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Strider199
08-13-2011, 07:31 PM
I'm at a loss as to what is up with my red cherry shrimp tank. I am losing 1 to 2 shrimp per day for the last two weeks. The shrimp are not even eaten by the other inhabitants. They are bright candy pink in colour and just sitting on the moss as if they died in their sleep.
The water parameters have been ammonia 0 ppm, nitrites 0 ppm, nitrates 0-5 ppm.

I have of course been doing water changes (25-30%) every other day and I have introduced an air stone to assist my hob (with sponge prefilter). The tank has plenty of jave moss and water sprite with one Anubis which flowers every month.

For the first 6 months, the shrimp were reproducing like shrimp should but I haven't seen a female with a saddle in about a month. I did have a war with those planaria flat worms which have been reduced in number but are still present. The only thing that comes to mind which may be a factor in the demise of the shrimp colony is a trap I made for the planaria using a water bottle. I peeled off the label but I couldn't get all the glue off the bottle. I hoped it wasn't toxic as the traps I saw on utube used said water bottles.
I'm pretty sure there has been no introduction of copper in this tank as there were no med's used at any time.
I use Prime with my water changes and feed sparingly since the flat worm out break. Vacuuming up any left over food that day.

Any suggestions would be helpful and welcomed.

smaug
08-13-2011, 09:01 PM
If your house has copper pipes then you cant be positive there is no copper in the water.I suggest a seachem CU test kit.They are more sensitive then any other I have used. If you cant get the seachem then any other kit will work but maybe not for very small amounts.

Strider199
08-13-2011, 09:08 PM
Yes the house has copper pipes and it does sound like a poisoning problem that I have going on in that tank. I just finished up another water change and I will check into an seachem CU test kit tomorrow at my two local lfs.

Thanks for the support Smaug.:22:

chrisfraser05
08-13-2011, 09:20 PM
maybe adding the airstone has caused your PH to change quickly.

Strider199
08-13-2011, 09:38 PM
I really hope this isn't a cause of a pH swing. My tap water is usually running at 7.8 pH while the tank measures 6.8pH. The substrate (Fluval Stratum), seems to lower the pH of the water. If a pH swing is that detrimental to my RCS I guess with my constant water changes due to my battle with those flat worms, is not a good strategy. I use a turkey baster to suck those worms up thus lowering the water line. I than replace the water with some I have sitting in a pail treated with Prime. I would suspect the water in the pail to be 7.8pH which means I am constantly raising the pH of the tank from 6.8 to 7. something every treatment. Are RCS that sensitive to pH?

smaug
08-13-2011, 09:52 PM
I have never seen an airstone change ph.But honestly,you would be better off if that were the case.If you have CU in the water it will be absorbed by everything porous in that tank making it damn near impossible to get rid of. That said,I think seachem makes a cu removing agent that may be of use.If they have the kit and the remover by them both just in case. I use cu for parasite treatment for sw fish,it is horribly persistent.

Yeah they do have a product. http://www.marinedepot.com/Seachem_CupriSorb_Copper_Remover_Chemical_Filter_M edia-Seachem-SC3271-FIFMCHCR-vi.html

chrisfraser05
08-13-2011, 09:57 PM
Depends how much CO2 gets gassed off.

I doubt it would swing as much as that but based on your readings and the presumption of no copper its all I could think of!

smaug
08-13-2011, 09:58 PM
Depends how much CO2 gets gassed off.

I doubt it would swing as much as that but based on your readings and the presumption of no copper its all I could think of!
Not busting chops,I was simply thinking out loud with my fingers.

Strider199
08-13-2011, 10:08 PM
I do not have a C02 running in the shrimp tank for the plants as I read it would harm the shrimp. I've just been reading on pH swings for RCS using Google and these shrimp seem to have a high resistance to pH but nowhere can I find what effects to the shrimp there are if the pH swings around 1.0 points. I'll cut my water changes down in volume for a while (I was changing out about 30% of the tank every other day while I was working on those flat worms) and I will pick up a copper test kit tomorrow.

Thanks Smaug and chrisfraser05 for the ideas and thoughts. I have something to follow through with. :22:

Maybe I should put some carbon back in my HOB filter for now? Thanks for the link Smaug.

chrisfraser05
08-13-2011, 10:14 PM
Not busting chops,I was simply thinking out loud with my fingers.

Nae worries, didn't think you were. Nothing like a good debate thumbs2:

smaug
08-13-2011, 10:33 PM
carbon will remove cu slowly.

Strider199
08-13-2011, 10:54 PM
There is a sheen on the water surface (I vacuum it off when doing a w/c) which I have always thought was just extra protein from the shrimp and their food. That is why I added the air stone to agitate the water surface.

I really wonder about that glue that was on the water bottle I used as a planaria trap. I cant find anything to specify that the glue that is used on water bottle lables is toxic.

Strider199
08-14-2011, 01:41 AM
Added some charcoal to the Aquaclear HOB filter so far and will pick up a copper test kit when the sun comes up.

Strider199
08-14-2011, 06:42 PM
Update; This morning I went out to look for a seachem copper test kit. The local lfs didn't have the seachem but they did have a liquid API copper test kit which I picked up along with the proper sized active carbon for my Aqua Clear HOB filter. I used a large one I had kicking around last night which wouldn't fit in the filter but I could get a quarter of it on top of my media.

