No ammonia added-fishless cycle

[SkarloeysMom]

I set up my 20g long tank today! YIPPIE! Here's my temporary set up. http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa150/Skarloeysmom/IMG_2132-1.jpg
I have more decor to add and rearranging to do once I'm ready to add the fish. I want to do a fishless cycle without adding pure ammonia. The nearest pure ammonia is an hour drive and if I can avoid that it would be great.

I have established tanks so I'm guessing seeding this tank should not be a problem. The 2 pieces of wood are from the 10g and the 2.5g, about half the plants are from the 10g. Right now I'm using the cleaned up Whisper 20-40 that came with the set up. I stuffed it with polyfill plus the original bio sponge that I cleaned up.

In order to KEEP the ammonia that is in our tap water I used AquaClear conditioner. The reading after I filled the tank was .50ppm and the Ph was 8.8. (It will be interesting to see what effect the wood will have on the Ph during the cycling time.) Will the .50ppm be enough to jump start the cycle?

So what's the best way to continue seeding this cycle without the pure ammonia? Gravel from the 10g? Switching the AC50 off the 10g for the clean Whisper filter?

[Drumachine09]

The tank looks AMAZING!

I love the natural approach, thats what i try to do in my tanks.

[gm72]

Once seeded you don't need to add any more established items. You do however need ammonia. You really need a source of ammonia other than that which is in the tap water. Otherwise you'll have to be doing enormous water changes, which will in turn set back your cycle.

[SkarloeysMom]

The tank looks AMAZING!

I love the natural approach, thats what i try to do in my tanks.

THANKS Drum! Your opinion means a lot to me. Since I started reading this forum and seeing all the beautiful natural looking tanks I've gone from letting my 4 year old pick out kitschy theme decor to not asking him and doing the designing myself. After all, this is MY hobby (so far) so when he's ready to learn about it and help take care of the tanks he can design his own.


You really need a source of ammonia other than that which is in the tap water. Otherwise you'll have to be doing enormous water changes, which will in turn set back your cycle.

I don't think I understand what you're saying here.:confused: I have another question. When I set up the 10g I was able to cycle the tank in 3 days by just switching the filter media from the 5g tank. Will that method not work with a bigger tank?

[RobbieG]

The tank looks great!

The seed bacteria need ammonia to eat. If you plan on a fishless cycle you would want the ammonia level to get higher than that of your tap water to help the seed bacteria grow into larger colonies.

[tropfish]

I really like the tank! :19:

[Lady Hobbs]

Beautiful tank but I agree you have to have ammonia from some source. Either get some feeder goldfish, danios, pure ammonia or shrimp shells in a bag.

Have your checked with Ace Hardware or the Dollar Stores in your area for pure ammonia. Someone has got to have it.

[SkarloeysMom]

Last time I cycled I looked everywhere for ammonia to no avail. The Ace will probably have it but by the time I drive there to to get it the tank may be cycled! LOL!

I just checked and I have .25 ammonia, .25 nitrites and no nitrates.
Oh, and yesterday the Ph was 8.8 and today its 7.0! I can't believe how fast it neutralized but that's another subject.

It appears to me that this tank is cycling already, just like the 10g did. I have zebra danios I can put in there once I see the nitrates coming up. Maybe that's all its gonna take to cycle this bad boy. I will be understocked for a while even if I move all the fish in at once. I wonder if their small bio load will be ok with a quick cycle like this. Once I move them it I will move the AC filter that has PLENTY of bacteria in it.

[RobbieG]

A small bioload would be perfect - you are basically cycling to be able to handle a small amount of ammonia.

[hungryhound]

Last time I cycled I looked everywhere for ammonia to no avail. The Ace will probably have it but by the time I drive there to to get it the tank may be cycled! LOL!

I just checked and I have .25 ammonia, .25 nitrites and no nitrates.
Oh, and yesterday the Ph was 8.8 and today its 7.0! I can't believe how fast it neutralized but that's another subject.

It appears to me that this tank is cycling already, just like the 10g did. I have zebra danios I can put in there once I see the nitrates coming up. Maybe that's all its gonna take to cycle this bad boy. I will be understocked for a while even if I move all the fish in at once. I wonder if their small bio load will be ok with a quick cycle like this. Once I move them it I will move the AC filter that has PLENTY of bacteria in it.

My guess is that your mulm is decomposing into into ammonia helping to cycle your tank. As long as you go slow and only add one or two fish at a time, I would suspect that you would be fine.

But if you add a bunch of fish at once it will probably cause your parameters to crash. Good luck and once again the tank looks wonderful.

[SkarloeysMom]

your mulm is decomposing into into ammonia helping to cycle your tank. As long as you go slow and only add one or two fish at a time, I would suspect that you would be fine.

Sorry, can you explain what mulm is? I will go slowly...probably just the 4 zebras at first.


Good luck and once again the tank looks wonderful.

THANKS!! I'm so happy to hear all the postive feedback on this tank. I'm having so much fun with this one.

[hungryhound]

Sorry, can you explain what mulm is? I will go slowly...probably just the 4 zebras at first.



THANKS!! I'm so happy to hear all the postive feedback on this tank. I'm having so much fun with this one.

mulm is the general term for all of the rotting food particles and animal waste that accumulates in the gravel.

