Hello All :) Another Newbie

[Awestruck]

I'm seriously considering changing my reef tank over to a discus tank and have many, many questions. I've done research but would like input from others.

1. My tank is a 65g. tall closed loop (3'w x 2'h x 18"d). Is this tank large enough to house 4 adult discus? From what I've read, they are a shoaling fish and are happy in groups of 6-10 thus my tank is WAY too small. :( So, should I just forget the idea of housing 4 discus?

2. Is doing a 10% weekly water change enough or is this insufficient for maintaining a healthy system?

3. I have no interest in my fish mating (well, unless they want to on their own lol).

4. I've read that a thin layer of sand is great for discus. What type of sand must be used. I currently have sand in my reef; could that sand be thoroughly rinsed and reused?

5. I understand they prefer low lighting, so would a t5 of say, 108w. be good, bad, not enough etc.

6. What type of filtration do you use? Penguin Biowheels, canisters etc.

7. I would be using my sump for extra water volume--however, is the flow coming from the return too much for the fish? How much water flow do discus prefer? What about water movement on the surface to ensure superb oxygenation? Is a powerhead a good idea? Do people use bubble wands and that kind of thing for more oxygen?

8. Are discus ok with fake plants as well as driftwood?

9. Do you use a Discus Buffer to ensure proper acidity? How about pH?

10. Um, that's all for now, I'm have more questions later. :)

Thanks.

[Strider199]

Welcome to the AC Awestruck.
I'm no expert but I would say a 65 gallon tank is large enough to house 4 adult discus.

Nice to meet you.:22:

[genocidex]

welcome to the great AC hope you find the info as useful as i do :)

[KuYaWill]

A lot of people use 55+ gallons for discus, but 10% water change is way too low. If you check any guide or site it suggests anywhere for 25%-100% water changes Daily (Yes I know this sucks :scry:) I do 25% changes daily. I also use aged water, just fill a big water barrel I have and age it for a day then put it in my tank. Discus will only mate in certain temp and PH. IMO any substrate would be fine but I use a very very small gravel type substrate. I hope your reef substrate isn't crushed coral or a ph raiser. I have normal lighting but dense plants for them to hide in + driftwood. But yeah they have big eyes, they don't like bright lights. For filters I use a emperor 400 bio wheel and a Hydro V sponge filter. Don't use canisters, I've read online that they just steal oxygen but you can check for yourself. I don't see why fake driftwood or plants would be a problem. You shouldn't use much chems at all for a discus tank... Only conditioner at the most. Captive bred discus don't need a 6.5~ ph honestly. I've seen discus handle 7.7 PH. They just need constant water changes.
Having constant water changes greatly lower chances of having your discus dying.
What some people say you don't NEED but I strongly recommend you get: A sponge filter, lots of plants, driftwood, UV sterilizer, a water container for aged water

[dnphillips08]

Welcome to the AC! :welcomewave:

[rich311k]

Welcome to AC! Just go to the discus section and start a new thread.

[DylanisHawttt]

Welcome to the forum :22:

[Cermet]

Discus are rather easy fish to keep if you meet their needs. First, answers that many (but not all) discus keepers tend to agree on.

1) A 65 gal tank is barely acceptable if you want the min safe number (six.) While 10 gal per fish is considered normal min. acceptable, the issue is that when sand/drift wood and other items are added a 75 gal is a good min for six. Adding some objects to the tank is a good idea (for a school, not nec. for a mated pair) to let the discus hid and use as places to establish territory lines to feel more comfortable with each other. That said, you can still use a 65 gal, just go easy on drift wood (rather, don't get really large pieces and extensive systems and you should be ok) and large plants. It will be tight and young will most likely never grow to full size but it will work.

2) 10% WC per week is very poor. That will not even work for regular fish! In a 65 gal tank with six large discus your nitrates will quickly go through the roof. Phosphates will always be off the charts.
A min. of 50% per week and twice per week would be a more workable min.