Any how, the copper test came up at 0ppm in the shrimp tank so thats a good thing. Ruled out one potential killer.

Whats next?

Lady Hobbs
08-14-2011, 08:02 PM
Sorry about your shrimp. I have mine in a 29 gallon with good filter and an airstone. My pH is 7.6 right out of the tap. I see saddle-backs but no longer see wee babies. I believe they are getting eaten but the adults are all doing well. I give them an algae pellet or shrimp pellets nearly everyday. There's so many of them plus some otto's that I was afraid they weren't getting enough to eat.

smaug
08-14-2011, 08:18 PM
Good that cu didnt show up.Im not sure what to tell you for the next step though.

Strider199
08-14-2011, 08:21 PM
Thank you Lady Hobbs for your post. After having this little colony doing so well for the first 5 months and then seeing it struggling now has me scratching my head. Everything seems stable today and the remaining shrimp seem to be busy picking at the algae on the tank sides and plants so I hope the worst is over and soon the females will be doing their thing again.
I cant believe I'm so taken in my these little shrimp. I'm the only one in the family who actually likes watching their doings, well me and the cat.

Thank you AC members for the assistance.

Strider199
09-23-2011, 12:40 AM
Update a month later;

My shrimp are finally breeding again and there are young RCS back on the java moss!

Those planaria flat worms are manageable, I only see one very small one about every three days which I suck out and destroy.
I continue to vacuum weekly with my 30% w/c and I am feeding less then I used to. About 15 pellets of hikari tropical shrimp cuisina every second day.

Now I did break down and I purchased 6 new RCS from Big Als just to see if that would perk up the colony a few weeks ago. My new and original females are showing saddles so it's not just the new blood.

Happy again.:19:

ekfishlover2011
09-23-2011, 02:35 AM
Yay! Im so glad to hear it all got better for you strider! Hope nothing like that ever happens to you again! I have lots of those little white worm thing that crawl in the glass n my tank, idk if thats what planaria is, but luckily mine die off after a few days. Every time i feed the snail i get them the next day. Must be because there are only 4 shrimp and one snail, so not much of a chance for all the food to get eaten. But that will be solved soon. Hopefully its not a sign of imminent death.

Furface
09-27-2011, 12:56 PM
Poisoning of some sort is likely. Never heard of too much aeration or of it changing ph. My shrimp seem to frolic in the fine bubbles.
I avoid the copper pipe issue in my house by using rain water collected off the roof. I catch it after it has rained awhile and it comes clean, though still need to let it settle.
Need to add a complete mineral suppliment because it's like using demineralized water. The ph comes out good too, runs about 6.8-7 in the tank.

Strider199
09-27-2011, 11:26 PM
I avoid the copper pipe issue in my house by using rain water collected off the roof. I catch it after it has rained awhile and it comes clean, though still need to let it settle.
Need to add a complete mineral suppliment because it's like using demineralized water. The ph comes out good too, runs about 6.8-7 in the tank.


Neat concept Furface. Something to consider. Thanks.

Kelvinlim11
10-09-2011, 02:29 PM
I'm at a loss as to what is up with my red cherry shrimp tank. I am losing 1 to 2 shrimp per day for the last two weeks. The shrimp are not even eaten by the other inhabitants. They are bright candy pink in colour and just sitting on the moss as if they died in their sleep.
The water parameters have been ammonia 0 ppm, nitrites 0 ppm, nitrates 0-5 ppm.

I have of course been doing water changes (25-30%) every other day and I have introduced an air stone to assist my hob (with sponge prefilter). The tank has plenty of jave moss and water sprite with one Anubis which flowers every month.

For the first 6 months, the shrimp were reproducing like shrimp should but I haven't seen a female with a saddle in about a month. I did have a war with those planaria flat worms which have been reduced in number but are still present. The only thing that comes to mind which may be a factor in the demise of the shrimp colony is a trap I made for the planaria using a water bottle. I peeled off the label but I couldn't get all the glue off the bottle. I hoped it wasn't toxic as the traps I saw on utube used said water bottles.
I'm pretty sure there has been no introduction of copper in this tank as there were no med's used at any time.
I use Prime with my water changes and feed sparingly since the flat worm out break. Vacuuming up any left over food that day.

Any suggestions would be helpful and welcomed.

Hi, sad to hear your shrimps are dying.

I am a shrimp lover too. For water change, i do it once every 2 weeks, this is to prevent changes to water parameters too frequently.

For ph, if co2 brings down the ph, oxygen should bring up. But it should not be able high or low. Its always about the fluctuating ph that stresses the shrimps.

My basic rule is to keep things simple. For planaria, just do not overfeed that should solve the problem.

Lady Hobbs
10-09-2011, 03:00 PM
Altho it's often said that planaria are not harmful, I've read they can be if you have fry in the tank. I wonder if they couldn't have been feeding off the shrimp eggs? I have NO knowledge that such a thing could occur. Just a fleeting thought. :)

I enjoy watching my shrimp too. Such little workers they are. I notice my males swim back and forth in the tank and the females stick near the bottom mostly. I actually saw a male swim to the top of the tank, grab a fish flake 3 times his size, and drag it around the tank with him this morning. Seems to me he must be hungry to risk his life trying to eat among the very ambitious Harlequin rasbora that are aggressive feeders.