Hi from Oregon and Schooling Goldfish...

[kathylynndean]

Good morning from Southern Oregon,

I have been trying to find pictures and info about "Schooling Goldfish" on the Internet and I could not help but notice through "Google Search" that this site says there is no such thing! LOL...Yes there is!

Last month I had the pleasure of capturing my goldfish schooling. The big guys schooled one morning, and the smaller fry schooled the following day. I am going to estimate somewhere between 5 and 10 thousand fish, all from about 100 feeder-fish eight years ago.

For some pictures of the larger fish in schooling formations please see below. Keep in mind they school "in-place" with heads up and tails down and ignore all food...and me! The largest goldfish in my pond are about two feet; most big females are about 14 to 18 inches. Predation is via Great Blue Heron, Kingfisher and occasionaly an Osprey.

Thanks so much and enjoy...Kathy

http://s1059.photobucket.com/albums/t433/kathylynndean/Schooling%20Goldfish/?albumview=slideshow

[ScottishFish]

looks like they are all just following the one at the front looking for food.

Welcome to the AC :22:

[Lady Hobbs]

Welcome to AC.

I was thinking the same thing. Or one of those Herrons are too near them and they are fleeing from it. Nice pond, tho.

[SMcGrath]

Welcome to the AC....:22: You will find everyone here very helpful

[kathylynndean]

Welcome to AC.

I was thinking the same thing. Or one of those Herrons are too near them and they are fleeing from it. Nice pond, tho.

:goldfish:

I think all you guys are just joking around; at least I hope you are! If fish see a Great Blue Heron they retreat from near the surface to the bottom of the pond or one of numerous hiding spots. The heron is a stealthy fisher and just phenomenal to watch. They can remain perfectly still until the fish “think” they are gone. They then move in lightning-fast speed to grab their meal. They can either uncoil their neck for the strike, or dive into the water. I have a heron nest on my property and I wish I didn’t!!!

The Kingfisher calls out in advance of hunting, so the fish always know that one is around. They immediately hide upon hearing the call. With the Osprey the fish don’t have a chance. Osprey sit high in tress so can see their dinner, but they overfish and will leave dead fish around. I cringe when all three types of birds are fishing but it’s a necessary cycle of nature. I can assure you none of these birds were around for the two hours I took these pictures and hundreds of others.

LOL…No the fish are not hungry!!! That’s pretty funny. In fact I tried feeding them during schooling and they won’t eat. Besides the natural food available, they eat dry cat food and cracked corn. They love flour tortillas and white bread. When schooling they “swim in place” with their head up and tail down; kind of like a fishy dog-paddle. No “one” fish leads like someone said. In all fish species, just like birds, the “lead” fish alternates positions. If you study schooling as I have been doing, you will learn that they are very gregarious fish and schooling is a showing of happiness, good health and is a community bonding experience. Also, it takes the correct (whatever that is!) population for the goldfish to school. This is the very first time they have done this in the eight years I have had the pond.
My fish are up to about two feet in size, (females only of course) and the small-fry schooled the following day. You won’t see many small fish in these pictures. This proves that “age” has nothing to do with the schooling instinct, but if you are a tiny fish-fry, you don’t want to hang out with the big-guys and get eaten! I have never witnessed a bigger fish eating a smaller fish, but I am sure it happens. These fish just finished spawning last month and I know a majority of the eggs get eaten. Thank goodness! The spawning takes about one month and on some days you can actually see a film of sperm on the water.
The solid black fish are a different species but they are schooling with the goldfish. The water is fresh and clean and I stopped using any chemicals and filtration about 5 or 6 years ago. It is “well” water and has a 24/7 small recirculation unit and is refreshed almost daily. I next to never get floaters, and if I do see one, it’s a wounded fish from predation. Maybe once every two months I will see a dead fish. The fish share the pond with all sorts of wild ducks and a yearly pair of Canadian Geese that nest on my small island. We have mild weather in southern Oregon but some winters the fish live under ice for over a month. They don’t seem to eat during this period; at least nothing I give them.
Hopefully this explains some things, and if you have any questions, please ask. It is not common to capture schooling since most goldfish populations are not in the thousands. Please do enjoy…Kathy

[ScottishFish]

We were only expressing our opinions. You mentioned its unfiltered, I get the idea you water is unoxygenated and they could just be gulping for air.

