Firemouth Cichlid Hiding / Not Eating

[MandyH]

I bought 3 juvenile Firemouth Cichlids a couple of weeks ago. They were all initially doing really well, but one of them (one of the smaller ones) has since stopped eating and rarely comes out of hiding. The other two are thriving, are active, and eat like pigs. I haven't seen anyone picking on anyone other than the ocassional chase where not much if any contact is being made. All of the other fish in the tank are doing fine. I don't have a QT tank.

My water parameters are fine. The only different thing in the tank is that I got a new Rena air pump which is adding a lot more bubbles to the tank. Is it possible I'm over oxygenating the tank? I have the bubble wand going 3/4 the length of the tank and I had it on high (I turned it to down to see if it'll help) so there's a LOT of bubles. It's actually making the water look kind of cloudy because of the air bubbles.



Any other ideas? Should I treat the tank with Melafix/Pimafix?

[Lady Hobbs]

I would think it was more like a pair is bonding and it's the odd- one- out that will now end up being bullied by the other two.

[ScottishFish]

I agree with LH.

Firemouths are glutons, and when happy they rarely ever hide. Sounds to me like the other two have either paired up leaving the other as an outcast. Or the others have equal size and therefore are equally dominant and so are able to withstand eachother and still bully the other firemouth.

When people think of fish being chased, harrassed, or bullied, they often make the mistake of thinking that this has to happen all the time for this to affect the unfortunate fish. Wrong.

If your fish wanders out, and then gets chased it hides, it may decide to hide for 20mins? Then ventures out, gets chased, hides, and so on. This being the case your fish may only be getting harrassed 3 times per hour, but it is still enough as to make him almost permanently hide, so unless you sit and watch your tank constantly for several hours do not assume that the other two arent bullying the poor thing.

Try feeding him with a turkey baster and some brineshrimp/bloodworms, this over a week or two may beef him up a bit and give him some confidence.

Note: clean turkey baster afterwards :hmm3grin2orange:

[MandyH]

Thanks for the quick answers. I do have another tank that I could move the little guy to, but it's a 46g with a pair of Angels. Would this make the situation worst for him or the angels?

He's actually out right now, but sitting near the upper left corner while the other two are towards the bottom. They're so young, only about 1.5-2" long, would they still form a bond so young? I have seen the other 2 chase each other around, nothing really aggressive as far as I can tell.

[ScottishFish]

Hmmm it would depend how densley planted the other tank was, along with hiding places etc.

Have you ever had anything else in the tank with the angels to see how they would act?

I dont know for certain if they are a pair from what you've said but if they arent then do not remove the little guy. Cichlids form a pecking order and it may be the case the other two are establishing who is most dominant. After this has been established top dog 1 can pick on lower guys 2 and 3. And if 2 is stronger than 3 then 2 can pick on 3 aswell but not on 1 as he is top dog. Removing 3 would mean that 1 could direct all of his attention on 2 and may kill him. Sorry if thats kinda confusing.

For this reason that is why many cichlid keepers either keep 1 of a species (Me I keep 1 firemouth) or keep several 3+ to minimise aggression. So depending on tank size and other tank mates getting 1 or 2 more juveniles may help the situation. Or oppositely rehome two of them and just keep one.

[MandyH]

The angels had been with other fish before so being with new fish wouldn't be a problem, but after reading what you said (which made sense to me by the way), I don't want to screw things up with the others. I'll try the turkey baster method, but I don't know that it'll work. It was out and about when I fed them this morning, food literally fell right in front of him, but he didn't even look at it.

I know it's impossible to sex Firemouth's based on color alone, but if it that does play a role in it, the other two would be male/female. The largest is more of a dull color which I'd assume were female and the other has a lot of red near it's throat which I'd assume is male.

[ScottishFish]

Sexing firemouths is a pain until they are pretty much adult, mines is 3inches and I am still in a mixxed mind, sometimes he/she flashes brilliantly red whilst othertimes that dull grey comes over it.

Remember the fish can only eat so much, so for a small fish 1 bloodworm is enough for a day. How much are you feeding the tank i.e how often and what is it your feeding?

To be on the safe side forget the option with the angels, they can be veeeery unpredictable.

[Lady Hobbs]

I found mine somewhat easy to sex because the male was more red and the females more pinkish. But in my 55 gallon, I had five. Two formed a pair and the 5th one become skinny, stayed in the floating plants at the top of the tank and he was not allowed to come to the bottom of the tank at all. He couldn't eat and couldn't even get into a cave or was chased out. He was picked on just terribly.

If you can move him, I would do so. With him being young, he will be fine (I believe) with the angels. Mine got along with everything but their own species.

You can see the distinct coloring between male and female in the pic below altho mine were somewhat older. Sparing with each other, of course. They spawn very young!

What may also work better if you don't want 400 babies to cull (as I had to do) is keep the females together and move the male.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v93/carolo/My%20Fish/Picture193.jpg

[ScottishFish]

Real Healthy looking fish you've got there Lady Hobbs thumbs2: Here is a pic of mine, this was him/her showing off a bit, any ideas on what sex it could be? http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/fishpictures/data/500/medium/IMG-20120321-00364.jpg Sorry for slightly hijacking this thread.

Also that is a valid point LH made there, are you looking to find a pair and breed them? Or was three just a magic number :hmm3grin2orange:

[Lady Hobbs]

Can't tell because others are not with him. He would be coloring up more if he was showing off and flaring his throat more. Female also do that but not as much. If I had to make a guess from what I can see here, I would "guess" a female but guessing is not helping you any. Now I'm wanting to get some again!

