ammonia cycling after 3 weeks

[jgilk1]

ok i will start off with my first post kind of confused

used tank thats been in storage 10 gallon 2 bulb hood 12h/on 12h/off
pre set tank heater 78*f (26*c)
20 gallon tank side 4 stage filter (cascade 100gallon/hour)
(will be using filter to cycle a 55g tank once i get this tank fully cycled)


add tap water and conditioner let tank cycle for 3 days

beginning of tank cycle day 1
start off with 6 tiger barbs and 5 large striped tetras 1 pleco and 2 sunfire mollies 5" of fish per gallon (acclimated fish to tank temperature for 5 hours before setting them free)

day 3 tank water becomes green tinted and i cycle out 20% of water to clear up
day 5 ammonia lvl rises from 0ppm/l to .25ppm/l
day 5.5 12 hours later tank water goes milky white

day 7 water clears up and ammonia level starts to drop and chemical test show nitrite is rising

(i got buisy with work and didnt test the levls in the tank)

day 14 nitrite and nitrate levels have disappeared ammonia level has risen above 8ppm/l fish are excessively stressed and the barbs are showing signs of poisoning 30% (3 gallons and a cap full of prime) water change in the morning and 20% (2 gallons and 1/2 cap full of prime) at night 12 hours later

day 16 3 tiger barbs, 1 molly, and 4 striped tetras have died ammonia is still at or above 8ppm/l no nitrite and no nitrate added 5 cap fulls of prime and a 50% water change

day 18 (today) my other 3 tiger barbs, molly, and 1 tetra have died my pleco is staring to show signs of massive stress and ammonia poisoning and is sticking it snout above the water level


ok so whats going on??? i mean even if i do 50% water change its as though i am back at day 3??? what happened to my tank???

the instructions on the back of the bottle of prime says it treats 1mg/l of ammonia per ml of prime 1ml of prime treats 10gal of water (37.85l)

[pjaldave]

Running the tank for 3 days without anything in it is NOT a cycle. Read up on cycling with fish stickied on this forum.

Too many fish in a 10G, that caused excessive ammonia spike that killed your fishes.

And 5 inches of fish per gallon? Where did you even get that?

[Lady Hobbs]

As already pointed out, nothing is as it should have been.

When starting out, you start "slowly" and you also start with fish you intend to keep in the tank. Not likely Tiger Barbs will find a 10 gallon too great to live their lives in. Also, if this is a common pleco, they grow to one foot and no bottom feeders should be in any tank not yet cycled.

Too many mistakes to correct but read the cycling threads below and some of it may clear things up for you.

[junkers12]

Hi and welcome to the forum. When cycling a fish tank you have to make the decision on to what type of cycling you want to do. But it appears that you are going the cycling with fish method. It is a little hard on the fish but that is what I did. The way to start the cycle is to only put in one or two tough fish. You should check your water daily and if the water quality is getting worse change some of the water but do not touch the gravel or filter. You can add some water conditioners to help reduce the stress. Do not add a bottom feeder like a pleco because they are more likely to get stressed out because of the toxins at the bottom of the tank. Cycling a tank can take 2 to 3 weeks up to a month and a half. When starting up a tank take your time. The good bacteria need to grow to break down the ammonia and the nitrites. When you take out too much water it is like you are starting over again, by removing too many of the good bacteria. Also 5 hours for getting the fish acclimated is a very long time, 20 minutes is long enough. I hope this helps.

[jgilk1]

well its obvious that the ammonia is what killed them but the question is why...
(this isn't my first tank nor my largest setup)
day 7-12 the ammonia cycle should have ended (with lower temps closer to 10 days with the nitrate starting to show up on day 7) and the nitrate cycle should have begun...

i bought 6 tiger barbs as stated above from the use of an over sized filter that the intended purpose is to generate a 55 gallon aquarium that and there cheap theres no reason that any of these fish should have died

with the usae of 5" of fish per gallon on cycle it will yes spike the ammonia quicker but as you can see by the notes i have entered above it was day 5 before the ammonia spiked above zero... as with mentioned above the point is not to house the fish in this aquarium... (yep i will state it a few times)


the reason for using the 10g tank is i don't have the time in a day to cycle out 11+ gallons a day from the larger tank i will simply once this tank has cycled and is finished doing so use this tank filter and water to speed up the process of cycling the 55 gallon tank

