New Tank, New Owner, Needs Advice

[slinky]

Hi guys - I just bought a new tank, several freshwater fish, and have grown oddly attached to them in 2 days. I'm suffering from new pet paranoia :D and would REALLY appreciate some assistance. I read a lot here and probably some of it would have been better knowing earlier. :) But there is so much disparity/diversity of opinion and inconsistency sometimes so I'm hoping you can guide me through the early stages. :) I'll give you info of my setup.

The tank: A tall 10 gallon hex tank (it fits in my living room) and took some experimenting to figure out what combo really works, ornaments, etc. because of the smaller surface area. Aquaclear 50w heater, Penguin 100 bio wheel power filter, Tetra Whisper 10 Air Pump, didn't want to skimp and go cheap with what was in the shop. Nice bonsai tree with many leaves, a rock to provide cover, large 24" hanging vines.

The fish: I got smaller fish, most that don't grow very much over time - 1 gorgeous fancy betta, 1 sleek rainbow shark, and 2 beautiful gold/yellow mollies. The combo play very well together and seem to have plenty of space in the tank. There seem to be enough hiding spaces, which benefit the shark and betta, although there is one space they all like best.

(1) I only cycled the tank for a day because I was told that using the API Stress Zyme would get plenty of bacteria in the tank in a few hours. All of them went in roughly 24 hours later but they seem to be really happy for the last 24 - should I be worried? Yes, I tested like crazy and it's hard to see the colors perfectly on pH, etc. but it seems all to be within good levels, virtually no ammonia.

(2) The water is somewhat cloudy. Many here say it will clear up eventually although others disagree and give all sorts of advice (gravel wasn't washed well enough, use the AccuClear, etc.) With small water changes every few hours, it might be a tad clearer this evening. Should I just let the tank do its thing the next few days and not worry about some clouding?

(3) I bought 2 thermometers just to be sure (Zoo Med digital and Marina standard mercury) and when I came home after work, both read between 82.8 and 85 degrees respectively. That seems to be very warm but the fish seem to be very active. I don't think the room temperature is that warm but during the day with A/C off... The heater is set to 75 and I've tried to lower the temperature very gradually with the A/C (it's across the room at least 12-14 feet away) and have got it down to 82 and 84 degrees. I hear too much will make them sick. How do you handle this? Is this temperature acceptable for them?

(4) Food - I realize Bettas are a little different. I have TetraMenu Tropical Flakes and TetraAlgae which I was told to vary. I also got Atison's Betta Pro for the Betta. Is this good food? Do I need to worry about the other fish eating the Betta food? Should I feed them live worms on occasion as was suggested?

(5) All of them, especially the mollies who like open area, love jumping on the air pump output and riding to the top of the tank (benefit of a vertical.) But I've noticed the mollies like to put themselves against the side of the tank and ride quickly up and down - I don't think it's "ich" because they aren't rubbing against plants, just this kind of sliding. Is this normal? Are they having "fun" or is this a sign of some kind of stress? They seem to be the most active fish of all in general so this might not be an issue.

OK... I think that's enough for now. I REALLY appreciate all the advice you guys could give to a new aquarium owner who loves his new fish. :)

[zackish]

Welcome,
Ok lets start with the most important.....the stress zyme you bought. It doesn't work for crap.
Now you are into a frustration time consuming dilemma for the next month.
The only thing that will cycle a tank in several days is Marinelands Biospira which is refridgerated.
Now what I would recommend doing is going out and buying a API master test kit for about $30. Now start by monitoring your ammonia. You are going to have to do a small water change when you start seeing the ammonia rise to even 1.0 ppm. Change maybe 2-3 gallons of the water.
After a week or so check out the nitrItes. If these are rising that is good you will need to stick to doing your water changes.
If you read some of the articles on fishless cycling this is what happens. Ammonia is converted into nitrites by bacteria. After that bacteria is formed that eats the nitrites and converts them to nitrates.
The reason why I said you have a dilemma is because it make take 2 months for you to completely cycle your tank. The benefit in doing a cycle with no fish is you can dump pure ammonia into your tank w.o harming anything. After a week or so the ammonia is converted and you are on your way with a nitrite spike. The nitrite eating bacteria take longer to produce so you might be at this spike for several weeks. Once the nitrite goes away and you have 40+ nitrate you are most likely cycle.
However, the problem is you have fish and they are real sensitive to ammonia and nitrites so you can let that stuff get too high or they will die. When you keep changing the water it will disrupt the bacteria colonies and only take longer.
If any of the fish die I would recommend not replacing them. Chances are if one or 2 of them die the rest will too.

