Emergency....help Needed Asap!!!!

[AquaQueen]

I AM FREAKING OUT NOW!!!! I just had a visit from my MIL well the kids were excited to see her and wanted to show her our pets because it's been a long time since she has seen them. Well anyways they put the lights on in the two tanks and then my oldest son started crying and flipping out because Ol'Blue our 3 spot Blue Gourami is not looking too good. He looks as if he spent the whole night scraping his body on rocks or like someone sanded his skin off, he is breathing really fast and swimming all around almost in a hyper way..I was in total shock to see him like this, I just did a 25% water change yesterday(which I thought was too early) and added some stress coat. W.T.H. COULD HAVE HAPPENED???
I am beyond scared right now...I have other tanks to put him in but they are not setup. I don't know if I can use water from one of the other two tanks already setup 1 with the Oscars & 1 with Guppy's. Anyway I was looking online to see what he has wrong with him and I am thinking it is this parasite called Costia(Ichthyobodo)? That was the main thing I found that matched the syptoms i am seeing...and they claim this parasite in the right water conditions can overcome a fish in a mater of a few hours!!! here is exactly what I read;

They can reproduce at a phenomenal rate - under ideal conditions

The main danger from Costia is the rate at which it can reproduce; quickly taking advantage of any shift in the balance of health. It is not unusual to see very sick fish literally alive with parasites (see the fish disease movies). However, the question that has to be asked in such cases is: "is the fish sick because of the heavy parasite infestation, or has it attracted parasites because it is sick?". At higher temperatures the generation doubling time can be as little as a few hours!

They do not reproduce sexually, they simply divide into two, a reproductive process called binary fission. The conditions that encourage this type of explosive population growth are those that we would expect; that is, stressed or sick fish, poor water quality and/or overcrowding. Under such (ideal!) conditions it reverts to a parasitic existence, attacking living cells with disastrous consequences.

Treatment

Treating mild to moderate outbreaks is fairly easy, usually requiring just one treatment. Most proprietary parasite treatments will work. My own preference is malachite and formalin, provided that fish are not suffering from gill damage. Prolonged immersion with potassium permanganate is another option but again this is not advisable if gill damage is suspected. When gill damage is suspected salt offers the safest route as either a bath treatment (20 - 25g/litre for 20 - 30 minutes) or as a long-term immersion at 3-5g/litre.

In advanced and severe cases, resolution may be very difficult because of the numbers of parasites involved, excess mucus and hyperplasia helping to protect the parasites from chemical treatments and the poor health of the fish. In such circumstance tank treatments with chloramine-T and long term salt support is the best option with treatments being repeated until the fish shows signs of improvement.


What do I do? I have never heard of the stuff they say to use to treat this. Is there a possibility there is something else out there that could have done this to him this fast? PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!

[AquaQueen]

OK well I am now thinking that it is not Costia. I spoke to my Guy and he seems to think it is from the gravel...I will admit I didn't vac it before changing the tanks thought it would help where i was doing the major overhaul...anyways I am in the process of vacuuming the gravel then changing the water almost 75% then filling it with water that has been pretreated & conditioned(while we speak and during the Vac process), then I'm adding some Stress Coat, API Aquarium Salt, Fungus Guard and raising the temp to about 85 degrees. I just cant help thinking maybe I should treat Ol' Blue alone to be sure he is getting the treatment I want and raise the possibility of his survival? Maybe? Anyways is there anything else I can be doing right now that I am missing? Thanks for the Help.

[Lady Hobbs]

Could he have gotten trapped in something and is just injured?

He does sound to be infected with some parasite and it's making his rub his skin against objects. I don't know about the salt. Seems to me it would further bother him. Salt in wounds is not too much fun. Do you see any ICK spots? How about gill flukes?