I've seen what a large school of large fish look like. But just looks like they are acting like sheep and following the leader :22:

[kathylynndean]

We were only expressing our opinions. You mentioned its unfiltered, I get the idea you water is unoxygenated and they could just be gulping for air.

I've seen what a large school of large fish look like. But just looks like they are acting like sheep and following the leader :22:

LOL...Come on...I know you are jokinjg!!! It's impossible for a fresh water pond to be oxygen deprived. Especially one with a waterfall that runs 24/7 as mine has. Plus if thousands of fish are schooling in dozens of different formations at the same time (did you look at the pictures?) they can't be following a one leader. Plus if thousands of fish are gulping for air some are going to die!!! So I know you are just joking around but I sure don't understand why. Plus filters in ponds don't add oxygen. Plus fish don't act like sheep...LOL. :hmm3grin2orange:

If you are going to joke around at least come up with something that makes sense as to what the fish are doing...like maybe they are cartoon fish?

Best wishes...Kathy

PS...If you are serious with your comment, which I really don't think you are, please research "Fish and Schooling". You will see similar formations, etc. and will learn about the subject...Thanks...

[kathylynndean]

ACK!!! No wonder I am getting goofy replies! I put this in the wrong forum. Sorry about that...Kathy

[kathylynndean]

NOTE: I accidently posted this under "Indroductions" the first time around:

Hello from Southern Oregon,

Last month I had the pleasure of capturing my goldfish schooling. The big guys schooled one morning, and the smaller fry schooled the following day. I am going to estimate somewhere between 5 and 10 thousand fish, all from about 100 feeder-fish eight years ago.

For some pictures of the larger fish in schooling formations please see below. Keep in mind they school "in-place" with heads up and tails down and ignore all food...and me! The largest goldfish in my pond are about two feet; most big females are about 14 to 18 inches. Predation is via Great Blue Heron, Kingfisher and occasionaly an Osprey.

Thanks so much and enjoy...Kathy

http://s1059.photobucket.com/albums/...view=slideshow

This is an answer to someone who said they were just hungry or running from birds:

I think all you guys are just joking around; at least I hope you are! If fish see a Great Blue Heron they retreat from near the surface to the bottom of the pond or one of numerous hiding spots. The heron is a stealthy fisher and just phenomenal to watch. They can remain perfectly still until the fish “think” they are gone. They then move in lightning-fast speed to grab their meal. They can either uncoil their neck for the strike, or dive into the water. I have a heron nest on my property and I wish I didn’t!!!

The Kingfisher calls out in advance of hunting, so the fish always know that one is around. They immediately hide upon hearing the call. With the Osprey the fish don’t have a chance. Osprey sit high in tress so can see their dinner, but they overfish and will leave dead fish around. I cringe when all three types of birds are fishing but it’s a necessary cycle of nature. I can assure you none of these birds were around for the two hours I took these pictures and hundreds of others.

LOL…No the fish are not hungry!!! That’s pretty funny. In fact I tried feeding them during schooling and they won’t eat. Besides the natural food available, they eat dry cat food and cracked corn. They love flour tortillas and white bread.

When schooling they “swim in place” with their head up and tail down; kind of like a fishy dog-paddle. No “one” fish leads like someone said. In all fish species, just like birds, the “lead” fish alternates positions. If you study schooling as I have been doing, you will learn that they are very gregarious fish and schooling is a showing of happiness, good health and is a community bonding experience. Also, it takes the correct (whatever that is!) population for the goldfish to school. This is the very first time they have done this in the eight years I have had the pond.

My fish are up to about two feet in size, (females only of course) and the small-fry schooled the following day. You won’t see many small fish in these pictures. This proves that “age” has nothing to do with the schooling instinct, but if you are a tiny fish-fry, you don’t want to hang out with the big-guys and get eaten! I have never witnessed a bigger fish eating a smaller fish, but I am sure it happens. These fish just finished spawning last month and I know a majority of the eggs get eaten. Thank goodness! The spawning takes about one month and on some days you can actually see a film of sperm on the water.