Now the second problem comes in but it's much simpler...a rainbow shark does not belong in that tank. Because you bought the stress zyme and whoever told you it would work I am guessing you bought all your stuff at petco or petsmart or something of that sort. If you did there should be some kind of warranty on the fish or a return policy. I would bring the shark back and get your money back. Going back to the cycling, if you did buy your fish at a store like I listed above you might want to try to bring all your fish back. Read up on fishless cycling and go from there. That is your choice, just know the fish will always be there and you can save yourself a lot of time and frustration by returning them if possible.

The equipment you listed is nice, you might not need air but it's ok if you have it in there.

The clouding will clear up in several days but may start again when your bacteria starts to form. However, since you will probably be doing a water change every day or other day you should never really have any cloudy water.

I would bring your temperature right down to about 79. In my case, I don't even have my heater plugged in and my water stays at 79, at least during the summer at least. I don't know if the heater you have has a "center point" or whatever you want to call it but my heater and some others have like a neutral zone where the thermostat is preset at about 75-79 degrees. It is kind of a starting point to adjust how warm or cool you want your temp.

You won't need the tetraalgae, that is for like bottom feeder fish and algae eaters. You can feed worms as a treat several times a week. I think for all the fish basic flake food will be fine because all the fish are going to eat whatever you put in there. You won't get the betta to eat seperate. This brings in another problem because many people wouldn't put a betta in a tank like yours. You can see how it works out but it will be a hit or miss.

The last thing is about your aquascape. I don't think mollies like to usually hide they are more open water swimmers so I wouldn't worry about making more "hiding places" or anything. Same with the betta. My main concern would be bringing the rainbow shark back. I don't know much about them other than it doesn't belong in your tank.

I hope this helped for now. If I seemed blunt about something or another I am not. Just giving you facts that I am aware of. I think most of the people here would agree with MOST of what I said. I may have made a few mistakes but I am only a few months into fish keeping. Don't hesitate to ask quesitons here we are all here to help. You made a few mistakes and hopefully the information provided can help you from where you are at this point. I would say just research, research, research, anything you think about just research it and you will learn so much from just reading. We all make mistakes, nothing to be ashamed of.
I hope you enjoy our community and like I said you gotta question just post it up here and most people will be glad to help.

[slinky]

Thanks for the reply... much appreciated. I think problem number one has occurred when I did the ammonia check tonight and it was approximately 1.0. There was room at the top of the tank so I removed about a quart to a half gallon of water and replaced it with some fresh water. It may slow down the cycling but hopefully the fish will make it through tomorrow until I can get some Ammo Lock (I think it is called) and neutralize the Ammonia that is in there. Perhaps that is why they are so active. I'm really nervous now and hope that a day like this will just irritate them a little and that's all.

From reading up more, it would seem feeding them the minimal amount might be a good idea. The less waste the better until it can be neutralized. I may have overfed them slightly today which might be part of the reason for the buildup.

Regarding the fish, you are right. I got them at Petland. It's beyond return time and the shark seems to be doing pretty well (for now.) They had him with Clown Loaches I think and another species. For whatever reason they are all behaving themselves. Well... while they are hopefully still alive. They are beautiful and I hope they will be able to ride this out...

[A340]

Since you already have the fish in your tank, I would highly recommend buying a bottle of Seachem's Stability. It will keep providing beneficial bacteria into your tank and filter boosting the tanks cycling process (since you have the fish in already) as well as protecting the fish from any stress caused by any spikes in water chemistry during the nitrogen cycle.

[Lady Hobbs]

Your water is cloudy due to the stress zyme. If you add more than is recommend or more often than is stated, you will get a lot of algae. Whether it works or not is debateable. I used it myself but I didn't see the tank cycle any faster using it than when I didn't. It will clear up.

Betta's often do not get along with others which is why you see them alone in stores. Some have better luck with them than others but generally they will go after bright colored fish. They are NOT a good fish to use for cycling a tank and I would retire him to a vase until you can get the tank cycled altho you will need to do water changes in the vase often, as well.

The shark has got to go. Sharks don't belong in a 10 gallon tank.

[slinky]

Thank you all for your replies! Very much appreciated! So far so good!

(1) The water has cleared up noticeably today, only partially assisted by the 15% water change this morning.

(2) The ammonia was still at 1.0 end of day. I got some Ammo Lock to remove it later in this evening and I'm guessing it will go down shortly. The fish still looked pretty happy and I'm glad I caught this.

(3) Temperature is stuck at 82.4 although they seem very happy. Could be that both thermometers are a little high but I'll try to bring them down maybe a degree this evening.

