Questions Discus pairing and breeding.

[menthol]

hello, i am a seasoned planted tank keeper but a novice discus keeper. about a month ago or more, i bought 4 juvi 2" discus and a few days following that, i bought 2 bigger 4" or bit bigger discus.

my tank is well planted and water chemistry is top notch. to be detailed, NH3 and NO2 are both undetectable, NO3 does not go above 10ppm, now that i'm keeping discus, i'm keeping my PH at 6.5 and my KH at 5-6. the juvies was all skittish and not eating for the 1st couple of weeks but now are monster eaters and follows me around the tank. my concern is on the two bigger discus. i picked them out of a group of 6-10 in the LFS. they were not skittish inside the bare bottom tank with other discus, was looking to feed everytime i put my hand on the top of the tank.

ever since i placed them in mine more than a month ago, they both hide when people are close to the tank. they have not touched or ate a single morsel of food whether its bloodworms, beefheart, pellets, flakes, shrimp. Live or frozen, it does not matter, even if it was falling right in front of their noses.

yesterday, i was cleaning my glass witha magnet cleaner and i was surprised that they were not scared at all when the cleaner got close, instead, they are focused or in attack mode towards the cleaner. looking closely behind the both of them was an amazon leaf full of eggs that they are protecting.

so it has led me here to ask:

How come they are still alive even when they are not eating from what i'm giving?

I was guessing that spending all their lives in a fish farm now terrifies them in a natural setting?

Did they paired off during all this time and spawned or maybe they are both females and just spawned naturally due to good conditions?

Should i really let them it their eggs as this is their first spawn like i have been reading? i wanted them to eat something and if that is their own eggs then so be it.

Tank is a 135 gallon. i know discus needs daily or at least frequent large water changes but since i am keeping them in a huge tank, i was thinking i can get away clean on a 50% WC once a week?!? RO water is used to keep my PH in the low range.

with them in the tank are a throng of rummy nose, a school of gold neons, a pack of black neons, a pack of cardinals, few guppies, a throng of Otos, and a few corys and a bristlenose pleco.

Here's the tank
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here are the juveniles
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[menthol]

the two 2 bigger ones:
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heres the two guarding the leaf with eggs
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thanks for taking the time to read and i hope some of you fellow hobbyist can help me.

[WhiteDevil]

They are eating at night, Ive got two pair that do that exact same thing, they guard while lights are on and they are eating off the bottom at night(taking turns)

I got a 210 with 13 discus in it. I do a 50% RO PWC every 3 days. I get eggs but on that 3rd day the water level drops below the eggs and they are toast.

They are curios in nature, use some very LIGHT finger raps on the tank glass down low or up bu the trim ring or on the upper trim ring itself (or euro brace whatever you have) they usually come out really easily just due to curiosity.

The dither fish might be too active for them, what are the dimensions of the tank? what filter system do you have? what lighting?

I suggest maybe some floating plants if you can they really like shade cover and not having it they will hide.

[menthol]

thanks for posting a reply, i've already thought of most of the things you said but cannot quite get assured of those until now. tank is L72 x W18 x H24 filtered by an Eheim 2078, CO2 injected, LED lighting. i will try the glass taps.

i see what you mean that they guard during lights on and feed at lights out, BUT, what i was leaning to be sure of is.... they've been like these even way before they are guarding a spawn. if they have always been feeding at lights out, i dont think they've got enough to eat just by going through the substrate. am just afraid for their health. somehow, the phrase "they are just like that in a new tank, they'll be okay in the end" is beginning to get a dimmer meaning after more than a month.

thanks.

[WhiteDevil]

discus use their fins and "blowing" to kick food up off the bottom, they find it, if they truly stop eating they get small quick.

Add some floating plants to the mix to give them some cover since you are using a canister filter, I use wet/dry sump filters so floaters dont work at all, I need plants that get tall and grow across the surface of the water.

[Cermet]

If the discus are breeding with the water changes you are doing, then it works. Tank breed are more tolerate but you are lucky.

A breeding pair with eggs are going to have issues with other discus but to have a number of other types of fish besides, is going to keep the pair in constant worry and stress. It would be best, now that you have a pair, to move them after this batch of eggs are cycled to a seperate tank (bare bottom) like a 55 gal.