The solid black fish are a different species but they are schooling with the goldfish. The water is fresh and clean and I stopped using any chemicals and filtration about 5 or 6 years ago. It is “well” water and has a 24/7 small recirculation unit and is refreshed almost daily. I next to never get floaters, and if I do see one, it’s a wounded fish from predation. Maybe once every two months I will see a dead fish.

The fish share the pond with all sorts of wild ducks and a yearly pair of Canadian Geese that nest on my small island. We have mild weather in southern Oregon but some winters the fish live under ice for over a month. They don’t seem to eat during this period; at least nothing I give them.

Hopefully this explains some things, and if you have any questions, please ask. It is not common to capture schooling since most goldfish populations are not in the thousands. Please do enjoy…Kathy

[Lady Hobbs]

Your fish and pond is beautiful. I have sent your photo to my son who is also building a pond just to show him what a great pond is supposed to look like. LOLOLOL Of course MI winters are much more severe so he's going down 10 ft. I thought I'd make him jealous before he even started.

Something happened to your link.

[kathylynndean]

Your fish and pond is beautiful. I have sent your photo to my son who is also building a pond just to show him what a great pond is supposed to look like. LOLOLOL Of course MI winters are much more severe so he's going down 10 ft. I thought I'd make him jealous before he even started.

Something happened to your link.

Thanks so much! Yes, I tried reinserting the link via edit, but it still does not work. How strange! Here it is yet again:

http://s1059.photobucket.com/albums/t433/kathylynndean/Schooling%20Goldfish/?albumview=slideshow

[escamosa]

G'day, and welcome to AC! :22:

I'm gonna go out on a limb here, and agree with Kathy. Those fish are actually in various schools. Some are, some aren't. And because of the birds that are floating about, just waiting for the chance to grab one for a snack, I would say that that would be exactly why the fish school the way they do. It could very well be some kind of defensive formation that they use. I mean how often do you see a straggling something getting eaten by something on TV? And the fish in Kathy's pictures are only young too, and in a natural environment - very different from a regular pond or aquarium. Could be a strength in numbers kind of situation, until such time as the fish grow bigger and are able to look after themselves, so to speak.

Now, the proper name for a group of Goldfish, is a troubling - not a school. BUT, a school of fish is a shoal that has uniform behavior and swimming patterns, like all fish facing the same direction and swimming in unison. And some of those fish in Kathy's pictures are definitely displaying those things. :ssmile:

[kathylynndean]

G'day, and welcome to AC! :22:

I'm gonna go out on a limb here, and agree with Kathy. Those fish are actually in various schools. Some are, some aren't. And because of the birds that are floating about, just waiting for the chance to grab one for a snack, I would say that that would be exactly why the fish school the way they do. It could very well be some kind of defensive formation that they use. I mean how often do you see a straggling something getting eaten by something on TV? And the fish in Kathy's pictures are only young too, and in a natural environment - very different from a regular pond or aquarium. Could be a strength in numbers kind of situation, until such time as the fish grow bigger and are able to look after themselves, so to speak.

Now, the proper name for a group of Goldfish, is a troubling - not a school. BUT, a school of fish is a shoal that has uniform behavior and swimming patterns, like all fish facing the same direction and swimming in unison. And some of those fish in Kathy's pictures are definitely displaying those things. :ssmile:

Thanks for the reply Escamosa. Some of my comments back don't apply to you so please excuse my ranting!

Oh my goodness; those are decoys, not ducks!!! And no ducks that visit my pond eat any of my fish!!! In fact, the fish nibble at the duck and geese feet and annoy them. This is just too funny; I have never in my life had to explain so many things. I posted this for people to enjoy, so why would you have to go out on a limb? I don’t get it. I have been a member of many forums, but this is the most confusing and frustrating one I have ever joined. I did not say they were a school of fish; I said the fish were SCHOOLING. There is a big difference.

Goldfish are very gregarious and my fish are SCHOOLING for bonding and other purposes. It is NOT a defensive move on their part. I normally don’t even see the fish unless I throw out food or they jump. Again, please read what I wrote. This is the FIRST time they have SCHOOLED in the eight or nine years since I built the pond.

I don’t believe anyone is reading what I wrote. I didn’t post pictures of the YOUNG fish; the small-fry schooled the following day as I already explained. The fish in my picture are OLDER fish, NOT the young ones. Some are over 1-1/2 feet long. This is not just a TROUBLING of goldfish. This is a TROUBLING of common goldfish that is SCHOOLING.