I can't really take the shark back any more but he seems very happy in the tank. Oddly enough, all the fish get along very well. The betta seems to be just fine with the bright yellow-gold mollies and he actually enjoys playing on the air bubbles every once in a while and riding to the top. The betta and shark both like playing hide and seek and coming out although the shark prefers to hide a lot but seems comfortable around the other fish. That said, if he's not going to be happy (I'll try to give him away) what other fish might you suggest? I figure that four small fish in this tank is the limit for them to all be happy. Thanks again to all and hopefully I'll be able to ride this one out. :D

[calla]

well I am new to the hobby of keeping fishies, but sharks quickly became one of my favorites. When I learned that the beautiful bala sharks I loved could grow up to 12 inches, I commited myself to providing them the space they need as they grow. I have already switched them from the 20 gallon they started in, to a 55, with plans of getting a 100+ very soon.

If your shark is just a baby, and you have room to get a (much) bigger tank within a month or so, keep him. If not, I think the returns at petsmarts/petcos are usually 14 days... you might want to make sure it's not too late.

... he'll grow to about 6 inches, and like the balas, would rather the water be about 75.

[troy]

Keep the tetra algae. It for fish that like pecking and grazing at algae not algae
eaters and such. Most livebearers like that kind of fish food especially mollys which ABSOLUTELY need it.

[slinky]

Thanks so much for the advice about the shark. He's no more than 2.5 inches from head to tip of tail. My thought is that if he grows another inch over the next few months, that's fine. I'll eventually be moving to a bigger tank, probably a 24 gallon square. At worst, I'll give him away.

Thanks so much about the info on the food too. But I am having a HORRIBLE time with testing kits. First of all, it is SO difficult to tell exactly what color something really is. Then over time some of them change color and get darker. But here is the real kicker - my testing kits are inconstent. I have an API ammonia test kit. It keeps telling me consistently that the water has a 1.0 ammonia level, maybe a little higher. I put in the ammo lock 2 and the color stays the same (supposedly it's just not harmful.) I bought Mardel LivenNH3/4 and LivepH indicators. The LiveNH says that the waters are perfectly safe and are yellow - not the green color. How is this possible? Next the LivepH seems to say that the pH level is now 7.0-7.2, but it's really difficult to tell the color in my light. The Wardley kit I have says 6.6-6.8 and the API says 6.4-6.6. Who do I believe and how can I best read the level? Is there some digital reader with a probe that would make this a simple process?

Tonight I replaced 25% of the water because of the ammonia problem. It may take longer to cycle the tank but it's worse if there is a lot of ammonia in there. Thanks for your advice. It's tough just getting this to work with my great fish.

[calla]

Thanks so much for the advice about the shark. He's no more than 2.5 inches from head to tip of tail. My thought is that if he grows another inch over the next few months, that's fine. I'll eventually be moving to a bigger tank, probably a 24 gallon square. At worst, I'll give him away.



I don't want to discourage you, but, as you might have noticed, your shark is a very active fish, and he'll need a lot of room to swim. Ideally he needs a tank of 48 inches in length (55/75 gallons). The smallest tank I would put him in would be 36 inches. Also, make sure there are plently of caves, plants, rocks and wood in the tank as he likes to designate, and defend, his territory.

[Bill M.]

FYI, Ammo-Lock will NOT REMOVE AMMONIA, rather it chemicaly changes it into ammonium *I think thats what its called* which is less toxic to the fish. I would go with API's Stress Coat. It is a wonderfull product, and most of us here at the forum use it. It dechloinates, makes ammonia safe, and aids in the production of the slime coat...Listen to Alizee... Seachem's Stability *Just called Stability* is a wonderfull product.... It helped me cycle my tank in 2 weeks......

[slinky]

OK... thanks to the advice in this forum, I got rid of my favorite rainbow shark. You're probably right... he'll grow quickly and perhaps he hides more than he should. So I traded him in for a tiny albino cory who is very active on the bottom of the tank. So far they are all getting along and the cory is insane and will probably clean up the whole tank himself. He's a little nuts though and runs into everything.

50% water change tonight since ammonia again at about 1.5 (but there was ammo lock in earlier water.) I have ordered Seachem's Stability which will arrive tomorrow. :malelovies: I added in 10ml of Stress Coat which I had on hand and added a tad of Stress Zyme to make sure that the bacteria I removed with so much water might continue the cycle.

Mardel's LiveNH for ammonia seems like a POS. It's always registering "safe" and the LivepH hasn't moved but it looks like I'm at a 6.8 or 7.

Thanks so much everyone. Four days and the fish still look good. New cory is very happy in his home. Any further tips greatly appreciated as I'm learning a tremendous amount quickly.

[Bill M.]

At an ammonia level at 1.5, fish can experience gill burn, which often is fatal. I would be doing daily 75% water changes to try to keep the NH4 levels in check. Is it possible to get some gravel from a friend who has an established tank? A cup or two in a pair of pantyhose stuck in your tank, known as seeding, will do wonders for your water parameters. Make sure to keep the gravel in dechlorinated water while in transport so the bacteria won't die. If not, give your lfs a call and ask if you could have some. I wouldn't get any from a commercial store such as petsmart/co/land/ranch...etc...