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Nick89
09-26-2007, 01:57 AM
Well, I have finally decided what i wanted to get. The Red Devil. Not only are they aggressive and have a nice color they can be kept in a 55 gallon. Now, what type of substrate I should be getting? How should a red devil tank be decorated? Any type of information you have about red devils, I'm ready to take notes.

TowBoater
09-26-2007, 02:03 AM
Substrate is your own personal preference. Decor is also but remember, these fish get big and need a lot of room.

Nick89
09-26-2007, 02:05 AM
Yeah, all i plan on doing was getting maybe some rocks he can hide in or driftwood. No live plants, or fake.

Drumachine09
09-26-2007, 02:09 AM
You will want at least one cave for him/her to hide in. Maybe a few fake plants to give it something to "play" with when it gets bored.

Nick89
09-26-2007, 02:10 AM
Ok cool, im pretty sure the one i watch every week is a male, hes the prettiest one and biggest one out of the bunch. What could i keep in with it? Or is he the only one in the tank?

Lady Hobbs
09-26-2007, 02:10 AM
Red Devil Cichlid


Scientific Name
Grows to:
Temp Range
Number to Buy
Hardiness: (http://www.elmersaquarium.com/10hardinessrating.htm)
Cichlasoma labiatus
14"
70-80
1 or more
A
General: A interesting, colorful and aggressive cichlid. They are quick growing and like to dig in gravel. Juveniles can be kept in groups, but adults are best as singles. Adults are very territorial, they will defend their turf against newcomers- especially fish that are of similar body shape. Adult males usually develop a hump head. They often change color as they grow. Keep adults in big tanks with other big fish.
Diet: Like most cichlids they will accept a variety of foods such as cichlid pellets, cichlid flakes, frozen foods, krill. To maintain the best color feed some live food and Hikari Cichlid Gold Pellets. Feed young fish 2-3 times daily. Adults can be fed once a day.


You need to keep looking. A 14 inch fish can not even turn around in a 55 gallon which is 12 inches wide.

Giant fish need giant tanks!

Fishguy2727
09-26-2007, 02:10 AM
Gravel, size and color is up to you. I woudl go with the standard size in a natural color. Estes' shallow creek regular is probably my favorite.

Decor should be sparse and functional. I would stick with one or two PVC pipe T-connectors of appropriate diameter (just big enough to comfortably swim through). Rocks, plants, wood, etc. will trap debris. This is the last thing you need in a big cichlid tank.

Diet: NLS only.

Heater: Stealth. Very good possibility that any glass will end up in shards on the bottom with a current in the tank or tripping the circuit breaker. Stealth heaters are shatter-proof thermal plastic. They also look better than other heaters.

Filtration: Ideally one or two Fluval 405s. One FLuval 405 and one AquaClear would also be very good. Two Large aquaClears will also probably be good enough.

Air pump: I would add an air pump. Azoo brand air pumps are very good. My cousin has the largest and one outlet is running an 18" bubble wand by itself with a nice fine mist. I would use ceramic air stones (Rena makes nice ones).

Fishguy2727
09-26-2007, 02:14 AM
I go by fishbase.org, they have red devils listed at under a foot. I would expect a foot out of them. I have not heard of any over a foot (even in massive properly maintained tanks that would allow it).

Red devil is definitely solo. They will kill anything in their territory, especially in a relatively small territory like a 55.

Nick89
09-26-2007, 02:14 AM
Lady Hobbs, everyone here has said they get to 12 inches.... not sure why it says 14..

TowBoater
09-26-2007, 02:16 AM
Hobbs, I think that is if you have like a 500g tank that they get that size. I figure he is looking at a 10" or so fish, bout like a jack in size. I agree on caves. I would feed frozen and cichlid pellets. I think you said 2 penguin 350's is what you are using. I also recommend a bubble wand and air pump. Stealth heaters are the only way to go.

Nick89
09-26-2007, 02:19 AM
So its ok to use 2 Penguin 350's. And the heater i have is a visi-therm 250 watt. How much the stealth heaters run for?

Edit: Fishguy said the penguin 350's arent good enough. I might go with just a fluval canister then.

Fishguy2727
09-26-2007, 02:25 AM
I would not use Penguins. The BioWheels are great, but that's about it. You want more mechanical media than that. You also don't want to use carbon. Carbon can remove trace elements and micronutrients vital for long term thrivability. This can lead to HLLE and other long term problems. Since the cartridges on Penguins are premade so they include carbon, are not great with mechanical, and expensive, I would definitely pass on the Penguins. If you want to use HOBs go with AquaClears. Preferbaly get a canister. I woudl suggest a Fluval 405.

Stealth heaters should run about as much as other high quality heaters. Retail it should be in the high 30s. You can save a bit though by buying the heater and filters online.

