Teacup Stingray died.

[timk]

Hi. I've had a 140 gallon aquarium for about 6 months. I believe its 48" long x 24" wide x by 30" tall with a 30 gallon sump underneath. Had a freshwater stingray (roughly 4-5" large?) in there for a few months. He was happy and eating well until he died out of the blue last evening. The only thing I can possibly think it is is the liquid carbon (Easy-Life Easy Carbo) I recently started adding. This was the second time I added it (15ml) which is less than is recommended. I have also recently been adding Seachem Flourish trace. I believe he was alive when i came home from work (4ish) I added 15ml of carbon and a capful of flourish. When i woke up he was dead. I would like to get another stingray but not till i find out why he died. Does anyone have any thoughts on whether it was the chemicals or something else?

temp-82
ph-7 (accomplished through seachem Neutral regulator)
ammonia-0
nitrate-0
nitrites-0
2 x 30% water changes weekly
diet- he ate maybe 2 teaspoon fulls of blackworms a day. sometimes frozen bloodworms, even seemed like he was starting to take to cichlid pellets.
tankmates- a ton, but nobody aggresive and i never saw anyone bother him.

I attached a picture of his home.

[smaug]

That's a shame it died! I doubt the carbon was an issue in such a small dose compared to so much water. Now for the news you don't want to hear,don't get another one. 140 gallons though big is not big enough for a fish that will get 10" round just in the body especially when a lot of the bottom is taken up with plants.

[icefreeze57]

Beautiful fish and sweet tank

sorry for your lost

[ldoerr]

Sorry for your loss :scry:

[Crispy]

was there anything noticeable on the ray when it died? disk curl? open wounds?
is that silica sand? was the belly red? gonna be hard to pinpoint exactly what it could have been, but if I had to guess I would say either it was the substrate or the chemicals you have been dosing. not sure I would trust a ph regulator.

[timk]

No open wounds. No red belly. Not sure what disc curl is, but his front was always kinda curled up. Just assumed that was normal. Not sure what type of sand it was. Regular PETCO sand. Not the softest but didn't seem to bother him. I believe I gave him enough room. Pushed all the plants and decor to the side to leave him enough room in the middle. Im wondering if anyone else had bad experiences with liquid carbon. Maybe he was especially sensitive to it. I am going to get a larger tank in about a year. Thanks for any help and sorry about any typos. I'm at work trying to type this on my phone.

[Crispy]

EDIT: moved thread to the ray subforum

is there a reason you use liquid carbon over the activated charcoal kind? I don't hear of many people who use liquid carbon?

[wijnands]

Read the msds, take this to a stingray forum or two. I suspect the chemicals are rleated.

[november]

Aw, so sad! I'm sorry. :(

[smaug]

EDIT: moved thread to the ray subforum

is there a reason you use liquid carbon over the activated charcoal kind? I don't hear of many people who use liquid carbon?
The op means a liquid co2 such as excel.

[Old Marine]

Sorry to hear that your Stingray died.

[timk]

Yeah. I strongly suspect it was the liquid carbon ( used for the plants) also. Just trying to get some good confirmation. Looking for the thoughts from some experts. Should I start a post about liquid carbon and see if anyone has had negative experiences with it?

[FinalJenemba]

I don't know anything about rays but im a little curious why you would use liquid carbon and excel? Generally if your going to dose excel thats about all your going to get out of dosing, I see no need to add another product.

[Cermet]

Very sorry for the loss!

As for flourish, I had that stuff wipe out a lot of fish in a community tank (I confirmed it the hard way when I refused to believe it.) I'll NEVER trust that stuff. For delicate fish, I would not think it is a good idea no matter - even if my events were not related. Why take a chance? If you need CO2, get a tank and bubble it in - that is very safe (within reason.)

[timk]

So are you saying for sure that flourish has carbon in it already?

[smaug]

Very sorry for the loss!

As for flourish, I had that stuff wipe out a lot of fish in a community tank (I confirmed it the hard way when I refused to believe it.) I'll NEVER trust that stuff. For delicate fish, I would not think it is a good idea no matter - even if my events were not related. Why take a chance? If you need CO2, get a tank and bubble it in - that is very safe (within reason.)
I have used excel on many sorts of planted tanks with fish such as bgk and wild caugjht angels. Never had a death from it. to answer op,yes,excel is a carbon source to give a sort of co2 to plants. In such a tiny,,and I do mean tiny dose as you did,Im certain that wasnt the killer. You could dump15 ml of bleach in a 140 gal tank and not harm anything if the perspective helps.Not that I would try it:sconfused:
for cermet. Co2 injection is hardly that safe unless it is very well set up and monitored,I cant think of a better way to nuke a tank then to have a huge ph drop and o2 depletion from a regulator failure and a large co2 dump into the tank.
for general knowledge,seachem flourish is a simple liquid fert,seachem excel is a liquid carbon co2 replacement.

[timk]

Good to know the difference. I think ill give rays one more shot. Anyone know how much food a baby stingray should be fed in a day?

[smaug]

Your tank isnt big enough,give something more appropriate a try.And as I take a 2nd look at your tank,you can skip the liquid carbon as the plants you have are mostly slow growers without a need for much co2.

[timk]

Smaug,
Thanks for the advice. I'm going to be upgrading to a larger tank probably late winter. I'm looking to grab a baby right now. The tank is 48" wide by 24" deep with the decor pushed to the sides, driftwood hung from the ceiling, and the center completely cleared out. Don't you think that's enough room for like 6 months. I can't imagine that if I get him at like 4 1/2 inches he'll outgrow it that quick.

[Crispy]

healthy rays grow very quickly. they should be given many small meals throughout the day because they have extremely high metabolism rates and are always on the hunt for food and always producing ammonia.

btw, there is no such thing as a 'teacup stingray'. it's just a gimmicky name for baby rays used by petstores to sell fish. looks like your first ray up there was a hystrix.