If the fish were in a defensive mode, they would be UNDERWATER. The goldfish are SWIMMING IN PLACE and not moving. I explained that in DETAIL. Please read what I wrote and look at the pictures. If they thought they were going to be eaten, there would be nothing to take a picture of except water.

Every single fish you see in these pictures is either SCHOOLING or ABOUT TO SCHOOL or BREAKING OFF FROM SCHOOLING. My fish normally do not hang-out on the surface of my pond regardless of what this forum thinks. When a fish “Gasps for air” as someone suggested they were doing, you can hear the sucking sound, and you have to get it to a H2O bubbler immediately. It was a party for them that early morning. I stopped using all chemicals after an algaecide removed too much Oxygen from my pond. Believe it or not, I know what an oxygen deprived fish sounds like!!!

Enjoy the pictures and please realize I would not have posted this if I didn’t know what the fish were doing!!! Are all postings challenged? If so, it sure takes the pleasure out of sharing an event…Kathy

[escamosa]

Kathy, I had no intensions of upsetting you with the going out on a limb phrase. From where I come from, it means that i'm going to go out of my way to help you - agree with you - back you up, about the fish schooling, as others were seeming to be in oposition. I apologize for the language barrier! :ssmile: Your ranting is totally excused! :hmm3grin2orange:

I do enjoy looking at those kinds of pictures, and yes, the fish are definitely schooling - i totally agree! That's why I posted up the definition of schooling for the others.

I know ducks don't eat goldfish, but the others that you mentioned sure do! They're the birds that I meant that were floating around - not actually FLOATING around. HAHAHA. And I was only guessing about the defensive thing. I've never kept Golfish like that before. And I didn't realize that ALL of the fish in the pictures were big ones. Some of them look little in the pictures! :ssmile:

It's a beautiful pond! I love it! thumbs2:

[PhillipOrigami]

I think the fact that you have so many have triggered their super-social behavior.
The fact they hadn't in 8 years is strange to me though.
Woah, big pond 0.0

[Brhino]

I think perhaps there is some confusion about the term schooling here.

Schooling of course refers to a specific behavior, and I don't think anyone disagrees that you observed and photographed your goldfish schooling on these occasions.

However on these forums we more often use the term schooling when we are talking about "schooling fish", or "fish that REQUIRE a school for well-being and low-stress living". We see someone keeping a single tetra or loach and we tell them "tetras are schooling fish. For this fish's well being, you need to get more of them or return the one you have". The funny thing is, fish like this will often actually NOT school when you have them in a proper environment, because schooling is a defense mechanism and if they're not feeling threatened they won't bother with it. If something scares them like movement outside the tank or the introduction of something new into it, though, you can bet that they'll school up.

If you approach the term "schooling" with this mindset, then one could interpret your post to mean that you are stating your contention that goldfish are, in fact, a schooling species, with all the implications as noted in the previous paragraph. I don't believe you are making that claim, but it might be how people are reading into it since that's how they're used to dealing with the concept.

Since this is the first time you've ever seen them do it, it seems your own observations agree with the commonly accepted idea that goldfish are not a "schooling species", which makes the fact that they chose to do so anyhow on this particular occasion all the more interesting - hence why people are trying to guess why they did it.

just my two cents. Stunning pond by the way, I'm very jealous.

[kathylynndean]

I think the fact that you have so many have triggered their super-social behavior.
The fact they hadn't in 8 years is strange to me though.
Woah, big pond 0.0

Hi Phillip,

I think you answered your own question. As I said in my explaination, it requires a certain population of fish before they will school. I am not talking about swimming together, or hanging out with each other. I am talking about the much-studied varied pattern of actual schooling. Goldfish are designated as a "Schooling" fish but it is seldom captured.

This is not going to happen in a house aquarium or normal fish pond. It probably happens all the time in larger ponds and lakes but of course no one sees it. Or if they do, they don't have a camera. I assumed people would realize this.

I started with 100 "Feeder Fish" and it took 8 years to reach the proper population. I honestly don't see anything strange about that aspect. It happened before sunup and as I mentioned, they swam in a holding pattern without moving forward. When I looked out my kitchen window that early morning, all I saw was a gold colored pond. I looked again and realized the pond surface was covered with fish that weren't moving!!! I thought they were dead until I opened the patio door and stepped outside.

I have no idea how long they were at it prior to my discovery, but I watched and photographed for almost 2 hours. Just amazing. Thanks...Kathy

[kathylynndean]

I think perhaps there is some confusion about the term schooling here.

Schooling of course refers to a specific behavior, and I don't think anyone disagrees that you observed and photographed your goldfish schooling on these occasions.

However on these forums we more often use the term schooling when we are talking about "schooling fish", or "fish that REQUIRE a school for well-being and low-stress living". We see someone keeping a single tetra or loach and we tell them "tetras are schooling fish. For this fish's well being, you need to get more of them or return the one you have". The funny thing is, fish like this will often actually NOT school when you have them in a proper environment, because schooling is a defense mechanism and if they're not feeling threatened they won't bother with it. If something scares them like movement outside the tank or the introduction of something new into it, though, you can bet that they'll school up.

If you approach the term "schooling" with this mindset, then one could interpret your post to mean that you are stating your contention that goldfish are, in fact, a schooling species, with all the implications as noted in the previous paragraph. I don't believe you are making that claim, but it might be how people are reading into it since that's how they're used to dealing with the concept.

Since this is the first time you've ever seen them do it, it seems your own observations agree with the commonly accepted idea that goldfish are not a "schooling species", which makes the fact that they chose to do so anyhow on this particular occasion all the more interesting - hence why people are trying to guess why they did it.

just my two cents. Stunning pond by the way, I'm very jealous.

Thanks so much Brhino. I think maybe I answered most of this in the message I just wrote above.

Yes, I am making the claim that the goldfish in my pond are "Schooling." And according to everything I have read with the exception of a few places on forums, they are designated as a schooling species. It is just not witnessed and that is the exact reason I posted the pictures. Please Google the topic or just look at Wikipedia.

LOL...I am just exhausted trying to explain this to people and to me it's so simple. Please read what I wrote above about goldfish population and Schooling. It didn't happen before for a reason. Even the fish's spawning this year took twice as long and lasted over one month. They were acting different.

I hope you understand what I am trying to say. I can't keep reexplaining everything because it's driving me insane!!! Thanks...Kathy :help:

[CrunchyLeaf]

Hey Kathy. Your pond and fish are beautiful.

The members here are just interested in discussing your fish and their behaviors. I think that's rather the idea of sharing things with others on a forum, is to get a melting pot of ideas and fun discussion going. We all love fish. We love to keep them, observe them and see their natural behaviors. It is our natural inclination to hypothesize when we see fascinating behaviors. Nobody insulted or attacked you, so please try not to get so upset and defensive when people want to study and converse about your pictures. :14:

[kathylynndean]

Kathy, I had no intensions of upsetting you with the going out on a limb phrase. From where I come from, it means that i'm going to go out of my way to help you - agree with you - back you up, about the fish schooling, as others were seeming to be in oposition. I apologize for the language barrier! :ssmile: Your ranting is totally excused! :hmm3grin2orange:

I do enjoy looking at those kinds of pictures, and yes, the fish are definitely schooling - i totally agree! That's why I posted up the definition of schooling for the others.

I know ducks don't eat goldfish, but the others that you mentioned sure do! They're the birds that I meant that were floating around - not actually FLOATING around. HAHAHA. And I was only guessing about the defensive thing. I've never kept Golfish like that before. And I didn't realize that ALL of the fish in the pictures were big ones. Some of them look little in the pictures! :ssmile:

It's a beautiful pond! I love it! thumbs2:

I am the one that needs to say I am sorry! But I am getting exhausted from trying to explain this. I think I should have captured it all on video, too. I have a lot more pictures; need to look through them and see if there are some that better show the distinctive schooling patterns of the fish.

Thanks so much for your kind words and please do forgive me...Kathy

[kathylynndean]

Hey Kathy. Your pond and fish are beautiful.