Nick89
09-26-2007, 02:27 AM
Yeah the fluval 405's are 200 big ones here at a nearby petco. Think my 250 watt heater i have now will be ok?

Lady Hobbs
09-26-2007, 02:27 AM
Well, aren't we right back to the same agrument as we were with the Oscars. If a 12 inch Oscar is too large for a 55 gallon tank, wouldn't a 12 inch Red Devil be?

Fishguy2727
09-26-2007, 02:31 AM
Oscars can hit 15-18", that is the problem with them. I think red devils are maxing out a 55, but if done right, which it seems is the intention and ability here, can be done and allow them to thrive.

The Fluval 405 is expensive, but it is worth it. If Fluvals weren't that good I would not have so many. You can get them online for cheaper.

The heater will be okay for now, but as he gets much size on him you will need the Stealth. I would say have a Stealth in there instead by the time he hits about 6".

Nick89
09-26-2007, 02:35 AM
Well, aren't we right back to the same agrument as we were with the Oscars. If a 12 inch Oscar is too large for a 55 gallon tank, wouldn't a 12 inch Red Devil be?

Cant we just drop it already please? We know an oscar cant go in a 55, because they get to about 14''. the red devils get about a foot, maybe less. So they can go in a 55.

Nick89
09-26-2007, 02:36 AM
Oh and for the filtration fishguy, will a fluval 405 be enough?? i dont make a whole lot of money (im 18 not too many high paying jobs lol). I didnt want to buy a HOB filter right now.

Fishguy2727
09-26-2007, 02:44 AM
The Fluval 405 will be very good. If money is the constraint, just add one of the filters later when you can afford it. These recommendations are keeping a full grown red devil in mind, not just the little 3.5" guy he will be at first.

She is just concerned, as we all are. If we didn't think it was important we would not post about it. Size is a concern and her source has a size listed that conflicts with a 55.

Nick89
09-26-2007, 03:01 AM
you're right. i wasnt trying to be rude or anything. You know whats funny is, even on this website in the tropical fish species and you click r for red devil, its listed as a Peaceful cichlid. Lol.. i think that should be changed.

crackatinny
09-26-2007, 08:25 AM
From experience with mine, I agree a cave is a must, My gravel ranges from about pea size and a little larger, he loves to pile this up in a corner, I also have plastic plants, as he loves to move these around to.

Nick89
09-26-2007, 08:31 PM
Hey crack think you could provide a tank shot and a shot of your fish?

crackatinny
09-26-2007, 11:06 PM
Hey crack think you could provide a tank shot and a shot of your fish?

Its in TOTM, as well as the members tank pics thread (link is in my sig), don't let the fact that I have mine housed with other fish steer you in the wrong direction though, it is a large aquarium 120G

Nick89
09-26-2007, 11:21 PM
Ive heard people putting an arowana in a 120-125 gallon tank. Is this true? And nice tank, looks like you have some red bellied pacus??

crackatinny
09-26-2007, 11:24 PM
Ive heard people putting an arowana in a 120-125 gallon tank. Is this true? And nice tank, looks like you have some red bellied pacus??

Thanks Aquakid, there has been a large cave put in place of the log on the left since pic was taken.
Not real sure about the Arowana's, I think they need an even bigger tank.
They are actually silver dollars in my tank.

Nick89
09-26-2007, 11:27 PM
Cool tank, cool fish. I just hope the red devil i saw and like at the store around here is still availble. It will be awhile considering i dont even have water in my tank, no filters not even substrate. THen i have to wait for the tank to be cycled. Hes the only one i really liked so i might have to go with a different option. If he isnt there.

crackatinny
09-26-2007, 11:34 PM
How reliable is the store?, perhaps you could put a deposit on him to be held for you.

Good luck with the new setup:thumb:

Nick89
09-26-2007, 11:41 PM
Thanks man. And i think its a privately owned store, not like a petco. But it will be a long time before i can even get a fish.. Lets try to figure it out. Gravel: could get within this week or next. Then for filtration, im going to go with a fluval either 305 or 405 probably the 305. Then the decor (not much maybe a few rocks he can hide) that could take a few weeks along with the canister filter. THEN i got to cylce it, which could take up to a few weeks. He could be good as gone by then which would really suck because hes awesome.

gm72
09-27-2007, 12:42 AM
Ive heard people putting an arowana in a 120-125 gallon tank. Is this true? And nice tank, looks like you have some red bellied pacus??

Oh, it probably is true, but disgusting practice. There is a fish shop about 45 minutes from here and they have one in a custom 600 gallon tank, he seems pretty happy in that.

Nick89
09-27-2007, 01:01 AM
So people have put arowanas in 125 gallon tanks? It's probably just as bad as putting an oscar in a 45-55 gallon.. But Either way, its sad to see such a large fish crammed in a small tank ..them arowanas get huge. And they arent easy to care for.

