Yep, I myself used to have a so much surface agitation and an air stone running in a small tank that microbubbles were clinging to the fish... so basically you'll know when you've gone too far
    120g SW mixed reef (see profile for equipment info) RBTAs, Shrooms, Zoas (new!) and fish..... and two fat cats
    "The seaweed is always greener in somebody else's lake." -Sebastian the crab

  10. Default


    0 Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by Taurus
    Well said Cermet. Wendy, please don't take offense, but I think you're worrying about for no reason again.

    Hey folks.....don't worry about me taking any offense!!

    Not only have thick skin from living in several different countries and adapting to several cultures, but I prefer to be told exactly what to do, even as if an idiot, than do the wrong thing and fish suffer or die. Prefer MORE information than not enough, even if it would appear to you to insult my intelligence because I should already know it.

    The only thing I would take serious offense at is implication I don't care about my fish or make no effort to do my own research....because both would be totally untrue. And even then, I would rather you risk offending me by telling me straight forward your thoughts and advice than I not learn something because you were afraid to tell me!! Anyway, easier to recover from an offensive post than a dead fish!!

    So don't worry!! I NEED YOUR ADVICE AND EXPERIENCE TO MAKE THIS HOBBY A SUCCESS!!! And determined not to give it up despite challenges and mistakes!!

    Can't attach photo now, but will be happy to attach one later of the tank. Maybe even a video better on you tube. There are quite many bubbles throughout the tank. Tank is rather ugly right now without much decor though, since recently battled ick a second time (or misdiagnosed and it was actually some other illness) only three days after adding my fish to the tank. I still don't want to put more decor back in there until sure no more illness will crop up, tank is stable, and confident with cleaning and water changes (the more decor the harder to vaccuum substrate and risk bad water and disease returning)!!
    50 gal - finally fish! 11 pangio kuhli loaches, 10 neon tetras, 4 zebra danios, 3 cherry barbs, 3 guppies
    10 gal - temporarily closed
    5 gal - temporarily closed

    Proverbs 11:14 & 15:22 -- Thanks for your help!

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