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wfoxx3
05-09-2012, 07:27 PM
I posted earlier to no response but I am assuming that my mickey mouse platy in 5 gallon tank has ich. She has 3 little whitish spots on her tail and is not eating and just sitting at the surface and bottom with fins clamped. She is not scratching on ornaments though but I still think it is ich. If I am wrong, what could it be?

But if it is, my question is best way to treat it as I have seen a lot of different opinions everwhere. And more importantly, my Ammonia levels have been up for a couple of days (.5 today before I did a change) Is it ok to treat for ich with the ammonia levels a little bit up?

bignellm
05-09-2012, 07:35 PM
I've had luck treating Platy with Ich and the unfortunate curse of being in a cycling tank. You can do it.

What I would do is raise the temp of the tank water up to about 82F to 84F. In that range. Add a bubbler stone and air pump if you don't have one. Then I would add salt according to the directions on the container, if you don't have any Cory Cats. This should be enough to kill the Ich, but if it's still not dying by this treatment, you may have to use QuIck Cure in conjunction with the other treatments. If you do, remove the carbon insert in your filter before hand.

While doing all this, keep testing water and doing water changes to keep Ammonia and Nitrite down under 0.5ppm. Keep up the treatment for 7-14 days depending on results of the Ich dying. You might also consider turning off aquarium lights to disrupt the Ich life cycle a bit, making the treatment for effective.

Hope this helps.

PS Ich looks like grains of salt.
And don't use salt treatment if have Cory Cats.

wfoxx3
05-09-2012, 07:46 PM
Thank you. Should I add aquarium salt? And I'm really struggling with identifying if it is ich or not. There are 3 spots on her tail that look whitish with red around it. But her tail is reddish so Idk if the red around it is from her tail. The most noticeable thing is her behavior change..not eating, and just laying around at the surface and bottom with fins clamped. So not sure if it is from the Ammonia or the spots on her tail.

bignellm
05-09-2012, 07:52 PM
If Platy has some red coloring in the tail, then it's a tough call. But if the white looks like grains of salt, then they're most likely Ich.

I just read you have the fish in a 5 gallon, if it's the sole fish or have other Platy in there, I would use salt without question. Platy can take it and I have known from experience these are tough enough to live through even the 3 prong treatment of Heat/Salt/QuIck Cure. But since you have a cycle going on, I would do Heat and Salt, while keeping the QuIck Cure on standby.

PS. If there is a hair like thingy coming out of the whit spots, then we have something completely different.

wfoxx3
05-09-2012, 07:52 PM
And what is the difference between an air pump and bubbler stone or are they the same thing? Sorry I am still new to all of this.

bignellm
05-09-2012, 07:53 PM
air pump just power the air stone. Is one system.

wfoxx3
05-09-2012, 08:02 PM
Yes I just have 1 platy in a 5 gallon so I will raise the heat, add salt, and install a stone. I'm not 100 percent sure but I think it is ich. Will any of this hurt my platy if it doesn't end up being ich? And are the other symptoms I described (clamped fins, no appetite, and not swimming anymore just hanging at the surface and bottom) found with ich? Thanks so much for all of your help!

bignellm
05-09-2012, 08:06 PM
Yes, those are all classic Ich parasite symptoms. At most, the treatment may stress the fish, but really the Ammonia build up from the cycle is far more harmful to the fish. The salt should aid in fish's O2/Co2 exchanges, while boosting up slime coat, while heat should increase metabolism. The Med, if needed will add a little stress, but not as bad as the Ammonia toxicity from the Cycle.

I won't lie to you, from the symptoms, this is a progressed case, but not un-savable. Platy are tough little buggers and can bounce back from this, with the right treatment.

