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Cm25fl
01-19-2012, 08:41 PM
So I just went to my lfs to have my water tested.and the guy told me that my nitrate and nitrite levels are fairly high and will eventually kill all my fish. My tank is a 46 gallon bowfront with a green terror,red terror,gold gourami,red line shark and a blue lobster. Now he also said my ammonia was zero and everything else was fine. I just did my usual 10 gallon weekly water change plus 1 gallon for evaporation and I treat my water with amquel+ before it goes in my tank. Nothing has changed in the tank and no fish have been added I did have one angelfish in the tank which was there last night but gone today. So my question is should I do a daily water change or could I just treat the whole tank with amquel+? My water change was done yesterday and my water was tested today. I've also noticed some of the fish mainly the red and green terror seem to occasionally "yawn". Any help or ideas would be greatly appreciated. Just in case it helps I feed them new life spectrum once a day and twice a week they get spirulina brine shrimp as a treat. My filter is a aqueon quiet flow 55/75(400gph) and there is also an airstone in the tank.

Cm25fl
01-19-2012, 08:49 PM
Oh and there is also a Cobalt blue zebra in the tank.

kurly
01-19-2012, 08:50 PM
Fairly High as in what are the NitrIte and NitrAte readings? Did they give you an exact reading? You need to conduct water changes to keep the parameters (ammonia, nitrIte and nitrAtes) as low as possible since you have fish in your tank.You really need to get an API liquid test kit for your own use so you are able to test your Parameters yourself to keep them in check. Especially if you are still having ammonia, nitrIte and High NitrAte levels in your tank after water changes.

Also I would switch to Prime water conditioner as it detoxifies ammonia and nitrIte among other things.

I take it that your tank isn't cycled? When did you set your tank up? As in how long has it been running with fish in it?

What do you mean your angelfish was there last night and is gone today? Is it dead in your tank somewhere?

I'm not sure if your stocking is too much for that tank but someone else on here can give you advice and direction on that.

Trillianne
01-19-2012, 09:11 PM
While I second the opinion on having your own test kit, I'm not going to get into the Amquel vs Prime debate. What you are using is fine and does the same job.

However, the NitrItes are a toxic issue you need to deal with immediately. Unfortunately you didn't provide readings so I can't speak to exactly how large of a water change you should go with... but most definitely go with a water change, and do a large one (50-75% would be great) If you happen to have the readings, and had a reading of 1.0, a 50% change would reduce that by half to .5 so that can be a guideline.

The NitrAtes are the end product of a cycle and you will generally have those in your tank even after its established. Aim to keep that number lower than 40 ppm, (some will say less than 20 ppm).

If you know what the readings were, that will help you out immensely.

Cm25fl
01-19-2012, 09:12 PM
The tank has been setup since dec.26th and has already cycled once and then had another mini cycle. And there is no sign of the angel in my tank albeit actual fish or fish bits or anything.

kurly
01-19-2012, 09:12 PM
Oh, I also meant to say I'm glad you are here asking questions and trying to get things figured out for the sake of your fish. :ssmile:

Cm25fl
01-19-2012, 09:14 PM
I'm headed to go get exact readings on everything I will post them shortly

Cliff
01-19-2012, 09:15 PM
The tank has been setup since dec.26th and has already cycled once and then had another mini cycle. And there is no sign of the angel in my tank albeit actual fish or fish bits or anything.


I'm sorry, but I don't think your tank is done cycling. 4 weeks is too short of a time to be cycling with fish. That would explain why you are still having nitrites but no ammonia.

Your tank is getting close tho

Please read the cycling with fish thread (link in my sig) which can also give you some great pointers of what to do next

kurly
01-19-2012, 09:15 PM
I only suggested Prime because I was using Amquel+ a few years back after my tank was cycled and I began experiencing similar problems until I switched over to Prime. It was only suggested because of personal experience not personal opinion.

kurly
01-19-2012, 09:18 PM
I'm headed to go get exact readings on everything I will post them shortly

Try to get a testing kit if you can. Even if it's strips, it's better than nothing.

Cm25fl
01-19-2012, 09:55 PM
Ok I'm back with my test results ammonia 0,nitrate 20,nitrite 7.0,hardness 75,alk 60,ph 7.0 and chlorine 0. Any help would be greatly appreciated and maybe any ideas as to what could have caused this. Again thanks for your help

Trillianne
01-19-2012, 09:59 PM
The one to be concerned about is NitrIte.

You will need to do several large water changes to bring that down to a safer range for your fish. (Remember this is one that should be at 0)

Did you pick up a test kit of your own while you were out?

Like Cliff... I think its just cycling.

Cm25fl
01-19-2012, 10:03 PM
I'm going to pick up an API master test kit. But I wanted to get home and post my results do I can make my fish happy again. How big of a water change should I do and how often? And how long will it take to get everything to an acceptable range?and as soon as I'm done with the ebook I'm gonna read his link about cycling

Cm25fl
01-19-2012, 10:08 PM
And I'm assuming that's why my angel died? People keep telling me there very sensitive fish. But my big mystery is where did the angel go? This is my second angel that disappeared in the tank with no sign of the fish at all.

Cliff
01-19-2012, 10:09 PM
If that nitrite reading is accurate, I would do a 50% water changes right now (as Trillianne has already suggested), and a second one latter on tonight. Get your test kit then test your water. If the nitrite is still above 0.5ppm, then complete a third 50% water change. The stress of the water changes will be far less then the stress of being in 7ppm of nitrite.

You really need to bring the nitrite down below 0.5ppm.

After that, test your water daily. If the nitrite gets above 0.5ppm, complete a 50% water change. Once your nitrite has been at 0ppm 4 or 5 days in a row you should be cycled

Cm25fl
01-19-2012, 10:12 PM
Ok I'm on it! Thank u guys for the help I appreciate it very much

kurly
01-19-2012, 10:32 PM
I hope things work out for you and your fish cm25fl!

Keep up with those water changes as that's the best solution to your problem until your tank is completely cycled.

Also, remember to get that test kit as soon as possible so you know what your tank parameters are :)

Cm25fl
01-19-2012, 10:58 PM
Ok well I just got my work out for the day! Lol. And I do a 10 gallon change every week plus I add an additional gallon for evaporation should I stick with that or do a bigger change?

kurly
01-19-2012, 11:05 PM
More than likely will need to do more until your NitrItes come back down to 0. Sometimes you have to do a water change every other day depending on what the Ammonia,NitrIte and NitrAte readings are.That's why it's so important to have a testing kit. It's your guide to how much and how often your water needs to be changed.

Trillianne
01-19-2012, 11:26 PM
You need to do a bigger change if you are getting higher readings.

If you do a 50% change with a reading of 7 then you would have a reading of 3.5

If you only do 25% change (slightly more than what you are doing now) Then you would have a reading still over 5.

Cm25fl
01-19-2012, 11:31 PM
Hmmmm since I'm in the process of doing such large water changes would now be a good time to change out my substrate? It's currently blue gravel but I want to switch to something more natural so I was thinking about doing a mixture of pool filter sand and the black aquarium sand from my lfs. I would like to use the pool filter sand and this Eco-complete stuff I been hearing about but I can't find it. Any thoughts or ideas?

Cm25fl
01-20-2012, 01:43 AM
Well I did the first water change right away(50%) and you guys were spot on! It brought my nitrite down to 3.5 so when I get home tonight I'm gonna do another water change(50%) and test it again in the morning.again thank you guys for the advice and saving my fish!!:19:

geowashlaw
01-20-2012, 02:05 AM
If you are still at 3.5, I would do a 75% water change. And to answer your other questions - the high nitrites are most likely why your angel died and the other fish probably ate it if you didn't find it...

75% change would get you to about .9 ppm, which is still high.

Cm25fl
01-20-2012, 04:32 PM
Ok well that didn't work out how I was hoping! I did a 50% water change at 5pm and it dropped my level down to 3.5. So then I did another 50% water change at 10:30pm and woke up and tested it again this morning and it shot back up to 7.0 again!!!now I'm stumped and clueless and I don't wanna lose my fish please help!:scry:

Cliff
01-20-2012, 04:36 PM
For now, a couple of 50%water changes to reduce you nitrite levels to 0.5ppm or less, just like I had suggested yesterday. Repeat that today.

Then I would take a water sample in to be tested for nitrites so you can compare the results to make sure your nitrite test kit is accurate.

Cm25fl
01-20-2012, 04:45 PM
Should I keep doing them once a day until I can get it down to 0.5? And what would have caused it to go back up to 7.0 again?

Cliff
01-20-2012, 05:08 PM
You need to do enough waterchanges each day to bring down the level to below 0.5ppm. That might be one 50% water change, or it might be more than one waterchange.

I would first validate that your test kit is giving you accurate readings (after a few waterchanges today) as something doesn't sound right to me either

geowashlaw
01-20-2012, 05:33 PM
From your original post, it looks like you have four fish and one blue lobster in there. How big are they? The larger the fish, the more waste, which in turn creates more ammonia, which in turn creates more nitrites. You also said you have two dead angels that are unaccounted for. If the other fish destroyed the carcass, but there are bits and pieces in your substrate and/or filtration system that are rotting, that also produces a lot of ammonia. At least you know that you have the first stage of the cycle complete ... you have the bacteria to convert ammonia to nitrite. Now, you are just waiting on the ones that convert nitrite to nitrate. You will probably have to do multiple water changes every day until you have enough bacteria to handle the nitrites.

Cm25fl
01-20-2012, 05:46 PM
All my fish are still juveniles less then 2 inches. And I went back to the same store where I was testing and it still showed a level of 7.0 which is what stumped me. And I haven't found any sign of the angel and my gravel is thoroughly cleaned since I been doing all these water changes. Well I'll just keep on doing water changes and hopefully get rid of this problem. I don't wanna lose my fish or see them unhappy or stressed

kurly
01-20-2012, 05:53 PM
That is a high amount of NitrIte still. Keep doing those water changes as you said. Do you have plants in this tank? or other things in which the dead angel may be lodged in between or under?

geowashlaw
01-20-2012, 06:02 PM
I would say something in your tank is kicking off a high amount of ammonia resulting in high nitrites. Did you ever get your own test kit? My LFS tests with strips, which are way less accurate than the liquid. It is worth the investment. I still test my tank at least once a month, just to be sure everything is good.

Cm25fl
01-20-2012, 08:26 PM
Ive checked every nook and cranny in that tank there is no sign of the angel. Not a fin or a body or anything. And yes there is a couple plants in the tank. 3 of the "combo pots" from petco. But I'm gonna try 50% water changes daily hoping it will cure this problem. It's just weird having such a high nitrite level and everything else is ok. I thought I was on a roll there when I got it down to 3.5 last night. But having it go right back up to 7.0 this morning is really starting to bother me........

Cm25fl
01-20-2012, 08:27 PM
But again thank you guys for your time and patience. I really appreciate it

kross
01-21-2012, 10:55 AM
It's good that you got the nitrites down to 3.5 from 7, but that still isn't nearly low enough. Imagine someone holding a gasoline soaked rag in your face (7 ppm nitrites) and you can't get away from it no matter what you do, and it's there 24 hours a day. Now they cut the rag in half and took half away, but there is still half a gasoline soaked rag shoved in your face (3.5 ppm). Still not good. You need to get that down under .5 ppm, and keep it there.

You ask why your nitrites shot back up to 7 ppm overnight. Fish waste and decomposing food produce ammonia, all day every day. There are good bacteria in your tank that convert ammonia (very toxic) to nitrites (also toxic), and there is another strain of good bacteria in your tank that convert the nitrites to nitrates (much less toxic). You have the first bacteria, converting your ammonia to nitrites, but you don't yet have enough of the second to convert the nitrites to nitrates. It shouldn't be long until you do though, probably another week or so. Keep doing water changes to keep nitrites down under .5 ppm until the bacteria colony grows enough to handle it for you.

You seem hesitant to do more than one water change per day. It sounds like you're using buckets to change the water. If I had to change the water on a 46 gallon tank with buckets, I'd be hesitant too. Get a Python-style water changer, pronto! It hooks up to your faucet with a long hose to your tank, you turn it on, it sucks the water out of the tank and down the drain. Flip the switch on it, and it fills the tank back up with fresh water. They cost about $25 online. Aqueon makes a good one.

As for your missing fish, another place they could be (other than in the bellies of the other fish) is on the floor behind the tank. They could have jumped out.

Hope this helps!
-- Kevin

Cm25fl
01-21-2012, 04:27 PM
Thank you Kevin for the advice. And yes I was hesitant at first about doing multiple water changes at first only cuz after I did the second one in the same day it went back up to 7.0 it just seemed like alot changing out 100% of the water in only a few hours. And I don't mind lugging around buckets all day to preserve the health of my fish a couple Tylenol and I'm all good! But I did realize before that I was doing my water changes the hard way by carrying the old water out my porch and dumping it and then refilling it in my kitchen sink with the sprayer(which took forever to fill) and then lugging it back across the house to refill my tank. And then I thought HEY I have a huge garden tub less then 10 steps away fromm tank I should just dump the water in there and refill the bucket in like 5 seconds! Lolthumbs2: And as far as the angel it's either in a fishes stomach or my cats stomach if she managed to jump out of the tiny opening in the back. But I'm gonna keep on my water changes like I was told until I get a consistent reading of less then 0.5