The members here are just interested in discussing your fish and their behaviors. I think that's rather the idea of sharing things with others on a forum, is to get a melting pot of ideas and fun discussion going. We all love fish. We love to keep them, observe them and see their natural behaviors. It is our natural inclination to hypothesize when we see fascinating behaviors. Nobody insulted or attacked you, so please try not to get so upset and defensive when people want to study and converse about your pictures. :14:

Thanks so much Crunchy. I really enjoy the pond but it is a lot of work.

I would never get upset about discussing fish behavior with people and have gone out of my way to answer all comments. What is frustrating are negative comments that make absolutely no sense whatsoever and are not based on any facts or information or common sense. I think it is the "duty" of anyone that wants to comment to at least READ what is posted, and LOOK at the pictures and captions. To not do this wastes the time of the person who posted the information, and the forum community. It is also wrong to assume the poster is either lying, or making up stories, or has no knowledge of the subject matter. Also never apply words to peoples actions that do not apply. I don't believe I ever stated that I was attacked or insulted. Frustrated from explaining the same things over and over...YES! That gets old quickly...Kathy

[CrunchyLeaf]

It must have taken a long time to build the pond. I must say I like the size of it and the surrounding landscape. Top notch.

And I just didn't see anyone say anything negative. I saw a lot of conjecture. I do apply words to people's actions, otherwise they would never be held accountable for them. When you accuse someone of lying and converse with them in a very condescending manner, telling them that they need to research what they are talking about just because you don't agree with their ideas, I see someone who is defensive because they feel attacked.

Yes you have answered all the comments and each time included with your answers the sentiment that you wish people would just look this stuff up for themselves if they don't know what they are talking about and how you are fed up with having to address their comments. I don't think anyone here meant to cause you so much work and distress. Perhaps it would have been better to simply compliment you photos, but not offer anything further to the discussion.

[Lady Hobbs]

Since we now have this same discussion going in the Introduction thread as we do in Ponds and also in another thread somewhere, I have merged them all together. Not much point in having this same discussion in 3 different threads.

Kathy, I'm sorry you got so exhausted and exasperated explaining this over and over again. You had only two comments, you know. One of us wondered if perhaps they were rushing towards a food source and the other wondered if perhaps they had gotten frightened. It isn't like you were being drilled on all this information you kept repeating. It is a strange occurrence and we simply wondered what was the reason for this. We all said your pond was lovely.

But honestly, this is a forum and if someone has a question, they do ask. It was not meant to offend or "exhaust" you. Our members here are also not imbeciles because they had a question nor are they to be considered one or talked to as if they are.

Once again, you pond and your fish are lovely. I doubt anyone will have any future questions, tho. Thank you for sharing.

[Brhino]

Yes, I am making the claim that the goldfish in my pond are "Schooling." And according to everything I have read with the exception of a few places on forums, they are designated as a schooling species.

Agree with the first point, disagree with the second. Goldfish may occasionally exhibit schooling behavior, but that does not making them a "schooling species" by our definition of the word: that keeping a "schooling species" in anything less than a properly sized school is detrimental to the health and wellness of the fish. If that were the case, all of us that have a tank or pond with one or two or five goldfish are simply not taking proper care of our fish, regardless of how much space or filtration we give them. Do you believe that to be the case?

[kathylynndean]

It must have taken a long time to build the pond. I must say I like the size of it and the surrounding landscape. Top notch.

And I just didn't see anyone say anything negative. I saw a lot of conjecture. I do apply words to people's actions, otherwise they would never be held accountable for them. When you accuse someone of lying and converse with them in a very condescending manner, telling them that they need to research what they are talking about just because you don't agree with their ideas, I see someone who is defensive because they feel attacked.

Yes you have answered all the comments and each time included with your answers the sentiment that you wish people would just look this stuff up for themselves if they don't know what they are talking about and how you are fed up with having to address their comments. I don't think anyone here meant to cause you so much work and distress. Perhaps it would have been better to simply compliment you photos, but not offer anything further to the discussion.

Hi Crunchy,

Thanks for the compliments and the reply. I appreciate both. But I am still having problems with what I am trying to say. ACK!!!