PS. The salt and Heat will have a incredibly negative effect on the Ich parasite. The heat speeds up life cycle, and salt disrupts it's osmosis regulation ability. Also with heat up high enough, it's enough to kill the parasite.

wfoxx3
05-09-2012, 08:41 PM
Great, thank you so much for all of your help. 1 last question. I currently have the heat rising and have installed an air system so should I wait until it is in the 82-84 degree range to add the salt or do it right away? And you said to keep doing daily water changes to keep the Ammonia and Nitrite down, does that mean I would need to add more salt every day or just the amount I am going to add now? Thanks again!

bignellm
05-09-2012, 08:45 PM
Just add the equivalent of what you take out and yes, is good to add salt now.

Say you take 50% Water out. Then when you add the new water, put a half dose of salt in. thumbs2: of what it normally would call for 5 gallons. Normally you would only add the salt one time, but you do have to do water changes, so gotta replace salt levels from what you took out.

wfoxx3
05-09-2012, 09:58 PM
Ok great, thanks again. I just installed the air pump and I have the heat rising and added salt. So hopefully this will do the trick. She actually livened up a bit and was playing around the bubbles, the only down side is it seems to be shaking the water a bit so she has trouble staying still at the surface like the current is too much but she will have to get used to it for the time being. I will update you on what happens.

bignellm
05-10-2012, 12:53 AM
Just remember to keep up the treatment for 7days to 2 weeks. And don't worry, your platy will get used to the new currents. She's just getting her bearings.

wfoxx3
05-11-2012, 03:47 PM
Hey, so I've been doing what you told me and all is the same and unfortunately she is still not eating so I am very concerned about that. But I know it has only been 3 days with the salt so I'm still hoping.

But I've been looking around online and I've been reading about internal parasites and bacterial infections associated with white poop. My platy had been pooping white for a while but I never thought anything of it. Can this be caused by ICH or have I misdiagnosed? She still has the spots on her tail but again it's a tough call.

bignellm
05-11-2012, 03:54 PM
Spots should of fallen off by now, if it were Ich; at the temp increase you were told to do.

Could be they are nothing in that case. But now we have to wonder if the Platy is actually suffering from an internal condition. Not eating, white poop, and clamped fins. This sounds like an internal parasite.

Can you get your hands on Prazipro or Tetra Parasite Guard? Both have the same ingredient, and since your Platy isn't eating, this may be one of the last options. The Tetra Parasite Guard is the last one I used, worked and is fairly low cost.

Do this and prepare some blanched peas. Some frozen pea, microwaved for 30 seconds, peeled, and squished. Being a fancy treat, this might entice your platy to eat some.

I hope this works.

PS, Ich doesn't cause white poop.

wfoxx3
05-11-2012, 03:58 PM
Ok I will try and get some. Are these medications ok with the salt still in the water and the heat up?

bignellm
05-11-2012, 04:03 PM
They will be fine with the salt and heat up. Np's in combination. The heat is still helping with increased metabolism and immunity at this point. Salt is helping with O2/Co2 exchanges and slime coat production.

And just in case were second guessing, the first treatment will still kill any Ich, if there is any.

wfoxx3
05-11-2012, 06:56 PM
I went out and got the Tetra Parasite Guard. I did a partial water change for the Ammonia and added the tablet. Tried the pea but she wouldn't eat. So hopefully it is a parasite and the medicine will kick in and get her back to normal so she can eat and get stronger. Thanks again for all of your help, I will keep you updated.

bignellm
05-11-2012, 07:07 PM
Hope it works. IME, refusing a pea is not a good sign. The meds should get into her system soon and kill anything inside her intestines. When I used it, almost was sick when I seen the worms being pooped out. Just a heads up.

wfoxx3
05-14-2012, 12:55 AM
Just wanted to update you. I put in the second dose of the Tetra Parasite Guard today and some more salt. My platy is still fighting but she still isn't eating, so I'm really upset about that. I tried peas and I tried putting a couple flakes in there. She totally ignores the peas and for the most part the food. A couple of times she swam up to the food but then lost interest. I'm just really worried because I don't know how much longer she can go without eating..is there anything else I can do to try and get something into her system? And also, how long do you think it would take for the Parasite Guard to kill the parasites if there are any? The directions say I can repeat twice every 48 hours with a partial water change so I only have 1 more dose I can give her and she seems the same. Thanks

bignellm
05-14-2012, 01:06 AM
Platy refusing pea and flakes. Keep running the course of treatment.

