Setting up a new Discus tank need advice

[buddah001]

I am not new to the hobby. I have had fish tanks all my life in one form or another. I have a 180 gallon reef ready tank that I want to set up as a Discus tank. And I already have a Fluval FX5 canister filter. So i at a desicion that I need help with. Do I take out the overflows and use the canister filter and plug the holes in the bottom of the tank or use the overflows and buy a new sump style filter with the bio-wheels and put it under the tank in the stand?
I am also planning on making this a heavily planted tank. And was wandering if the substrate from aquarium plants.com is worth paying for. Its the freshwater plant substrate. Do i need to do CO2 injection?
Then what type of lighting and how much is needed for a 180g tank.
I really appreciate evryones help here. Yes I am a newby to this forum but if someone can chime in it would help alot. I do not want to relly on some young kid in a LFS to make the decisions for me.

[Cermet]

Hello and glad you are doing a discus tank - they are lovely and very intelligent fish. You will be very happy with these guys.

I have kept discus for a few years and some things about keeping them is well known and agreed on and some is your call. I will provide what works for me and most (but far from all) agree on.

First, you said nothing about water changes (WC) and that is a big issue. For breeding (if you are interested or if you are buying two inchers (a word?) to raise) you MUST change as close to 100% of the tank water a day as possible. For young a 75% a day change should work but don’t expect the biggest fish that you see at stores or photo’s.

For adults and a mature tank, some use as little as 100% WC once a week - however, I feel that is a bit under and would add a 50% mid-week. Remember - two 50% WC in a row does NOT equal a 100% WC - that is a 75% WC!

Plants – I have one tank with discus for plants. I use passive CO2. An injection system is useful but remember – the CO2 tank will be used far faster due to WC.

Any sand should work but, of course, the better quality, the better your plants will do. I use home depot play sand (I think pool sand is better but can’t easily get to such a store,)

Filtering is secondary to water changes. Canisters are best for most users but an over flow system with a wet/dry filter is a really great system and you can’t go wrong either way. An overflow could be nice IF you have good well water and can do a constant feed. If you need to treat, that is not possible to do.

Any lighting system works for discus but plants do best with a proper system – so think about shading for the discus if the lights are strong.

Feeding (you didn’t ask): young need to be feed five to six times a day no if or buts. Adults, feed twice a day. The better quality pellets and some live food (worms) are a good way to get them big and healthy.

Temperature: these fish do best in the high range (for fresh water fish) so 84-86 is great but 82 works. (for sick fish or if not eating, 90-92 F works great for 1-2 weeks.)

Please ask follow up questions and I am sure others have more info. Enjoy this great forum.:hmm3grin2orange:

[WhiteDevil]

You can put bulkheads and plugs in your supply and return holes inside your overflows to stop them from leaking however this leaves an opening for fish to get into and Ive had to fish out 6" discus out of my operational overflow pockets.

I have a 210 and do 100g WC 2x a week. Mine breed just fine in there and live happily. My advice, get a UV sterilizer. you can do a wet/dry filter for under $300 bucks brand new to utilize the overflows and also use the FX5 at the same time, it will keep the water much cleaner then just one or the other.

I have the gravel from AP.com and to be honest, I just bought 400 pounds of baylee'e better bottom for it, I have the black diamond now but it is VERY light and is not the best to vacuum as it does get lifted fast and you will dump more gravel then water if you arent careful, IMO its not worth the price for the headache of it drifting everywhere.

I have Co2 injection and Ive had the same 5# tank on it for 3 months now, I was going thru it like crazy but I adjusted lighting time and am using pure RO water (with equilbrium from seachem) and it is at 6.4Ph so my tank stay at 6.4, I use digital aquatics SL1 controller for temp,ph lighting ect controls.
If you go heavily planted Id opt for the Co2, Also with lighting, it depends on your needs, I run 640w over my 210 which is about 3.1wpg and my fish do just fine, I use the TEKLIGHT 5' model with 8x80w 6500K geisemans for bulbs.

Discus are not hard at all, we went from keeping africans to keeping discus in the blink of an eye. Your hardest part is finding high quality livestock, I have a few links I can give you when you are ready, I only recommend whats made my dollar pay off. One breeder was out of two strains I wanted so he gave me a proven pair of each strain that he was out of.
Shipping isnt that bad but it pays to live close to an air cargo airport.

Good Luck on the build.

[buddah001]

I have kept Discus years ago. And I know they require alot of water changes. I know as juves they need to be feed at least 4x a day. I am planning a 180g display tank heavily planted. Eventually I will stock it with 8-10 Discus. And some small schools of Tetras. My water is going to be just from the tap. That is one of reasons I am getting out of the reef hobby. I dont want to carry buckets of water anymore.I plan on using a python to do my water changes. I am not interested in breeding at all. The ph of my water is 7.0 and havent checked hardness yet. I already have 2-500w heaters and know to keep the tank at 83-84 degrees.
As far as it goes with the overflows. I would plug the holes and take the out of the tank completely. But now that I think about it might be best just to leave them. Get a wet/dry sump. And also run the FX5 canister also.
I am still undecided about the substrate and lighting.

[Cermet]

Your pH is excellent - unless breeding, which you know requires acidic water. Ditto on hardness so just ignore that, too. When you say tap, I guess you mean it is chlorinated and needs treatment.

Lighting depends on the plant types you want - whether a low light planted tank or high. Of course, a high wattage tank (and to a lesser extent a mid-level lighted tank) requires some type of CO2 system or algae will be a good friend. Ditto on needing to add MgSOx, K, and Fe or algae will run wild in a high light system. I use a yeast system and diffuser since costs of a CO2 tank is high and WC's really waste CO2.