I am going to break this down and try to get my point across about people reading what a person wrote:

1. Fish are fleeing from predators…If they had read what I wrote they would have noted that the fish are swimming in place and not moving.
2. Fish are just following the leader…If they had looked at the pictures they would have noted that there are dozens of different schooling patterns. This is not just one group of fish.
3. Fish are gulping for air…If they had just looked at the pictures they would have seen this was not so. You have to take responsibility for what you are suggesting.
4. Pond has no oxygen…They did not read what I wrote. I stated it was a healthy pond. I have no reason to lie.
5. Since I have no filter system in place the pond doesn’t have oxygen…Filters have little to nothing to do with the H2O level.
6. Goldfish are not a Schooling Species…Yes they are; it’s scientifically proven.
7. Big predatory birds are hanging around and scaring the fish…Predation is rare and it NEVER happens if I am out there taking pictures. If there were birds the fish would be under water. Plus the fish would be MOVING guys!!! Very quickly in fact.
8. All the fish are hungry and looking for food…I think that is the most ridiculous of all. Again, read what I wrote and realize you are looking at a pond, not a fish bowl.

I could go on with this but I am not. Conjecture has to be based on something, and not something just pulled out of the air. I am at fault for posting “Pond” pictures in the wrong place. Plus this is an Aquarium Site so I probably should not have put this on here to begin with. But with that said I still think that any and all commenter’s have to be responsible and read what is written and not waste a person’s time. Also, ask a “question” or state you "think" something; do not just state something is so. There is a big difference there…Kathy

[kathylynndean]

Agree with the first point, disagree with the second. Goldfish may occasionally exhibit schooling behavior, but that does not making them a "schooling species" by our definition of the word: that keeping a "schooling species" in anything less than a properly sized school is detrimental to the health and wellness of the fish. If that were the case, all of us that have a tank or pond with one or two or five goldfish are simply not taking proper care of our fish, regardless of how much space or filtration we give them. Do you believe that to be the case?

I think I know what you are saying but of course I don't agree. I don't think anyone in the entire world would agree with that. Because dogs run in packs we should have more than one dog? Because fish will school we should get rid of Monterey Bay Aquarium and Sea World? Because Lions form prides we should disband all zoos? No, of course not.

Here is an interesting link on SCHOOLING:

http://guava.physics.uiuc.edu/~nigel/courses/569/Essays_Fall2008/files/olson.pdf

I am asking that people who are going against the scientific consensus that goldfish school, please study the issue. I am not going to argue this point; it's proven. I won't debate a proven fact...Kathy

PS...BTW, it's not wrong to request that people study any given issue. It's an important point in any discussion. If a person is not up-to-date on an issue and making comments, then they should be made aware of what is going on...

[kathylynndean]

Since we now have this same discussion going in the Introduction thread as we do in Ponds and also in another thread somewhere, I have merged them all together. Not much point in having this same discussion in 3 different threads.

Kathy, I'm sorry you got so exhausted and exasperated explaining this over and over again. You had only two comments, you know. One of us wondered if perhaps they were rushing towards a food source and the other wondered if perhaps they had gotten frightened. It isn't like you were being drilled on all this information you kept repeating. It is a strange occurrence and we simply wondered what was the reason for this. We all said your pond was lovely.

But honestly, this is a forum and if someone has a question, they do ask. It was not meant to offend or "exhaust" you. Our members here are also not imbeciles because they had a question nor are they to be considered one or talked to as if they are.

Once again, you pond and your fish are lovely. I doubt anyone will have any future questions, tho. Thank you for sharing.

Hi Lady Hobbs,

Quick note from me...You missed my point. No one was called an "Imbecile". People need to read what is written and look at what is posted prior to making conjecture...Thanks...K.

PS...I already posted an apology for posting in the wrong spots on the forum and realize I did that. Yet again, sorry!!!

[Brhino]

I think I know what you are saying but of course I don't agree. I don't think anyone in the entire world would agree with that. Because dogs run in packs we should have more than one dog? Because fish will school we should get rid of Monterey Bay Aquarium and Sea World? Because Lions form prides we should disband all zoos? No, of course not.

But we do tell people not to keep just one or two tetras, or danios, or loaches, or corydoras, or any other of a number of true "schooling species". It's not healthy for these species. That's my point. There is a difference.

[Lady Hobbs]

Let me get this point across here please. WE DO NOT CARE! This does not need to be driven like an old horse. Point made and thread closed.

This has turned into a total lecure instead of a discussion. Done!