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04-26-2012, 12:15 PM #1
Tank size for fancy goldfish, and also ammonia burns
I got a lionhead and a black moor from someone who sold me a tank, and tried to keep them with 3 common goldfish in a pond, but had to separate the fancies from the others, as the bigger commons were nipping at them. I had to use eggcrate to keep them separated, which has worked, but I feel bad that it limits the commons' swimming area. Oh, the pond is 150 gallons, so I figured the two fancies had an area of roughly 50 gallons to do their swimming.
So I'd like to transfer them into a home tank, but wanted to double check what I had heard. Would 20 gallons for the first goldie, plus ten for the second be correct, so that I could use a 30gallon tank? Is double filtration enough (i.e. a filter rated for 60 gallons?) or would I need better than that?
As to my question about ammonia burns: I think the lionhead has them, having developed black on about half of one of her swimming fins, and a little on the tip of her tailfin. But the ammonia in the pond never went above 0.5 that I now of (the very first 50% water change I did, I didn't test the water first).... are they just that sensitive? (I used Seachem Stability and squeezings from 2 of my tank filters in cycled tanks, but I guess it was not quick enough to really jump start the cycle, curses!) I can't check how the black moor looks, but the commons don't have any black markings. Once there is zero ammonia forever after, do these markings go away?
Last edited by cideon; 04-26-2012 at 12:19 PM.
04-26-2012, 12:20 PM #2
On the Ammonia burns, please read my article on Human Error. A link to it is in my signature line under Fish 911. It contains all the symptoms and treatments. Don't think you described a burn, but would have to see a picture to be sure. Just sounds like black pigments.
On the Goldie Tank, I would aim as high as you can fit into your home/budget. Goldies can still get very large and can live a very long time. I would aim higher in the neighborhood of 40+ gallons for your Goldies. Then purchase a good canister filter for the tank, for the larger biofilter capacity.
Most importantly, I would leave the Goldies in the pond at the moment; while doing a fishless cycle on the new tank/when you get it.
Please read the link below on Fishless Cycle, in case you've never done one.
04-26-2012, 12:41 PM #3
I will check out the article later on, thank you :] I hope that is the case, then it would be better for the goldies.
I will see if I can manage the transporting of a 40 breeder ( I like the extra width/depth/distance from front to back in that size), but the hard part of this is that I have to carry the tank by myself, and I'm not so sure I could do it. I will mess around with the tanks in the petstore to check though, but after more researching online, I am glad that at least 30 is the safe minimum.
I will check out the canisters... they puzzle me, but hopefully they have good instructions, heh. I haven't managed a fishless cycle as my very first tank, I could find absolutely no plain ammonia anywhere (only ones with fragrances and detergent), and didn't see the tips about using fish food before. How much fish food do you think I should use to get one started with a sponge filter I've had operating as a backup in a cichlid tank? The cichlid has been cycled (after the first, I usually switched filter media or squeezings to jumpstart the nitrogen cycle in new tanks, which always worked with the exception of the pond, perhaps becuase it was so much larger?) for over two years, with both the HOB filter and the sponge running continuously. But I'm worried about underdoing it, and the ammonia/nitrite eating bacteria dying of starvation, or overdoing it and blocking myself for longer.
04-26-2012, 12:55 PM #4
Well, on the Canister front, I found the assembly of the Rena Xp3 very simple and straight forward. Though, found using a bit of vaseline on the connections for the hoses, to make it even easier.
On ammonia, places like True Value should have some. Never actually done a fishless myself, but it's better for the fish. (only cycled a few tanks before)
Never tried decaying fish food and think it would be hard to control Ammonia level.
If carrying a 40 gal breeder is a weight issue, and you have the extra funds, then a 40 gallon acrylic is tons lighter and feels more solid. Can say that since, I carried a 50 gallon acrylic on my own, no issues.
04-26-2012, 02:27 PM #5
I agree with bignellm about the fish food (like flakes) - I wouldn't try using fish food as an ammonia source - you have no idea how much to put in to get the ammonia reading you want - I would think it would be too tricky, although I have heard of some people doing it by throwing some raw shrimp into the tank wrapped in something which will start to rot.
I've seen Ace Hardware recommended or sometimes dollar stores carry pure ammonia - whether or not there's dye in it, it should shake up like it's water.46 gal fw tank with black skirt tetras, neon tetras, spotted corys, cherry barbs, otoclinus, snails & 4 amano shrimp - plastic & live plants
5 gal QT
Remember: Our job is to take care of the water our fish live in
04-26-2012, 03:29 PM #6
04-26-2012, 04:27 PM #7
No Ace Hardware or True Value stores here, darnit. The dollar stores and similar stores only had the foaming ammonia too, argh.
Having only glass aquariums now, I never even thought about acrylic! that's genius, because I could get a bigger one than a 30 if the petstore has it! :D You've no idea how exciting this is, hahaha, thanks!
I did read that the max size is ten inches, but that's it's rare. Will suggest this to my mom as she keeps an eye on my pond, so that when I move, maybe she'll be OK with me getting a new one for the commons, and leaving that 150 for her so the lionhead and moor can have it all to themselves ;] Then I could just setup a simple community tank with whatever tank they'd have in the meantime, heh heh.
Thank you for all the advice! Will check out petstores for options today! Payday is tomorrow, so then I can start all new setup next week.
04-26-2012, 05:05 PM #8
Np, always glad to help. Also think you'll be happy caring around that Acrylic, well much more than a Glass one. Just be prepared for it to cost a little bit more than glass.