3)Don't worry, without 50% WC daily it is rather unlikely (but not impossible) that two will pair off and try to mate. 100% daily with a temp drop is the best method (but once induced, stop the temp drop.)

4) Bare bottom or sand are fine (bare bottom tanks need to be painted or covered on the outside/bottom of the tank.) Since discus hunt daily for bits of food, fine sand is essential for them if you do use a substrate so if they take some up, it does no harm. Gravel is a not a good idea relative to keeping the tank clean. Vacuuming sand is important so don't over look that for a sand bottom.

5) Artificial lighting is not important but if use high wattage levels, shaded areas are important.

6) Any over performance canister and/or biowheel/aquaclear HOB system(s) are good ideas (two systems that are independent are best.) Calm areas of the tank are critical.

7) Bubbles/extra air is a great idea since discus use high temps (and if ill, need very high temps (88-92 F so the heater(s) need to be able to go to that range.) Too high a flow rate in the tank is a very bad idea - most the tank volume needs to be fairly calm.


8) No plants, fake ones, or live are all ok. Drift wood works great - rocks are a very bad idea because when these fish 'take off' whenever they get spooked (happens sometimes for no apparent reason.)

9) Never mess with pH - if that is an issue use some R/O water. Buffer is ok but discus want very soft water that is acidic (5.6 - 6.2 depending on type.) That said, except for wilds, any pH works and hard water too - they just will not breed even with 100% WC's. Any way, adding buffer would seem expensive for WC's that occur often so not buffering makes more sense.

10) Misc.: High quality food (besides clean water) is the real requirements to keep discus. Some live food is a good idea. Discus need to eat twice a day and take their time (hunt for bits on the bottom) so give enough for some to have time to do this. A good (safe) clean up fish is the Sterba Cory. BN are used by some but even these will bother discus - these corys seem to be best overall clean up fish for use with discus (the Sterba's are a high temp fish and like the range discus do and never bother discus – discus have a high food value coating that attracts far to many other fish types.)
Young eat six times a day or else they will never grow correctly. Always keep some aquarium grade salt on hand for treatment if they get ill or have issues.

Others will add more - no fast rule except clean water, good temp and high quality food can never go wrong. Good luck! :hmm3grin2orange:

[Cermet]

A few minor side issues.

The most agreed on temp range for discus: 82 - 86F with 84F a good average. Never hold the temp below 82F but short periods below this are fine. Above 86F is most often used for treatment (often with salt @ 1 tsp/gal.)

Discus are best with only other discus but many types of smaller SA fish work if they can handle the temps - neons, cardinals, hatches often are found in the wild with discus so these are compatible. Angels are a bad idea for a number of reasons (far too aggressive, and they can carry illnesses that are dangerous to discus) but some do keep them together, so your call.

For live food, brine shrimp are best and a good (safe) supplier of black worms. Frozen worms (thraw out, don't boil) work well. Never use freezed dried - besides having little taste these tend to float and discus like to eat foods located in the mid water to bottom. :hmm3grin2orange:

[Lady Hobbs]

Several articles here on the care.

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[Awestruck]

Thank you so much for your responses. :)

I ran a beautiful freshwater tank for years before converting to saltwater so I know many of the basics for freshwater systems. However, a Discus tank seems different to me.

On a salt tank, a 10% weekly water change is VERY good as long as the bio load isn't super heavy and you have a kick-butt protein skimmer. I have both of those so changing 6-8 gallons per week is great for my tank.

I've talked with two people here where I live and they both suggested a good, solid 50% water change 2 x week; certainly understandable for a fish demading extremely clean water, and fish of their size. For me this would mean changing ~ 35g. x 2 week. That's a lot. However, I refuse to change to a discus tank if I am not committed to doing this because these beautiful fish would suffer and that's unacceptable. On the other hand, I am 50+ years old and this would require A LOT of work which I'm not sure I could handle after a while. Lots of bucket lifting. lol Getting older sucks sometimes (blush)

I have an RO/DI machine but it wastes SO much water. I am confused though--I thought Discus required very soft water, so to ensure that DI water would be good and/or a buffer to soften it. On the other hand, constantly changing acidity levels and pH levels is VERY stressful for any creatures, whether it be corals, marine fish, freshwater fish, etc.