[AquaQueen]

Hobbs
Nope, there's nothing but plants in the tank, there's no ich spots, no gill flukes. I was looking at my Jungle Fish care chart to try and figure it out but the thing is I see so many different symptoms for different things all on him at once. Like his fins are clamped, he does seem to have a cottony like fungus on his whole body now that I moved him I see it more, he has these red sore like spots all over him, I dont see any puffy gills or anything like that . I dont think it is just one thing. I think I have pretty much done all I can I moved them into a ten gal for now with all meds I listed before. Then I just spent the past ten minutes hiding in my room crying so my kids wont see me. I don't think he will make it he has been flopping all around on his side, upside down, the filter is pretty much pushing him around now, and every so often he gets a bust of energy and darts across the tank. I tested the water before I started doing things and the Ammonia0, PH 6.0 was 7.0 two days ago? Nitrites0, Nitrates?I forgot to check before I started messing with the gravel can I still check it now before I go drain the tank with all the crap floating around? I am so very PO'd right now! Hubby keeps telling me he is only a fish and to calm down but we have had this "FISH" for 5 years now and he is my buddy...I have lost 3 fish since I got sick and now today I might be loosing him after 5yrs!! GOD I am freaking out!! I swear it's because I took them out of my Hex!! Their home! I gotta go cook dinner then I will check back before we finnish the tank to see if anyone else has any ideas we can use. Thanks For any other help anyone can provide. But I just think it is a big wait and see game now. Please keep your fingers crossed that he is strong enough to come back and fight this.

[AquaQueen]

OK well seeing how there are still no replies other then the one from Hobbs maybe a few pictures will help and someone can at least suggest something. PLEASE!!!
I even added a picture of the type of gravel I have in there, it's no very sharp at all so I wonder how his body got all of these marks on him. ANYONE????

[TowBoater]

Any small places he may have gotten hung up in? Looks like he struggled to get out of something or got wraped up in something. He looks is really bad condition though. Stress coat is a big thing to use.

[MeganL3985]

All I can see are the red streaks.....the skin is disturbed too? The only thing that popped into my head with the pictures is Septicemia. But I have absolutely no idea if the skin itself is actually torn.

Only two things I can think--
1. Another fish
2. Got stuck somewhere like Hobbs said.

[MeganL3985]

Some info on septicemia if your not sure--
Fish that become infected experience hemorrhaging of their internal organs, skin, and muscle. Some fish show no external symptoms, but others show signs of infection that include bulging eyes, bloated abdomens, bruised-looking reddish tints to the eyes, skin, gills and fins. Some infected fish have open sores that may look like the lesions from other diseases or from lamprey attacks.
Living fish afflicted with VHS may appear listless or limp, hang just beneath the surface, or swim very abnormally, such as constant flashing circling due to the tropism of the virus for the brain.

External signs may include darker coloration, exophthalmia (“pop eye”), pale or red-dotted gills, sunken eyes, and bleeding around orbits (eye sockets) and at base of fins.


I got this information from Wikipedia.org--
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viral_hemorrhagic_septicemia

[AquaQueen]

There is nothing he could have gotten hung up on unless you think he may have gotten stuck in the plants? Yes his skin is all cottony like and peeling off I couldn't get a picture that would show that. I do have a few more that I didn't post and a full shot of the tank to show you there's nothing he could have gotten stuck in. He is only 5yrs old I didn't think that was old for him he has always been like a baby up until yesterday and he has always been the strongest fish and survived EVERTHING even my First Tank...and we all know how our very first tank did...well the ones who didn't research first anyway. But I think this is it, his battle is over now, I just went to get a drink & checked on him, he has slowed on his breathing now and seems to be slowly fading away on me. I am so broken hearted. I can't believe this crap. I will never find another fish like him....he will forever be in my heart! I just want to go and smash the whole damn tank!!! I am so mad all that work and now, it's too late! Why is this crap happening now of all times? I swear if one more fish dies after being in the QT tank all night I am smashing the tank and I will be done with fish...I cant take this...one week of me being sick and all hell breaks loose in my tank and I'm too sick to be testing the water and notice what the hell is going on and fix it before it came to this.

[MeganL3985]

After reading that you really dont think he could've gotten hung up on anything, and after reading quite a bit about the septicemia, I reallllllllly think that might be whats going on. Do you have an Maracyn II? Cause that treats it. Anything is worth a try girl, don't give up hun!!!

[TowBoater]

Man, I feel so sorry for you. Don't give up on it though, everyone has a rough time with there tank every now and then. Try stress coat and treat him, that is all you can do. Maybe he will pull through it but don't give up on fish.

