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View Full Version : lost ma krib, any suggestions as to what went wrong?



kimmers318
06-11-2006, 02:34 PM
I have a 29 gal that had a pair of kribs, 6 glolites, a juvie albino bristlenose and 3 kuhlis. Everything had been fine for a couple of months, with no new inhabitants since I added the bristlenose in April maybe. The water here is hard with a high ph (8.0) so I started the tank with a mix of 1 gal RO to every 2 gal tap water. When I did find some kh/gh testers they were only the strips but they were reading 300ppm on both, and ph was still testing 7.6-7.8 when it originally read 7.4. There is a piece of bogwood. My aquarium pharmaceuticals test kit has a low range and a high range drop tester for ph, and unfortunately, if I test the same water in both tests I can get a reading on both! (Am currently looking for a tester that can test a wider range for more accuracy, plus drop tester for gh/kh) Since the little knowledge I am able to digest on kh/gh led me to believe that the high kh/gh readings were allowing my water to raise the ph because the the buffers were too high I started doing water changes with 1/2 and 1/2 mix of RO/tap water. Over about a month with weekly water changes of around 5-6 gals the gh/kh came down to the current readings of gh=75ppm and kh=120ppm which according to the guide is soft and at the low range of ideal.
On Wed. I noticed ma krib acting lethargic and sluggish....later that day she was gasping at the surface. I checked water stats am=0 nitrites=0 and nitrates=0, did my weekly water change in case there was something I was missing and I started pimafix in case there was something internal going on. No outward signs of body fungus or damage, just losing brilliant coloring. On Thurs she was still gasping so I isolated her in a specimen container to make it easier for her to relax and dumped out some of the water every couple of hours and added fresh tank water. Second dose of pimafix went into the tank so she was getting the medicine because I kept giving her fresh tank water. The water was being dumped down the drain from specimen container, not back into the tank. By Friday she was almost completely white and we lost her that evening. I am not sure what may have happened here and would like some ideas if anyone has any! None of the other inhabitants have showed ANY signs of stress so far thank goodness, but I want to make sure I am not missing anything. I believe that all of the above inhabitants like softer water, kribs are supposed to be pretty hardy, and I did what I could to soften the water over a longer time frame thinking I would give them a much nicer home. The kribs had spawned 2X but neither time did we get babies. I am about ready to say the heck with trying to soften the water....go back to using the straight tap water and whoever survives will be the fish I keep!
Could losing her just be one of those flukes, or am I totally screwing something up here? Remember...this is the water/girl that who only has tried aquarium salt 2X to help fish and once I lost the fish,(and they were mollies!) the second time they went nuts until I did a massive water change! Something doesn't seem right here and I am getting frustrated.

rollie
06-11-2006, 03:00 PM
sorry for your lose. it could of been just her time.

it is possible that there is something in your water, that is joining with the salt and forming something new. but i got no idea what.

it been years since i tested my water for to see how hard it is.

my ph ,depending on the tank, anywhere from 6.3 to 8.0.

the breeds of fish you got will live in my water and do great.

kimmers318
06-11-2006, 03:43 PM
Well, straight out of the tap I am looking at 8.0 with gh/kh readings of 300ppm on a strip test kit. I have been trying to get that lower a little at a time for the benefit of the fish. Since I am still not seeing any issues with any of the other fish I am hoping that it was just her time to go. I have read a couple of times that it is quite upsetting for a krib to spawn and not get any babies....could this may have had anything to do with it?
I guess I will just keep doing what I am doing mixing ro/tap water and see what continues to happen. I also mysteriously lost a clown loach a couple of weeks ago in another tank. My next step I am also thinking about is checking the copper in my water. I know we have old pipes in these houses, we have removed some of the copper piping when we have had leaks, replaced hot water tank etc. so maybe I am looking at copper in my water. I don't know. It is getting frustrating to not be able to figure crap out!!!!

rollie
06-11-2006, 04:40 PM
it could be.

a bit of copper is good.

xx amount more is birth control for fish.

xxxx amount more, your fish will die.

some wholesales used copper so we do not get any youngs.

this is what i been told and had read.

kimmers318
06-11-2006, 08:27 PM
So, do you think it might be a good idea to check the copper levels in my tap water? According to the local water report our levels are 1.3 MCLG (maximum contaminant level goal) and that the # of samples they found above that goal were 0...no actual reading for our neighborhood. I don't know...maybe I am just worrying too much here. But I do know our water is HARD, like I said maxing out on the test strips at 300ppm for both kh/gh. Mixing with RO I have acheived levels in the softer range, which should be good. I'll have to do some more research another day. If I am going to lose fish occasionally wether I use straight hard tap, or soften it with RO, using straight tap would definitely be easier for me!

rollie
06-11-2006, 08:53 PM
you can test for copper, but i think it was just one of those things.

William
06-12-2006, 04:56 AM
I doubt that the high kh/gh is your problems as that has been the same without large changes. (it could however be the reason for the problems you have had with clown loaches.)

It could be that it was just her time as Rollie said earlier but checking copper might be a good idea since it can be a potent toxin in large if the levels are high enough.

kimmers318
06-12-2006, 11:09 AM
Okay...in your guys opinion, does it sound like I am doing things right as far as lowering the gh/kh with RO/tap mix? I love my mix of fish in all of my tanks and would like to continue with them, so if it sounds like I am on the right track I will stay on it. I suppose there could be a slight issue with the fact that the tank started at 7.4, apparently went up to 7.6-7.8 which was probably (from what I can understand with my research) the fact that with the high gh/kh the buffers in water just bring it back up, and then I started to lower it again by adding less buffers with water changes. This slow swing could probably have added to my unexplained loss. I know that most of the time I see single digit numbers for gh/kh readings from people, but since I am currently using test strips my readings are ppm, and I can only go on what is on the bottle until I find the correct testing kit. A trip north might be called for today! I am sure that store which is awesome will have what I need, it just sucks to have to drive so far with 4 kids! I will also pick up a copper test kit just to see.
Next question....my male krib is all alone and I don't think I am going to go thru purchasing a few females again to find him a mate and then have to return the unwanted females, so do you think he will be okay by himself and not start going after the other inhabitants? I know they are best in pairs, but starting the so called dating scene with him again isn't something I wish to do right now. If it will stress him too much I may just take him to the local petsuppliesplus and see if they will take him to let someone else give him a new home.

rollie
06-12-2006, 11:23 AM
your male krib should be okay. there others fish for company.

AQUARIUM PHARMACEUTICALS INC. make very good test kits.

i, myself would not get the ones that used the paper strip.

get the other type, that what i used.

kimmers318
06-12-2006, 12:02 PM
I need to FIND them! The only thing I don't like about the aquarium pharmaceuticals test kit is the fact the there are 2 separate tests for lower or higher ph....from the same tank water I can get a reading match in both test kits! Which is why I am saying my ph is currently 7.6-7.8 in the tank being discussed, because if I test with both kits I get a read on both! Go figure.
I did think of something else a few minutes ago relating to the heavy metals that could possibly be in the water. I have read that some water conditioners neutralize heavy metals along with removing chlorine/chloramine, so this might be an option to try. I have always used stress coat for chlorine removal, and am not about to get rid of it just yet since I have had good luck with it helping the fish themselves when they had to fight off ick or fin nips, but if another water conditioner might help neutralize some of the possible water issues I am having I will look into that. Any suggestions?

rollie
06-12-2006, 12:27 PM
stess coat will neutralize heary metals!!! sacham make very good test kits and other stuff. my API ph kit test from 6.0 to 7.6.

sera also make some very good test kit and others stuff.

William
06-13-2006, 01:17 AM
How quick does the pH raise again?

kimmers318
06-13-2006, 02:44 AM
Tank started in March with RO/tap mix that read ph of 7.4...didn't have gh/kh testers at the time. Now it is 7.6-7.8, probably closer to 7.8 since I don't think I should even get a questionable read on high ph test kit if it was a true match to 7.6 on low test kit. Was testing weekly and getting good match saying it was 7.4-7.6 for the 2 months and not until I started wondering what the heck was wrong with ma krib did I decide to check ph in both kits at the same time to see if it was reading higher. A few weeks ago was when I picked up the gh/kh test strips since I hadn't ever seen the liquid ones yet (and had no luck again today.....gonna have to order online doggone it!) and even though I know they aren't as accurate reading at the highest reading sounded an alarm so I switched to the 1/2 1/2 mix. It took about 3 water changes to see the readings come down to kh=120 gh=75. What that works out to on the tests that give single digit readings I don't know but the range is kh 0-40ppm low 80ppm=moderate and 3 different color readings for what they consider ideal ranging from 120ppm-300ppm. The gh range is 0-25 very soft 75=soft 180=hard and 300=very hard. Tank is currently reading kh=120 gh=75, so if it stays that way with th 1/2 1/2 mix (which is what I am hoping) I will continue.
Maybe I am just worrying too much and it was just ma's time. She tried to spawn, it didn't work, she was adult sized when I got her so no telling really how old she was, but I can't see the supplier keeping her around for years unless she had been a breeder and they decided to dump her off when she was getting old. The other fish are still doing well, and pa is back to eating normally. He did go into a slump for a couple of days where he picked at food and chased other tankmates a little, but seems to have settled down and adjusted to the fact that there isn't going to be a girl for him!
Thanks, also, Rollie, for the tip on the stresscoat....I did reread the bottle and see that later in the day myself. Just trying to figure out what the heck I could have done wrong....but I think I will stop blaming myself for awhile and continue to watch closely.

William
06-13-2006, 02:59 AM
Breeding is a critical time and a failed spawning can cause problems. especially if the male wanted to breed again directly after the failed spawning.

kimmers318
06-13-2006, 12:23 PM
I have heard that also about the spawning. I also wonder if I didn't get siblings since although bought at 2 separate times they were from the same store and same delivery. I know siblings can breed with fish, but my personal opinion would be to avoid it, just as I would not breed with any of my siblings or cousins....to me it just ain't right!

rollie
06-13-2006, 12:30 PM
in order to get new colors, they breed, father to daughter and so forth.
so that should not be it.
william should be able to explain it , better than me.
there in, out and line breeding just to name a few.

William
06-13-2006, 05:17 PM
Fish are more resilient than humans to inbreeding so you can breed on sibligs as long as you introduce new blood in the strain every 3 generations or so.