[ScottishFish]

They are great fish. From what I can see of the female on the right of your picture I would agree that mines looks like a female

[Lady Hobbs]

Also the one directly across from her. Red but not "as" red. Note we have female sparing with the female and male with the male. :)

They never fought. Just go through the constant motion of trying to act all tough.

[ScottishFish]

I wouldn't mind having a breeding pair, but mines is around 3 inches so probs too late to pair.

[Lady Hobbs]

When I had all those babies, I called every fish store within 100 miles of me to see if I could give them away. Put an ad in craigslist, my local paper and in freecycle paper. I couldn't give them away! I put some in my blood parrot tank thinking they might eat them but heck no.......they adopted them and took care of them. sheesh I had to kill them all and it about killed me. But I could not have 404 firemouths in a 55 gallon tank.

[ScottishFish]

Wow, that's amazing, and tragic. I'd love to have fry in general, I still love my solo firemouth though, I've got kribs who are on the verge of breeding so I've got something else to concentrate on :)

[MandyH]

Wow... lots of good info! Don't apologize for "hijacking" my thread. These Firemouths are new to me so the more I can learn about them, the better!

Since I posted this I've watched the tank carefully for a while and I did see the other two larger Firemouths chasing the little one around so no doubt about it now, that's what's happening. I've decided to bring little guy to work with me tomorrow to put him in my 46 gallon. The unfortunate thing is that the angels live in that tank. They're medium sized angels and are very mild mannered. They don't seem to chase each other or any other fish. I did have several other fish in the tank, but lost them over time. Right now it's just the 2 angels and a clown pleco. Worst case, if it doesn't work I can see if any of my coworkers wants him or I'll have to return him to the store. Hopefully it won't come to that though.

Here are pics of my trio. If they post in the order that I want them to, the first one will be the one I'm assuming is female based solely on color. She doesn't flare that often, but does still do it. The second will be the larger assumed male which is more colorful and flares quite a bit. The last will be the little guy who will be moved to my work tank.

EDIT: They did post in order. Female, male, little guy.

[ScottishFish]

Awwww they are so small and cute thumbs2:

[Lady Hobbs]

Your angels should be ok with him. Good luck nonetheless. They may check him out but angels are much like firemouths in that they only seem to act snotty with their own kind.

[MandyH]

Thanks. I'll post another update tomorrow.

[MandyH]

Well, little guy has been moved to my work aquarium. Later than I planned, but at least he's there now. We had quite the day to say the least! When I woke up this morning we were without power (we're getting hit with rain pretty hard right now). When the power finally came back on I had to scramble to get ready for work. I spent a good 20-25 minutes trying to catch the little rascal, but had no luck. I had to give up and head to work. On my lunch hour I went home to try catching him again. It took me over a half hour and I also had to take everything out of the tank, but I finally caught the little brat. He looked pretty stressed out which was worrisome to me.

I took my time acclimating him to the new tank and then released him. One of the angels spotting him right away and swam over to him. He more or less just looked at him and then turned around. I shut the tank lights off and put some flake food in and to my surprise the little guy FINALLY ate! That's the first time I saw him eat for 2-3 days so I was very happy to see it! I peeked in on him every 10-15 minutes and he was always out and about exploring and picking at the rocks, plants, etc. His colors seemed to have gotten better with time too. He was initally very dark, but then he lightened up nicely. So far he seems to be doing ok, so hopefully it'll continue.

[ScottishFish]

Glad to hear that you got it all sorted thumbs2: lucky you with a peacefull pair of angels.

How are the other two now??

[MandyH]

Yeah, these angels have always been pretty mild mannered. They're at least 6years old, but on the small side. They get along really well together. They've never tried to breed that I'm aware of so they may be a pair of females.

The other two firemouths are doing just fine. They probably haven't even noticed the little one is missing. The more I watch them, the more I'm beginning to wonder if they are getting "friendly". They will ocassionally chase each other, but they're also just fine swimming next to each other. It appears for the most part that they're friendly with each other.

I was pretty worried about the little one. He got very dark and had some pretty thick black stripes while I was trying to catch him and while I was acclimating him, but once he was "set free" in his new home he lightened right up and ate. I'm sure he had a very stressful day, but at least now while he's in his new tank it's nice and quiet so he should be able to get some rest.

[MandyH]

Thought I'd post a quick update on my Firemouths.

The two at home are doing great. They still chase each other around every now and then, but for the most part they go about their own thing on opposite sides of the tank. The one I think is female sticks to the left side and the one I suspect is male is mostly on the right side. I've read that another way of sexing these guys is that females tend to have a more plump body, which in my case would be true if she is in fact a female. Anyway, no issues with them now that the little one has been moved. :)

Now the little guy... he's also doing great! He's been out and about exploring the tank with no harassment at all. The angels don't seem to care about his being there at all and he doesn't seem to care that they're there either. He has great colors and has been eating as well. Moving him no doubt saved him! :)

[ScottishFish]

Glad to hear that!!

[MandyH]

Well, I'm sad to report that my little Firemouth died sometime last night. This morning I came in and he was under one of the plants resting on the gravel. I watched him for a few seconds before realizing his gills weren't moving. I don't quite know what went wrong. He was always out and about whenever I checked on him. I didn't see the angelfish picking on him (but I'm at work so it's hard to constantly watch them). He had a good appetite and was eating very well. He was still very small so maybe there was something genetically wrong with him from the start. I don't know. At least I tried to save him. :(

[ScottishFish]

Sorry to hear that :scry:

Are the other 2 still ok?

[MandyH]

My other two are doing great. Both have been very active and eat like every meal is going to be their last. They have great colors too. The little one I just lost did have some color, but he was not as colorful as the other two. Maybe that was a sign that I overlooked. Poor thing. :(

[ScottishFish]

These things just happen sometimes. As long as your other 2 are ok then that's good :ssmile: