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SueD
10-14-2012, 06:48 PM
A couple of questions if I were to pull the eggs on a future spawning. I have both a sponge filter (not yet seeded) and air stone. Are both needed at the time the eggs are first removed to the new tank? Or just the air stone until there are free swimming fry, then I add the sponge filter?

If I were to use hydrogen peroxide instead of methylene blue, how much would be needed for about 3 gallons? And am I correct that this would have to be added each day (but methylene blue only once) until there are wrigglers?

How long should the sponge filter be in the main tank to be considered "seeded"?

Thanks for any assistance.

Lady Hobbs
10-14-2012, 09:00 PM
I don't how how 3 gallons would even work. How would you even raise them in that? But generally the tank is set up with a seeded sponge filter, the slate, wood or whatever they spawned on moved into the breeder, fungal remover added. I can't answer on the peroxide.

Aeonflame
10-14-2012, 09:49 PM
The sponge filter should provide adequate circulation. I Have never used peroxide. There are commercial preparations you can buy if you dont want to use the meth blue

SueD
10-15-2012, 12:54 AM
They wouldn't be raised in the 3 gallon; this is just until free swimming. Looking on the angelsplus web site, they use one gallon jars for the eggs until free swimming, then the fry are moved to anything from 2.5 gallon to 10 gallon, depending on the amount of fry. They talk about an air bubbler in the jar and a sponge filter in the larger tank when the free swimmers are moved. I wasn't sure if I used the sponge filter in the smaller jar/tank with the eggs if it would mess with the peroxide or methylene blue.

I'm still in the stages of thinking through if I want to try this or not. As angels will do, they are spawning regularly and so far I've just left the eggs with the parents. They always spawn on a leaf of a larger anubias so it would be easy to pull. I had free swimmers just once on their third spawn for about 3 days until they picked them off. Since then, they haven't got beyond wriggler stage, and twice the eggs were gone within a day.

I'd rather see the parents raise a spawn, but it looks like my pair have regressed in their parenting skills rather than advanced. If I take on trying to raise a spawn, I'd make sure I was properly prepared for each move.

Indian Woods Angels
10-15-2012, 01:58 AM
The sponge filter initially has organisms that will eat the eggs.

Use a very clean 2.5 gallon tank, add tap water at 82F, add half a capful of Amquel, add a capful of HP, swish, wait 5 minutes. Pull spawn, place into 2.5. Place a sterile piece of hose into tank and aerate, it does not matter if it hits the eggs or not, a fair bit of a flow of air but not drastic, about as much as the fry would tolerate. No redose here. When the fry break the casing add a well seasoned sponge filter, do not water change even if the water clouds, the change shocks the fry. The sponge will convert the ammonia and not shock the fry. If the ammonia level got too high the fry are done any way. Once the fry become mobile and can move add a few snails to eat the extra food.

Have fun.

This works on all egg layers BTW.

SueD
10-15-2012, 12:16 PM
Thanks so much - very clear. Can I use Prime in place of Amquel, or does Amquel have something extra beneficial in it?

They just finished off a spawn so I have a couple of weeks to get ready for the next.

mommy1
10-15-2012, 01:04 PM
The sponge filter initially has organisms that will eat the eggs.
.

This makes me curious how so many of us can get eggs to hatch in our tanks if the filters have organisms that will eat the eggs.

Indian Woods Angels
10-15-2012, 02:33 PM
I use Amquell.

I don't like Prime for my water. It does not need it.

Indian Woods Angels
10-15-2012, 02:44 PM
This makes me curious how so many of us can get eggs to hatch in our tanks if the filters have organisms that will eat the eggs.


It comes down to efficiency. I pull a spawn and use this technique to hatch and raise 500 eggs and get 475 fry. All fertilized eggs will hatch as there are no bacterium nor micro invasives present to consume the valuable fats of the eggs. In a tank I would not get 50 or so. And so from an efficiency stand point this method gives the best results. This method also does not burn the gills and cause curling or chipping due to exposure to the methylene blue, it does not cause organ problems from the methylene blue and it can not sterilize the fish like acriflavine can. H2O2 is also completely non toxic and does not harm the environment, the extra oxygen atom evaporates into the air, the other chemical compounds remain in the water and even water treatment of the sewerage has a difficult time removing them and so you will have them introduced into the water ways and eventually they end up in us.

I specialize in angelfish that express the trait of albinism. In a parent raising situation these fry would be lost as they are disadvantaged in visual capacity. I also develop sports or mutations of traits and expressions within the various spawns, under parent raising conditions the parent fish will automatically cull many of the sports or random expressing fish.

mommy1
10-15-2012, 03:16 PM
Thanks for the explanation. When my texas cichlids spawned I had a few 100 fry from it, I never saw the eggs but I know they are capable of a couple thousand per spawn. Your method is fairly typical of what a breeder would do to get the most out of each spawn and I understood why the jar, aeration, and H2O2, but was more curious as to what was living in the filter. Bacteria and micro-invasives was the obvious answer, but I guess google will give me specifics.

Indian Woods Angels
10-16-2012, 12:00 AM
In most cases it will be planeria and other detritus eaters that like egg fats and don't stop at the thin casing to get them.

Dave Waits
11-25-2012, 10:30 PM
Along with treating the water and the airline I would suggest setting a small bag made from a new pair of pantyhose full of peat right by the opening to the airline. Doesn't have to be much,maybe 2 Tablespoons of peat. This will keep fungus off of the eggs until they hatch, then remove the peatbag and install the well-seeded sponge filter using the same airline.

after the fry eat their eggsack and start feeding, you have to setup a 20 gallon 'Growout tank' to move them into. You have, at most, maybe three weeks to do this.So, you'll need more than one seasoned sponge filter. After they eat the eggsack, baby brine shrimp or Daphnia make a good feed until they are old enough to take prepared foods.