Ammonia spike not dropping...

[kebuchan]

Hi all,

I had problems in my 55g community tank for the past week or so. Other than ick and losing 8 fish :-( there was also an ammonia spike. Ammonia was up at 3mg/L. Over the past 5 days I have done about 8 water changes. The last 2 changes were 80%.

Ammonia is down to 1.5 mg/L now.

Why is it taking so long to drop? My water source (tap) ammonia levels are at 0 mg/L or close enough to it that the test doesn't detect it.

No dead fish lying around and have not been feeding the fish much at all, mainly brine shrimp, threw a couple of small crickets and grasshoppers in there that were eaten right away.

Thanks,

Kevin

[Algenco]

what did you use to treat the ich? sounds like you killed the bacteria in the filter. Do you have another established tank that you could take some filter material from? If not you will most likely have to cycle the tank again.

[kebuchan]

For the ick I used "quICK". Never seen that before but it was all the LFS had when I was looking for something.

The ammonia levels did drop from 3 to 1.5 mg/L but I don't understand why it took so many water changes just to get down to there. I would have expected to see it drop to 0 after this many WCs, especially since the last few were 80% !

Thanks,

Kevin

[Lady Hobbs]

Kev, I don't know why you are having such large ammonia levels. I cycled my 55 with fish and my ammonia never got over .25. Generally the larger tanks don't get nearly as toxic as those small tanks.

Are you using dechlorinator with all these water changes? Is the tank about 80 degrees with aeration?

I think if I were you, at this point, I would remove your stock, put them in coolers with a bubble wand and just add pure ammonia to that tank so it can get moving in the right direction. Or take them back to the store until you can get this cycle straightened out.

I would also have removed the fish and treated them for ick in separate containers instead of the whole tank right now. Generally the ick meds won't mess with the bacteria trying to grow but the fungus meds will and you were having a problem with very high ammonia even before the ick.

I just don't know why you are having so many problems but I guess you can see now that fishless cycling is the way to go with these tanks. I'm sorry you're having so many problems and having your fish die. This makes it very discouraging for new fish owners to have all these problems right of the bat.

What do your have for nitrites?

[kebuchan]

>Are you using dechlorinator with all these water changes? Is the tank about >80 degrees with aeration?

Adding Tetra dechlor every change for the amount of new water. Adding salt as well. Have two aeration stones going at 100%.

> Or take them back to the store until you can get this cycle straightened
> out.

They're not all from the same store and some came with a used tank, so I can't return 'em. Cooler is an option but that water woudn't be cycled. problem with moving some of these fish to my other smaller tanks is that the fish in them are all healthy and I don't want to risk getting them sick too. Am contemplating bio-spira.

> I would also have removed the fish and treated them for ick in separate
> containers instead of the whole tank right now. Generally the ick meds
> won't mess with the bacteria trying to grow but the fungus meds will and
> you were having a problem with very high ammonia even before the ick.

I thought about doing that but other than the lack of tank space people (on here I think) recommended I just treat the whole tank for ick or whatever.

> This makes it very discouraging for new fish owners to have all these
> problems right of the bat.

Well, I used to have a ton of tanks in highschool, so for me it's "re-newbie", which helps makes it less dicouraging. The strange thing is "back in the day", I never cycled a tank but never lost fish either, save a couple here and there.


> What do your have for nitrites?
Don't know didn't check that yet, figured I should get my NH3 issue fixed first. I can test them though, have the kit.

My NH3 levels are dropping though, so I think I'm getting there.

Thanks,

Kevin

[Lady Hobbs]

Once you can get those levels to start dropping, they will drop fast. Same with the nitrites. Sometimes those remain high for what seems like forever then drop rather quickly.

I hate to say it but with 8 fish gone, your ammonia is bound to drop and perhaps that's what was needed. I have no idea of the number of fish you started with but several in a 55 should not be too many really.

I would not bother with biospira at this late stage. It's claimed to not work at all once ammonia levels are already high and needs to be added to the tank at the same time (or the day before) fish go in. Once high levels are ammonia are already present, the biospira can't keep up and is useless.

[kebuchan]

Stocking on my 55g was:

3 Bala sharks (5-6") (1 left)
6 Cherry Barbs (0 left)
6 Zebra Danios
2 American-Flag fish
1 Sail-fin molly
1 SAE
2 Kribensis (pair) (put these in a few days before I saw problems, they were in a another tank before)


Kevin

[kebuchan]

I think my tank is out of the red now.... Ammonia was normal when I checked this morning and the fish are a lot more active. The only one with the ick spots was a 6" Bala who sat in the corner at the surface all day. He's now all over the place scrounging around for food etc and almost all his spots have gone :19:

My temp is still at 88-89F. It has been at 75-76 for the past 3 months not sure if I should keep it in the low 80s or lower it to what it was.

Is there a recommended quarantine period for ick? I don't see it on any of the fish in the community tank but I don't want to move any fish around (in or out) before I know that it's totally safe to do so.

Thanks,

Kevin

[Rocky06fx4]

Don't forget to remove any coal out of your filters before you use the ick treatment.

[Lady Hobbs]

I would not keep temps that high. 84 is max with fish in the tank. And even that is too high for many. Most community fish are fine at 74-76 and raising to 82-84 is more than enough to treat ick. You fish are stressed out in water that warm.

Rather than using any meds I would use tank salt for the ick. I just treated my 55 gallon because I had two Silver Dollars with ick......(which was no longer apparent after 24 hours.) Salt also helps with gill function when nitrites are present in a tank.

By several fish, I'm talking about 6-8 in a 55 gallon........not 21! When cycling with fish, you must start out slow or the toxic levels will become intolerable for them.

I disagree to treat fish individually for Ick. Ick falls to the bottom of the tank and reproduces thousands more.

Their reproduction cycle lasts about 5 days after falling to the bottom which is why a 5 day treatment period is required but I would for sure get those temp to 82-84 for now.

[kebuchan]

hmmm probably need to recap:

1. First saw ick
2. Tried to treat ick (quiICK)
3. Fish were lethargic etc.
4. Noticed Ammonia spike
5. Did 10-12 water changes over a few days
6. Fish active now and no more ICK spots on any fish

I don't think I need to treat for Ick.

I read somewhere to raise the temps above 88 and add salt. I'm quite sure the temp+salt is what got rid of the ick and the waterchanges probably helped the ammonia. But now that things seem better how long before the fish are safe to move out or into this tank?

Lady Hobbs: you mentioned a 5 day lifecycle for Ick, is that a safe number of days for quarantine after an Ick outbreak.


Thanks,

Kevin