Very glad that they breed. Good luck.

[Lady Hobbs]

Never had discus but the posters above both gave good advice. Have you tried turning off the lights at feeding time or a while prior? But I think them pairing up and having this spawn has simply got them more interested in something besides food. The idea of some floating plants may just be the trick, too. They look really nice.

[menthol]

thanks everyone, i will keep in mind and try your suggestions. all the eggs are gone by this morning. i have no idea who ate it, but i doubt that it wasn't them who ate it. i will stay on vigil till their next spawn... if ever.

so, all ya are sure that i have a mating pair and not just a couple of females laying unfertilized eggs? because i have 2 female german blue rams in the same tank that constantly lay eggs and eats it all the time, i was wondering that maybe that discus' does the same thing, kinof a "call of nature" kinda thing.

thanks again!

[Cermet]

A quick hint to induce breeding in a pair: change the water (85% or so) and drop the temp a bit ( 1.5 - 2.5 C. Start temp about 29 - 30 C.) The pro's use temp drop with a water change, also. Keep the water clean but don't do such big changes with eggs - I aim for 50% but will do twice if the eggs are too high for that to work.

With eggs, worms (frozen) are a good idea. Avoid brine shrimp - don't want the parents to get ideas about small swiming creatures ... .

Other fish will always eat eggs and the parents will eat the eggs if other fish cause them to get really stressed (too many other fish or unable to keep the area free of fish.) Your best bet is to move them to a new tank (alone) but feel free to include fake plants. A breeding pair works very well in a 55 gal tank and those are not expensive. A sponge filter works but I use a HOB with a fine mess on the intake. A canister is not a good idea when eggs are in the tank due to high flow and the intake flow.

I use a breeding cone but slate, clean wood or even a large plant (real or fake) works.

I have failed to get the eggs to hatch either because they eat them after three days (or maybe the male just doesn't get it ... .)

Hope you have better luck! :hmm3grin2orange:

[menthol]

Thanks for all the awesome responses guys. i decided not to ask anymore questions lately and put my head on research and observations about discus fish. it has been almost a month now that i have been trying real hard to keep up with these pair of discus, armed with the infos that you all gave me and a few more internet, magazine articles and YOUTUBE..... i think i'm almost toe to toe with this pair of fish o' mine.

I do water changes once a week, that is 50% deep well water each time. water is real hard, around 14 dKh and a PH of 8, since this a planted tank setup, CO2 injection of up to 12hrs/day brings the PH down to around 6.5. water temperature plays around 82-84F depending on the time of day. NH3/NH4 and NO2 are both undetectable and NO3 is tested 10ppm or below before a water change. Liquid ferts are dosed everyday.

i think the water changes that i do induces breeding on this pair. 3-4 days later after a weekly WC i find them guarding eggs on a sword leaf. In less than a month after my last post here, the pair (which up until tonight i though were both females) have spawned 3 times. But a day more later after each spawn, eggs are gone or eaten.

Now... ever since i saw their first spawn, i was in serious thought that i have 2 females rather than a pair. i was thinking that the reason that i see eggs being produced a lot was that they were taking turns spawning each week. tonight i actually caught them breeding/spawning while i was feeding the tank.

I saw some videos on the net, but i thought i should ask you folks here first since you've got the xp's on these matters before i get too excited.... When i saw my pair of fish spawning, they took turns rubbing their bellies on the target leaf. one was obviously laying eggs as i see it coming out of its "THING" behind it's anal fin, and the other one following with just rubbing or doing what the other one was doing on it's belly on the eggs. SO IS THIS HOW IT REALLY IS? or DOES 2 FEMALES DO THE SAME THING AT THE SAME TIME?

after they were done spawning, i covered the leaf with the eggs with some netting to protect the eggs from predators or from them (i think i've read this technique somewhere). I hope i was not doing anything wrong by doing that. another reason for doing the netting is that i wanted to wait and see if the eggs really do get fertilized. HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE for the eggs to turn into a darker color, indicating fertilization, after they were LAID? hours? day/days?

thanks again guys!

[MuckyFish]

From what I have read about discus is that you should see different shapes breeding tube. The males breeding tube should be more pointed than the females. Also, unfertilized eggs are expected to turn white a day or two after the spawning. Cermet may be able to describe the differences better than I can.