[AquaQueen]

Man between my health, my man's health and now our fishes health I dunno who's going to do what and when...I am going CRAZY!! I am so emotional right now, I feel so dumb to be this upset over my fish, everyone in my family thinks I lost my mind but, I feel like I'm losing my little friend. He is the one who stays up with me at night when I am sick and the one who is always happy to see me no matter what I look like. Now that he is sick and needs me, there's no way I can comfort him. I last checked him about 15minutes ago and He is now floating on his side and keeps fighting to flip upright and he just can't. I hope he is not in any pain. My Poor Baby is Dying for sure now...:ssad: I hate this part of keeping a pet. It is just so hard and heavy on your heart....at least for me, with a pet for that long, no matter what kind of pet it is, I find it hard to sit and watch it die...I have been telling him to go to rainbow bridge and wait for us...my son has been so depressed all day he is 10 and has spent half of his life with this fish in it and is having a tough time letting go...we will have to do a little burial for him in the morning...I just know it.:scry:

[MeganL3985]

Have you tried any meds at all, is there anything you have on hand? Maracyn II treats a lot of different things so if its not septicemia and its something else, it may help that too. I would be throwin something in there. I know your not suppose to treat without a proper diagnosis, but at the point of life or death, i'd be more than willing to atleast attempt something.

[AquaQueen]

Oh god yea I didn't sit here and do nothing. I took them out of the 45 gal tank. I started by filling the 10gal QT tank, 50% of the water came from the Guppy tank(tested the water to be sure it was all good first) and the other 50% I used I had already put in my bucket as soon as I noticed something was wrong with Blue because I was going to only take him out so I had that treating with conditioner and start right while I looked to see what it could be online. Anyways I put stress coat, API aquarium salt, fungus guard, and raised the water temp to 85 degrees all in the tank let it sit for about half an hour then put blue in alone, until I called my guy at the LPS and told him all the water parameters and what I was seeing and he told me to remove them all and do a 75 water change and leave the fish in the QT tank until tomorrow afternoon after I test the water at his shop. So I have the 45gal filled all cleaned out. We changed the water and vacuumed the gravel and left it fishless...I am just running the heat a little high because I am hoping to explode the damn tank...to be honest I feel it cursed my fish...and I dont even want to put them back in it. I wish I kept them in the Hex, where things were fine. Ugh...

[MeganL3985]

Awe i'm so sorry hun :(

[AquaQueen]

Thanks so much Megan you are such a sweetheart. Trust me he is(was) my baby...I went in panic mode...I guess I will be OK I will just really miss him ALOTTTT!!!!

EDIT: He is gone now, I watched him take his last breath like four minutes ago. I have him in my feeder fish tank for the night so the other fish dont eat him and we can burry him in the morning. Sigh...Poor guy.

[cocoa_pleco]

lol, i need a stressball too. on my new long tank, i saw water in the front and though now the dam thing leaks after getting it all pretty. i looked at the fluidized bed filter, and it has 2 leaks and the water traveled from the tank rear to the front. now i have to go back and exchange it after 2 hours of getting it going

[AquaQueen]

What is going on with all of our tanks...have we been cursed and dont know it yet?

[cocoa_pleco]

lol, EVIL has come! i think my aquarium exorcism is about complete though. i fixed the salt tanks high salinity by the person caring for my tanks and the mushrooms are coming back, and everything else is getting better. now, we need the good luck to transfer to YOU!

[AquaQueen]

Yea about that...I doubt it's gonna happen anytime soon...unless I were to fall in a bucket of dog poo and come out smelling like roses...I don't get good luck!

[Lady Hobbs]

Now that I've seen your pictures it's no wonder you are freaked out. He doesn't look injured from the outside but more like bleeding on the inside out.

Megan may have hit on it but my thoughts were that Septicaemia shows up more around the fin areas first. More like red streaks.

Septicaemia
This condition can follow on from skin infections such as finrot or may occur independently as a result of dirty conditions. Bacteria enter the blood stream and circulate through the tissues causing inflammation and damage. Blood vessel and heart tissue damage result in leakage of fluids into the abdomen, prpducing dropsy. Inflamed blood vessels in the skin and at fin bases stand out.

Things To Look Out For
Reddening at the bases of the fins
Small haemorrhages around the eyes
Very dull, listless behavious
Lack of appetite

Now I have to go in search and see what else comes to mind. So sorry for your poor fish. It wasn't your fault because you were sick!

And here's more:

Septicaemia http://www.thefishworld.co.uk/1x1.gif
Signs Of Infection
Reddish patches appear on the skin anywhere on the body.
Fish Affected
All aquarium fish are suspectable.
Details Of Infection
Caused by a bacterial infection manifesting in weakened fish. The infection spreads quickly and fish do not survive long.
The bacteria usually occurs when poor environmental conditions prevail.
Treatment
Frequent water changes usually prevent the disease, however outbreaks can be controlled by application of a commercial anti-bacterial remedy even when infection appears advanced.