Edit: i had put large tank, i meant to put small.

CAF
09-27-2007, 01:05 AM
So people have put arowanas in 125 gallon tanks? It's probably just as bad as putting an oscar in a 45-55 gallon.. But Either way, its sad to see such a large fish crammed in a small tank ..them arowanas get huge. And they arent easy to care for.


Actually they very easy to care for. BIG Tank, lots of tasty swimming little fish to eat, and LOTS and LOTS of water changes.

And yes a 125 is WAY too small for an arrowana unless it is still a baby

Nick89
09-27-2007, 01:06 AM
yeah.. 125 is a 6ft tank right?? arowanas get to be 4' maybe more.

CAF
09-27-2007, 01:08 AM
yeah.. 125 is a 6ft tank right?? arowanas get to be 4' maybe more.

3' to 4' depending on the exact species. While they do have long supple bodies, they begin to have problems turning around at around 2' in a 125

And yes a 125 is 6' long

Nick89
09-27-2007, 01:10 AM
Ok i dont mean to go off topic But i have been really wondering something. How do you get your username in a different font? and how can you change from "senior member" into something else?

CAF
09-27-2007, 01:11 AM
Go to User CP
Edit Shop Options

Nick89
09-27-2007, 01:12 AM
Oh, and the arowana ive seen was around maybe 2-3 feet long. All he did was swim around the tank didnt do anything else just swim towards the top and then turns then swims, then turns when the tank stops then swims then when the tank stops he turns and swims etc. I mean it was kind of boring but he was cool looking.

Nick89
09-27-2007, 01:14 AM
Ok then where do i go? im a little lost.

deckard_wa
09-27-2007, 01:17 AM
[QUOTE=Fishguy2727]Oscars can hit 15-18", that is the problem with them. [QUOTE]

I'd be interested to know what you are using as a reference for this. 99.9999% of all the hundreds of Oscars I have seen have maxed out at about 11-12" I have never seen one even approaching 18", that'd have to be some kind of record surely?

Red Devils, on the other hand, can get well over a foot long if properly cared for. I have seen many, many fine examples that were easily 15-16"+.

Sure they can live in a 55g, but I do not believe that they can thrive in there. These smaller RDs you speak of would have been IMHO kept in less than ideal conditions, which has kept them small, same goes for Oscars really.

JDs, GTs, Firemouths, Convicts, Blue Acaras, Salvinis, Green Texas/Pearlscale(Carpinte), Severum, Festivum, just off the top of my head are all fantastic New World cichlids that do great in a 55. Why would anyone, put an unsuitable fish in there when there are such wonderful alternatives? I see this on other sites I visit too. Have we really become so selfish? Sorry to rant but just because you CAN do something, doesn't always mean you SHOULD.

Nick89
09-27-2007, 01:20 AM
What? How am i selfish im just asking people what they think and most people said that red devils are good in a 55, I didnt know, im fairly new to most of this.

CAF
09-27-2007, 01:30 AM
Ok then where do i go? im a little lost.

see if this link works

http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquariumforum/vbplaza.php?

Fishguy2727
09-27-2007, 01:32 AM
I base it off of the ones I have seen, the ones I have heard of (only from reliable sources), and online resources. The extreme, exception to the rule ones are the ones that are over 20", which has happened from what I understand. I have definitely seen oscars well over a foot. The reason so many don't get there is because so many end up with another oscar, two pacus, and a common pleco in a 55 with a Whisper 60, nothing but goldfish as food, and no water changes. Most are in far from ideal conditions, which contributes to why so few hit their potential. For red devils, I started at fishbase.org, which listed them at about 10". I have seen them at about 12" or so, but not much bigger. I don't know how many get much bigger than that, but from my experience not many do, although I am not doubting that some do. As with the 18-20"+ oscars, I would consider these the exception to the rule, not the guide to go by.

In my opinion in general the largest fish that should be in a 55 is a 12" fish. If properly cared for they can thrive. For a 55 an even better option would be fish that do not reach this limit, such as the cichlids listed.

deckard_wa
09-27-2007, 01:33 AM
What? How am i selfish im just asking people what they think and most people said that red devils are good in a 55, I didnt know, im fairly new to most of this.

Mate I never said that you are selfish, I said that a lot of boards I go to have people putting unsuitable fish in the wrong tanks, purely because they want to, which I would have thought was the very definition of selfishness.

I realise that you have just come here for help, and if you misunderstood then I apologise for offending you, but I have read this whole thread just now, and in all honesty, neither Os nor RDs do as well as they should in 55g tanks. I don't know where they get their information but the sizes quoted to you do not match up in any way to my experience of these fish. There is a world of difference between living and thriving, and they are not always obvious to see, but are there nonetheless. Personally I would never put either of them in less than a 6' tank as I like to see them at their best, but that's just me, I couldn't sit there and look at them knowing that I might be harming them. If all I had was a 55, then I'd have a look round at what I could put in a 55, and I'd find that there are some truly magnificent creatures that would love to live with you.