On the food front, there's not much that can be done, except offering it. Fish can go a little ways in not eating.

A third food you can try is a live food, like blood worms. It's completely up to you on this one. Some places like my lfs will sell a $1's worth that will last a few days.
There's no guarantee though, this won't be ignored too.

wfoxx3
05-14-2012, 01:14 AM
Ok maybe I will try that. I just hate that she isn't getting better, I feel awful and I'm still hoping that I diagnosed this correctly and this will help her. Is it normal for parasite treatment to take this long or even longer if this is what she has? I'm just trying to stay positive about it.

bignellm
05-14-2012, 01:19 AM
Well, with the Parasite Guard, this will kill Ich as well as internal. So, its a nice double whammy, just in case. Unfortunately, it's never a certainty that any fish will survive internal parasites. Hopefully yours will snap back soon. I'm usually not sure if one will make it or not, until about a week passes after treatment. If fish stops swimming like a zombie, then will usually make it, if not--then it seems unlikely.

wfoxx3
05-14-2012, 01:28 AM
Alright, I will just try and stay positive and hopefully this medicine will knock out the parasite and she can start eating and get her strength up and back to normal. I just hope that it is a parasite or Ich so I am treating correctly. Again, thanks for all of your help.

wfoxx3
05-14-2012, 04:58 AM
I have another theory on what is bothering my fish. I've been researching Hexamita and she is displaying all of the symptoms. She had the clear stringy poop and then stopped eating and all the rest. And I believe maybe the spots that I had trouble identifying may be from that as it said they can form at the base of the tail. The good news is that the Tetra Parasite Guard is said to treat this and has the ingredient recommended to treat it (metronidazole). However, when reading about treating Hexamita it is suggested that you use metronidazole.

Do you have any familiarity with Hexamita and if this case that my platy might have seems to be too far along? And if it is Hexamita do you think I should continue my last dose of Tetra Parasite Guard (which would be the day after tomorrow since I administered today), forget the last dose and go out and get just the metronidazole, or do the last dose of parasite guard and then go out and start treatment of metronidazole?

I'm just worried that if this is what it is that there might not be enough metronidazole in the parasite guard for this severe a case? Thanks.

bignellm
05-14-2012, 11:10 AM
"Hexamita" Article
http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/disease/hexamita.php
As the disease progress the numbers of symptoms will increase and you can often start to see symptoms of hole in the head disease as well. The symptoms of more progressed Hexamita includes the fish becoming darker or even black, the fish start swimming backwards, the head sinks in (becomes thin), weight loss and the fish starting to hide in small corners with its head facing downwards.
...It is also recommended to medicate the water as well by adding 12 mg metronidazole per litre aquarium water to make the treatment more effective.

Your fish has been displaying these symptoms in bold?

I've not ever encountered this. So, is new to me. I would follow the treatment regiment and move into Metronidazole. I don't see how you'll get the fish to eat for the first part of treatment, but hopefully the second part will do the trick.

It's always a possibility that fish is too far gone, so being a fish of a certain cost, it is completely understandable to consider the cost and benefit rules for an all out treatment plan for your fish.

wfoxx3
05-14-2012, 04:52 PM
No but I read of other symptoms that can be shown with it but I don't know. I think I am just going to give the last treatment of the Parasite Guard tomorrow and if it doesn't help then just try and keep her as comfortable as possible until she either gets better or passes. Unless there is anything else you think I should do that may help?

bignellm
05-15-2012, 12:35 AM
IMO, keep the water clean, stick to treatments, keep offering food and fresh/live varieties. If she doesn't come back, you did everything you could do.

wfoxx3
05-15-2012, 02:59 AM
My fish passed away tonight. Thanks again for all of your help.

bignellm
05-15-2012, 11:01 AM
I'm sorry. Wish my advice was the magic pill that would of saved the fish.
Unfortunately sometimes there's not much that can be done to save them.

You did everything possible to help the Platy.