If this is what it is, he needs to be moved ASAP. It's highly contagious and most don't survive. I would be adding medication to this whole tank as a preventive so others don't also get it.

[cocoa_pleco]

ive had bad memories with that disease and all didnt make it. good article hobbs. to be honest sometimes my fish got it under excellent conditions. aquaqueen, im sure its not your fault. all mine that got it had to be euthuanised since i saw no point in letting them suffer after the heart deterioration stage (painful and terrible for a aquarium owner to watch)

[TowBoater]

Man aqua, I can't imagine what your going through but as I said, don't give up. You may have to treat the tank for a while before adding fish back into it.

[AquaQueen]

Yea Kuli, that's what I have been thinking all night. This morning I checked on them and the rest of the fish all seem fine...kinda seem like they are mad they are in the small medicated QT tank but, they will be there until I figure out what I am doing with the 45g. I am going to walk to my LPS today to buy a few things and I may just end up cycling the tank again. I can take it all out, wash it with HOT, HOT water and start fresh. We will see, I dunno for sure. I had a dream last night though, that I went to the LPS after everything was fixed and I got five more Phantom tetras and a pair of gouramis to add to my survivors(that's what I am calling them for now). I will miss Ol' Blue but I can't give up on my Hobby because of a setback...What would I be teaching my kids right? I am sorry for my behavior last night and I would like to apologize to everyone for it, I was just so upset after being sick and hubby getting sick and then the fish dying I was overwhelmed and should have handled it better. Thanks for the support everyone.

[cocoa_pleco]

I am sorry for my behavior last night and I would like to apologize to everyone for it, I was just so upset after being sick and hubby getting sick and then the fish dying I was overwhelmed and should have handled it better. Thanks for the support everyone.


lol, there was nothing worth appologizng for. its natural to be that way under stress

[Lady Hobbs]

Bonnie, whatever will happen will happen but not because your fish was not cared for. He lived a pretty long life actually and may have gotten ill simply due to his age. They don't live forever no matter how good we are to them.

You may be ill but not too ill to kick butt at lottery! LOLOL

[cocoa_pleco]

darn, now ive got one of my old fish going down the tubes. my flying fox is really old and looks weaker

[AquaQueen]

Thanks for the reassurance Cocoa...lol I am so very sorry you are having bad luck with your fish now. I hope he is just having a cramp and will be fine or something simple like that is going on. Good Luck!

Hobbs...wooohooo I had no idea that I won last nights yet...cool! That's one good thing for the night! Now if I could just win the AC weekly lotto one time It'd be great...or even if I were to win the real State Lottery for real money...now that would be some good luck! Thanks for your kind words.

[MeganL3985]

Atleast your fishie had you to take care of him while he was sick. He wasn't alone and you did all you could for him. Keep tryin hun :)

[AquaQueen]

Thanks Megan!! :)

[TowBoater]

You da woman!!!!!!:19: :19:

[AquaQueen]

No No it's Da Wo Man....lol JK

[TowBoater]

Lol, yea yea, the girls are always right....:c5:

[AquaQueen]

Well, Well, someone trained you right! HaHaHa!!

[TowBoater]

Well, Well, someone trained you right! HaHaHa!!

Lol, yea I guess so.....:22:

[AquaQueen]

well whoever it was should be proud...lol

[TowBoater]

That same person stated they were nothing but trouble and I should never get one. Very wise "man".:22:

[AquaQueen]

lmao...well that's sad, you will never know what that kind of life can really be like... if ya dont try one...your loss I guess...lol

[TowBoater]

No me saving money is my gain! Don't worry, I will, I will.

[AquaQueen]

LMAO....damn it I am going to get the last word in.... so help me!!!

[TowBoater]

Lol, the girls always have to, what can I do to help because I know you have to.

[AquaQueen]

LMAO...stop and let me win that's all...lol

[TowBoater]

OK, I have to go to bed now so you can until I get off work tomorrow. :c3:

[AquaQueen]

Thanks for the permission Kuli...GN & G'day at work tomorrow...lol Lil Punk

[TowBoater]

Lol, ok this is my last post on here for tonight, GOOD NIGHT!:22:

[AquaQueen]

yep I've heard that before...lol