[jgilk1]

thanks junkers that was prob-lie the biggest slap in the face i forgot about the gravel being a filter media.... :( so i guess i need to remove the placo and do a full ammonia cycle since im an idiot and when doing a water change just threw in the siphon... and im aware the tank will cycle faster with higher temps but i wasn't going to spend the extra to get a heater for a temporary tank :(

[Lady Hobbs]

You started with 14 fish in a little ten gallon tank. The result is exactly the result you should be getting. That would have been enough fish to began the cycle on a 55 gallon.

[Zander]

They died because you added so many fish at once before the tank had cycled. You should cycle with only one or two particularly hardy fish, then add slowly after you have completed the cycle.

That many fish in a 10 gallon tank might be possible if you did a truly excessive number of water changes. But even then it would only work if you had cycled the tank first and added fish slowly. With the number of fish they probably would have been stressed due to crowding, so I wouldn't recommend that many fish in such a small tank even with excessive water changes.

It seems you understand the concept of cycling fine, but you seem to miss that the ammonia spike was caused by the excessive number of fish.

[imma24]

day 7-12 the ammonia cycle should have ended (with lower temps closer to 10 days with the nitrate starting to show up on day 7) and the nitrate cycle should have begun...
the reason for using the 10g tank is i don't have the time in a day to cycle out 11+ gallons a day from the larger tank i will simply once this tank has cycled and is finished doing so use this tank filter and water to speed up the process of cycling the 55 gallon tank

You can't place a time limit on how long it should take a tank to cycle or even reach different stages in the cycling process. Every tank is different and in a smaller tank, a larger # of fish will produce lots of ammonia which will cycle a tank faster but probably kill all the fish (so what's the point) - that's why it's recommend to cycle with ammonia instead of fish - no deaths involved.

[Honey Badger 1]

Well, if I am understanding what you are saying, things were going along fine until you "got busy with work" and somewhere between day 7 and day 14 you lost what little of the cycle that had begun. Two things come to mind as to why this happened.
1. It is my understanding (I could be wrong) that Prime loses its effectiveness after a certain amount of time once it's been dumped in the tank. This is another reason so many water changes and re-dosing of Prime is needed during cycling with fish. That many fish in that small of a tank could have produced enough ammonia to kill a cycle. Without the benefits of testing during that time you really have no idea how much ammonia was being produced and therefore may not have changed out enough water to keep it low enough to not kill the cycle. Also you may not have added enough Prime during days 7-14 to neutralize the amount of ammonia being produced.
2. Without watching your tank 24/7 it's really impossible to know exactly what happened but I am wondering if someone didn't do something to the tank. Is there anyone else in your home that may have cleaned the filter and tank for you?

[Goes to 11!]

+1 to Andrea - No dated schedule is possible.
When you take out too much water it is like you are starting over again, by removing too many of the good bacteria.
Wrong. This implies that the BB live in the water column and they do not.

They live primarily in the filter bio-media and additionally in the substrate and also on all hard surfaces of the tank to a lesser degree. :22:

[dmagerl]

I think mommy1 hit it on the head.

What little cycle you had at the beginning was killed by your >8ppm ammonia level. The bacteria couldnt keep up with the large fish load and then, as the ammonia levels climbed, was killed off when the ammonia level spiked.

The large number of fish in the tank was the initiating factor.