Special (read $$$) sand really has some followers so hopefully, you can post a question on that subject in the plant forum and get types. I just use home despot ...(enough, I mean depot) sand but this very cheap (in all senses of the word) sand requires buying it in the ratio of 2:1 relative to amount bought to amount that ends up in the tank: that is, for every two lbs you buy, 1 lbs is lost in cleaning. Pool sand is far better. Root tabs and adding fluorite improves any sand.

Also, a discus tank MUST be cleaned well so you need to vacuum deep into the sand and stir it or use a reverse flow UGF (to keep out deep pockets in the sand from forming) with the canister/dry filter system.

Don't forget about food (pellets alone will not do a good job.) Also, keep salt on hand if the discus get ill - high temp and salt will cure most illness and is a wonderful tonic if they are not eating.

A 180 gal tank is big enough to hold more than ten discus so you could put very large wood in the tank with the plants.

A lot of places sell small young discus at very nice prices so feeding would be an issue and live food will be critical.
:hmm3grin2orange:

[WhiteDevil]

If the tank is heavily planted there is NO NEED to vacuum it.

stay well away from sand, its very messy and planting in it is hard and if there are no substrate agitators you will get bad bacteria and gas pockets that instantly nuke the tank.

7.0 is on the high side for discus ive noticed with a stress factor. Ive found 6.6 or lower is best for them, 5.8 would be ideal but most the discus unless you do buy wild collected ones are raised on tap water and arent worth breeding for the cost involved. Thats the reason you see cheap discus and very expensive discus.

I breed livebearers for live food for my angel fry and having an extra 20H on hand to use for such things is nice and its pretty much free food when it comes to those fish. My discus eat hikari bloodworms and ken's flakes/FD tubifex([Only Registered Users Can See Links.]) exclusively, Mine just watch the pellets slowly sink down when they are tossed in there.

If you do go heavily planted in that size tank, get a pressurized Co2 set up and good lighting, 2wpg is middle and most if not all plants do fine in it, some flourish some dont but its middle of the line and keeps it subtle.

This is mine
[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

[fullmonti]

How funny is this? I just found this forum because I too have a 180gal reef tank & am going to change over to a planted Discus tank. I also have some questions & thought it would be OK to tag onto this thread being the same subject & all. Hope no one minds.

Any benefit using T5 aquarium bulbs & fixtures over the type fixtures & full spectrum bulbs you get at Lowe's?

I have a ozone system on the reef tank. Pro's & con's using it for planted Discus tank?

I have read people say UV sterilizers should & should not be used on this kind of setup. Reasons for both opinions?

Curent plan is initial setup with a few non Discus fish ( Tetras & cleaners) for awhile, then plants for awhile, then how long before the tank would be ready for Discus?

I am going to use a good size wet/dry filter already having the overflows & pumps etc. I have a water change plan in mind in the space the old sump sat in.

I have had planted tanks before, no problems. Never had used CO2 before, & I don't plan to this time either. I imagine growth rate will not be as fast, but that's OK I don't want to be trimming & cleaning that much any way.

If there is something that hasn't been ask or covered on this subject already I would appreciate opinions on that too.

This is only the third thread I've checked out on this forum & it is exactly what I've been looking for. Looks like I have come to the right place to get up to speed on Discus.

Thanks, & again hope it's OK to tag on to this thread.
Jim

[3dees]

your going to get different opinions on this. there are many old myths about discus that need to be changed. one is that you need low PH for raising discus. there are many people who raise and breed domestics in PH as high as 8.6. you do not need low PH to raise any kind of discus, including wilds. my wilds have been with me for 18 months and have grown into adults. they are as healthy as can be. I have never medicated my fish for anything and I use tap water for my wc's. I do one 70% wc per week and my PH is a steady 7.6. I will say that if trying to breed wilds, then 5.5 or 6.0 PH and low TDS would be needed, but wilds are not the easiest fish to breed and my tank is for show only. for substrate, I would go bb if you are going with juvies. I would'nt do plants either. it's much harder keeping a decorated tank clean. go with discus around 4" and you should be fine. you don't need CO2. you can have many lower light plants. if you have high lighting, then you will be better with CO2 or you will have an algae farm. I suck at growing plants so I went without any except for floating. sand is far easier to clean IMO. as far as filters go, either a sump or cannisters will work. when I first got my wilds I was told by one member here that my fish would be dead within 3 days. here is my tank after 18 months.

[MuckyFish]

Very nice pic of your wilds tank.

[Spardas]

Plenty of answers already for buddha so I won't chime in more till more questions are asked.

@ Jim, maybe it'll be good for you to start your own thread but I'll just answer a few.

If the type of lighting from Lowe are for growing plants, then by all means, you can use them. Not all plants can tolerate the high temperature of a discus tank so do some research on them. Many plants end up dying if you choose the wrong one.

As for ozone, it's definitely beneficial but only if you know how to use it correctly. It'll also help decrease the amount of water changes you'll have to do but again, I do hope that you know what you are doing with it because it can definitely kill your fishes if used incorrectly.

If you have UV lying around, you can use it, but you don't have to.

What kind of discus are you going to start with? Planted tanks isn't a good idea for juveniles. That is, if you wish to cultivate the planted tank while raising juveniles in another tank until they reach a larger size. Although it's not impossible to raise juveniles to adulthood in a planted tank; it's just more work on your part.

[fullmonti]

Ok thanks, I'd like some more details on some things so I'll start a new thread.

[Crispy]

all great advice above!

using your overflows and having a sump is the best filtration you can have. Along with your fx5, you'd be well on your way to a gorgeous setup. I keep an overstocked 190g full of big 'water-sensitive' fish (clown loaches, arowana). I have a 55g wet/dry, fx5, and 2 ac110s and they do helluva job.