So, I am very disappointed because I doubt I have the physical energy to change ~35g. x 2 per week. That's just a lot.

Lastly, I don't think my tank is really wide enough for Discus. I guess part of it depends on whether they are vertical or horizontal swimmers. But, there's no way 6-10 would be comfortable in my tank; I think 4 is pushing it and from what I've read, they need many more to happily shoal.

So...I sadly may have to forget this. :scry:

[Lady Hobbs]

Get a python water changer and it will take no physical hardship. I hook my python up, smoke a cigarette while it empties itself and drink a cup of coffee while it refills. LOL

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[Awestruck]

Really?!!!! I've never heard of this so I'll check it out. And, thanks. :22:

[3dees]

a python will be the best investment you ever make. I do 60-70% wc's every 5 days for my 120 gal. and I have a really bad back. I'm 61 and the python is my best friend. takes me about 40 min. for a wc and most of that time is just sitting waiting for the tank to empty and fill. don't worry about ph. many discus are kept in ph as high as 8.6. they will adjust. it's not so much about the volumn but the surface area. in a 3' tank you could do 5 with enough wc's, but a 4' tank would be better. if you get juvies (under 3") then your looking at a lot of feedings per day and 50% wc every other day at the very least. funny that you are going from salt to fw. I'm getting a little bored with my tank and thinking of selling everything but the tank and lights, and going with a sw fowlr tank. if you like all the activity in the sw tank, you may want to think about changing. discus are not an active fish. beautiful yes, but thier fastest speed is very slow, lol.

[Lady Hobbs]

Your thread has now been moved as it should have been and both threads merged together. Hope this will make it easier to get all your answers in one spot instead of two different threads.

Yes, the python is a wonderful thing and takes all the work out of water changes with no buckets to haul, no sloshing water. Empty, add dechlorinate and fill 'er up. DONE! Ya gotta get one!

And welcome to AC!

I disagree with KuYaWill's post not to have a canister filter. They are the best filtering there is for a larger tank. Water sitting in a pail for one day does not age it either. Water does not age that quickly. Some of the chlorine will dissipate but not the chloramines.

Discus tanks should be shared with only smaller fish, perhaps some tetra's. If you want to breed Discus, you will need another tank down the line.

[Cermet]

Get a python water changer and it will take no physical hardship. I hook my python up, smoke a cigarette while it empties itself and drink a cup of coffee while it refills. LOL

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

Sorry Lady Hobbs but you need to reconsider the smoking - your running this site needs you to continue for many, many more years. Besides all of us aquarium keepers that need your input you owe it to all the fish that need your help, too! :11:

I second the canister filter - those are great for discus: +1

[Strider199]

Thanks Lady Hobbs for moving this thread to the discus section. :22:

[Sandz]

I think that 5 discus in a 65 tank would work long term with propper care. And YES get a python. I have fibromyalgia and cant do the bucket thing. I have two just in case one breaks. Best thing EVER in fish.

On discus, yes they require clean water and they require the right nutrient rich foods but they (as long as they are not wilds) are coming long strides in being content with good housing on multiple PH levels and enviroments. I am doing a grow out of 6 in a 44 and moving them up to a 100gal after they get above 4in. In a 65 gal though I could see it working as long as its lightly scaped and laid out right, the water changes stay up and you really put the care into it. You have experience with SW, that and your posts show me you really care about the quality, and can devote the care needed to make this work. Being as they are a schooling fish, I feel the space they take up would be less compromised than say looking to put a couple angels in the same tank.

[Sandz]

Oh also, something you might consider along with the canister filter... I use 2 sponge filters with the airline attached to them to give that extra oxygen push and provide added filtration. The whole set up cost me 40 bucks for 2 filters and a duel airline.