As I said in an earlier post, I believe a Green Terror would fit the bill for you, they're awesome, but you can do what you want

Nick89
09-27-2007, 01:56 AM
Ok i misunderstood and I apologize. Also Green terrors get sort of ugly when they reach full size no? What else could i put in with the green terror?? Again sorry for the misunderstanding.

deckard_wa
09-27-2007, 03:46 AM
Green Terrors are one of my all time favourite fish for looks, but i agree beauty is in the eye of the beholder :ezpi_wink1:

As for tankmates, I for years kept a GT in a 55 with a Red Tail Black Shark. I'm told this shouldn't have worked, but after about 2 weeks of flaring at each other etc, things settled down. They were never friends but never tried to kill each other, and the colour and shape contrast was amazing. When the RTBS is happy, the black and red colouring is so vibrant that I believe it's the closest you can get to SW colouring in a FW tank. just make sure it has a secure home to retreat to thumbs2:

There's plenty of other possibilities too but I'm sure you're aware that with cichlids there are no guarantees. Tell us what you like and we can see how we go :thumb:

deckard_wa
09-27-2007, 06:15 AM
I base it off of the ones I have seen, the ones I have heard of (only from reliable sources), and online resources. The extreme, exception to the rule ones are the ones that are over 20", which has happened from what I understand. I have definitely seen oscars well over a foot. The reason so many don't get there is because so many end up with another oscar, two pacus, and a common pleco in a 55 with a Whisper 60, nothing but goldfish as food, and no water changes. Most are in far from ideal conditions, which contributes to why so few hit their potential. For red devils, I started at fishbase.org, which listed them at about 10". I have seen them at about 12" or so, but not much bigger. I don't know how many get much bigger than that, but from my experience not many do, although I am not doubting that some do. As with the 18-20"+ oscars, I would consider these the exception to the rule, not the guide to go by.

In my opinion in general the largest fish that should be in a 55 is a 12" fish. If properly cared for they can thrive. For a 55 an even better option would be fish that do not reach this limit, such as the cichlids listed.

I don't doubt what you are saying for a second, but it does raise a question, that I have pondered over many times.

In your part of the world, Os get much, much bigger than they do here, whereas RDs stay smaller than here. I often wonder just how little do we really know about what goes on in our tanks? Your water is obviously different to mine, and then the east coast of Australia will be different to here, and the UK and Europe will be all different again. I wonder how much we are affecting our fish without realising it, and this is a perfect example. Water here seems to be better for keeping RDs in than Oscars, whereas for you it seems the opposite is true, since we are both stating facts based on what we have seen this must be the case.

Anyway, I feel like I'm hijacking so my apologies to the OP

Nick89
09-27-2007, 11:44 PM
Well, what other aggressive fish (or a big enough fish that can reach 10'' and eat feeders) besides cichlids?? I know there are a lot of options..

CAF
09-28-2007, 12:08 AM
Well, what other aggressive fish (or a big enough fish that can reach 10'' and eat feeders) besides cichlids?? I know there are a lot of options..

Some species of cats will fall into that category as will alot of bichirs

Nick89
09-28-2007, 12:25 AM
id like a pictus but they need to be in 75 gallons. What type of cats?

CAF
09-28-2007, 12:32 AM
id like a pictus but they need to be in 75 gallons. What type of cats?
Honestly I'd have to direct you to Planet Catfish to check the Cat E-log... there are just too many species I know nothing about.

Nick89
09-28-2007, 02:04 AM
I was looking around my LFS and i found some cool looking fish, they are called Spotted Green Puffers. Any news on these guys?

Ocellatus
10-18-2007, 09:44 AM
here is one of my 5.5" red devils. very aggressive fish, he's able to kill my 8" female oscar easily.
also i've attached a photo of this fish for 7 months ago, compare them :)

robmc125
10-21-2007, 02:16 PM
Well, hello there. I could help you with that one. To me it depends on the size that you get, if you get fairly small ones then nice size rocks, some plants, maybe some wood branches. Not to on the decorating side, because they are going to build the tank the way they want it.

robmc125
10-21-2007, 02:34 PM
hey, there I have, well my best friend has one that I gave him 11 years ago when it was just a baby. This fish is 12 or better, weighs between 5-7 pounds it looks like and he lives in a 55. As soon as I get these pics on, your going to be amazed, he has the biggest crown that i've seen on a fish of this species.

Ocellatus
10-21-2007, 02:53 PM
wow 12 years and huge bump! i can't wait to see him.

Ocellatus
11-02-2007, 08:57 PM
just some pics of my failure to pair them off!!
poor yellow!