My guess is that when you seeded your gravel you picked up some of this from your old tank and transfered it to your new tank and this is what is providing the ammonia for your bacteria at present. You will need to be careful, because when this waste is used up the ammonia will slowly start to starve. So having a few small fish in to keep the cycle going will be needed.

[Lady Hobbs]

mulm is stuff already containing bacteria.......filter media, used gravel,

[hungryhound]

mulm is stuff already containing bacteria.......filter media, used gravel,

My definition seems to be a little different than yours.

Are you sure that it is the filter media and gravel. I have never heard my gravel or filter refered to as mulm, but I have heard that you need to vacume the mulm out of your gravel and clean the mulm out of your filter.

I just want to make sure that I have the correct definition so that I do not steer anyone wrong.

[SkarloeysMom]

My guess is that your mulm is decomposing into into ammonia helping to cycle your tank. As long as you go slow and only add one or two fish at a time, I would suspect that you would be fine.

But if you add a bunch of fish at once it will probably cause your parameters to crash. Good luck and once again the tank looks wonderful.

Mmmm, mulm! Sounds delicious! LOL! Well we're on day 2 of having .25 ammonia and .25 nitrites in the 20g. The new tank fog is gone today. I added a few cups of 10g gravel yesterday to add a little mulm (thanks for the new word Hungry!) to the cycle and a bit of different color to my substrate. We'll see where it goes from here.

[Lady Hobbs]

My definition seems to be a little different than yours.

Are you sure that it is the filter media and gravel. I have never heard my gravel or filter refered to as mulm, but I have heard that you need to vacume the mulm out of your gravel and clean the mulm out of your filter.

I just want to make sure that I have the correct definition so that I do not steer anyone wrong.

How do I know? I just post so you won't forget me. :c3:

Honestly, that's what I thought mulm was. Starter Fuel.

Just read your explanation of it and now I seeeeeeee. I've cycled my last two tanks by vacuuming the bottom of another existing tank and adding the nasties to the new tank. Is this what you mean?

[hungryhound]

yeah that is what I mean. all of the websites I have been to define mulm as the decomposing organic matter in your tank. While not necessarily the bacteria it may contain some and decomposed into food for them, thus helping to start a cycle.

[zackish]

You really need to put that pic in the TOTM contest because it looks beautiful.

Also, my guess is that your PH will drop down to about 8.0. What kind of fish are you going to be getting?
Obviously cichlids would be the primary choice.

[SkarloeysMom]

You really need to put that pic in the TOTM contest because it looks beautiful.

Also, my guess is that your PH will drop down to about 8.0. What kind of fish are you going to be getting?
Obviously cichlids would be the primary choice.

WOW! Thanks Zackish! I'm really happy with it too.

Your guess about the Ph is right and then some. The Ph dropped within 24 hours from 8.8 to 7! I was totally shocked. I don't know if it was the driftwood effect or just some natural effect of the water aging. This gives me hope though that someday I could actually try to have some live plants.

As far as the stocking goes, I'm going to move the community I already have into the new tank and just work on my skills for a while longer before I try anything like cichlids. I have so much still to learn before I move up from the beginner fish.

[modster]

Just run your filter in the 10g for a week or two.

[SkarloeysMom]

I am planning to switch filters soon. I'm betting that the AC that has been on the 10g for a month will finish up the cycle on the 20g very quickly once I switch them. But since I'm not really sure, I would hate to leave the 10g with a practically brand new filter and risk a mini-cycle. I'm gonna sit tight for a while longer and see what the reading say. This morning they were at the same point as they were last night.

[gm72]

If you have the sponge and some other media in the filter, consider just switching the sponge out. I did that when I added the other 40 long. I had 2 existing AC70s with prefilters and 2 brand new AC70s with prefilters. On one new AC I just put in an old sponge and in the other I put in the old media. Worked great.

[SkarloeysMom]

Well, it looks like my new tank is cycled. Here's the latest rev of my design.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa150/Skarloeysmom/finished731.jpg
When I checked the levels this morning I had 0,0 and barely had some Nitrates. Yesterday the ammonia and nitrites disappeared about 12 hours after I switched the filters so that my month old AC filter is now on the 20g. That's when I decided I'd better get some fish in there to start adding some ammonia so the filter bacteria wouldn't starve. The appearance of a Nitrate reading this morning makes me think we are headed in the right direction.

Right now I have 4 zebras, 3 otos, 1 guppy and 1 white cloud in the tank. The otos seem happier than I've ever seen them. They've been munching away at the Bearded Stick Café off and on since they found it.
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa150/Skarloeysmom/otos_eating.jpg
I'm so happy with my the way this tank is coming together. I just hope that my cycle is stable. I'm going to wait a while and make sure things are good and then I'll add a shoal of 5 Harlequin Rasborsa to the mix.

[MeganL3985]

Beautiful setup! I love it! I think we have some of the same plants and gravel haha

[SkarloeysMom]

Beautiful setup! I love it! I think we have some of the same plants and gravel haha

Thanks!

We probably have the same Walmart stuff, eh? I think they only have one kind of natural color gravel. HA!

[Mark Lathrop]

Beautifully executed. Love the setup. It photographs so well too! Congrats!

[RobbieG]

That looks really good - love the fuzzy log!