[jgilk1]

Well, if I am understanding what you are saying, things were going along fine until you "got busy with work" and somewhere between day 7 and day 14 you lost what little of the cycle that had begun. Two things come to mind as to why this happened.
1. It is my understanding (I could be wrong) that Prime loses its effectiveness after a certain amount of time once it's been dumped in the tank. This is another reason so many water changes and re-dosing of Prime is needed during cycling with fish. That many fish in that small of a tank could have produced enough ammonia to kill a cycle. Without the benefits of testing during that time you really have no idea how much ammonia was being produced and therefore may not have changed out enough water to keep it low enough to not kill the cycle. Also you may not have added enough Prime during days 7-14 to neutralize the amount of ammonia being produced.
2. Without watching your tank 24/7 it's really impossible to know exactly what happened but I am wondering if someone didn't do something to the tank. Is there anyone else in your home that may have cleaned the filter and tank for you?


in all the research i did before i attempted to cycle with this many fish i never even came across the idea that that high of levels of ammonia would effect bacterial growth though you could be right and the theory is sound...

prime is a 24 hour conditioner and after that it's effectiveness wears off...


day 19 ammonia levels have dropped off completely chem test shows <0.25ppm (the tint of the chem test indicates there's little to no ammonia) of ammonia 0 nitrites and 0 nitrates

the pleco is showing fewer signs of stress tank water smells like high quality dirt with traces of surfer (prime) prime does not stop the cycling it just binds the ammonia with other chemicals to make the water safe for the fish... the ammonia still would exist for the bacteria to process


#2 the roomates know better then cleaning a tank in the first 2 months but there is a possibility that some one other then them did it...

[junkers12]

thanks junkers that was prob-lie the biggest slap in the face i forgot about the gravel being a filter media.... :( so i guess i need to remove the placo and do a full ammonia cycle since im an idiot and when doing a water change just threw in the siphon... and im aware the tank will cycle faster with higher temps but i wasn't going to spend the extra to get a heater for a temporary tank :(

Sorry I am not trying to knock you or imply that you are an idiot, I am trying to help you because I made these mistakes. When my ammonia spiked up I thought you had to clean everything, that is what the pet store told me when I first had fish years ago. I do recommend putting in a heater it really does help even if it is a temp tank. I had my heater set too low and it took a while to cycle, I then put the temp to 82 F and it help the cycle go a little faster.

[Zander]

To add to what Junkers just said. You don't need to buy a separate heater for the 10 gallon if it's temporary. Just buy a heater big enough for a 55 gallon and put it in the 10. When you upgrade you can move the heater over.

Might be a little tricky to keep both tanks warm during the few hours you are switching, but it should be possible.

[pjaldave]

Sorry, but I don't get the whole thing of cycling the filter in a 10G with that much amount of fish when you want to put them right away in the 55 anyways.

If you cannot change more than 11G of water in a day (whichever day), then you're not supposed to have a tank bigger than 10G. Not being rude, but, that's how I understand your response.

Did you research enough?

[jgilk1]

this isn't my first aquarium setup and cycle this is why i am confused as to the events i have seen set backs in a tank cycle with 2 ammonia spikes but not >8ppm/l after nitrites have appeared and nitrites disappearing all together

[Honey Badger 1]

Now that you have readings of 0 across the board the only thing to do now, obviously, is start over with daily water changes and dosing Prime. Have you checked your tap water for ammonia?
I've never experienced it myself, but have helped many people here and in the real world with their tanks after they have lost the cycle. The main reasons I have seen this happen are; they dosed ammonia too high, think about it, "they" use ammonia to clean public bathrooms, it has anti-bacterial qualities at higher doses, they cleaned their filters, added anti-bacterial medications, or the power went out for an extended length of time. You didn't mention the 2nd two common reasons, so I am going with either of the 1st two.

[pjaldave]

just a side comment. do us all a favor and put punctuation marks on your posts. It is really hard to read and understand what you are trying to say sometimes.

[jgilk1]

all of the water here in this area is "aquifer" or well water no chloride chloromine or florid additive.

Ammonia for the tap water tests at 0ppm/l.

testing water today i have
0.5 ppm/l of ammonia
0.25-0.50 ppm/l of nitrites (color is in between)
my ph is at 9.0 and i have no way to alter that chemically till next Friday so do i worry about it with water changes or just let it go?


Dave i lack punctuation because that would put an end to a complete thought! i have many partial thoughts that run together if it bothers you i am sorry.

[Honey Badger 1]

I wouldn't worry about the ph during cycling.

[Cermet]

In fact, I wouldn't worry about pH at all. Keeping ones normal pH (unless soft water causes wild swings) should be the norm ...