Dempsey fry and Kuhli Loaches

[wrightflyer2]

I've got a new batch of Dempsey/Convict fry - they were just moved to a pit by mom today!

I have 2(or 3) Kuhli Loaches that are pretty good at hiding in the tank by day and hunting by night. The fry were on a ledge off the sand bed, but are now in reach of the Kuhlis....should I be concerned about the fry being eaten?

I've read a number of posts on the subject - with there being a split of opinion! I separated the most aggressive cichlids to a new (well cycled) tank...but I was debating on pulling out the loaches?

:ssmile:

[toddnbecka]

The fry are dempsey/convict hybrids? Personally I'd hope the kuhli's do pick them off. Hybrids like that usually inherit the worst of both parents, so you end up with ugly (if not actually deformed) hyperaggressive fish that nobody wants. If you want to breed fish and raise fry at least work with good stock.

[wrightflyer2]

There was no intent to breed...and I'm not 100% sure they are hybrids, but the lfs (petco in this case) suggested they might be...I'd never seen a dempsey go as jet black as they did in the store....

When I got them - I was oblivious to the importance of good stock!

As for the fry, I have pre-arranged homes for them with the forewarning they may be hybrids...(as long as they are healthy)

[wrightflyer2]

Had Zero fatalities due to the Loaches...(4 in the tank and if they did eat any fry it wasn't at all noticeable)

As for the hyper-aggressive comment....

Well, let me say this...cichlids aren't aggressive - they are territorial. If you find cichlids being too aggressive...

1. You could have an overstocked tank.
2. The water quality isn't right...
3. Or maybe the tank doesn't have the appropriate aqua-scape for cichlids...
4. Something as simple the tank setup being to low - as in height for people walking by can make a difference...
5. etc.

I have convicts/dempseys/texas/african/red terror/etc...(though not a jaguar) - some by nature can be agressive, but given the appropriate setup...there can be harmony.

[Lab_Rat]

Did your JD and convict pair up? Or are you saying the JD is a hybrid to start with? Do you have pics?

[Spidyman]

Had Zero fatalities due to the Loaches...(4 in the tank and if they did eat any fry it wasn't at all noticeable)

As for the hyper-aggressive comment....

Well, let me say this...cichlids aren't aggressive - they are territorial. If you find cichlids being too aggressive...

1. You could have an overstocked tank.
2. The water quality isn't right...
3. Or maybe the tank doesn't have the appropriate aqua-scape for cichlids...
4. Something as simple the tank setup being to low - as in height for people walking by can make a difference...
5. etc.

I have convicts/dempseys/texas/african/red terror/etc...(though not a jaguar) - some by nature can be agressive, but given the appropriate setup...there can be harmony.
I would watch who you talk down too. There are many members on this forum that know way more the you. Also mean no disrespect with that. I personally know toddnbecka have breed thousands of cichlids and other fish. He was trying to say that odds are they will not only be ugly and unwanted but odds are aggressive too. And aggression does ussually mean territorial or preditory. I mean no disrespect but I found the way you said things could offend someone
As for the fish I have seen many jds that are very black it all depends on genetics. I personally have one from petsmart that was very black to began with but has since lighted up a bit but is still very black when angry or hunting fish. I did some research on jack dempseys as I thought mine was not a true jd but I found out she is. I would suggest the same for you just to play it safe or you can post a pic and people would love to help properly identify it for you.

[Jacko]

Woah... personally I think the OP is in the right, its 100% his choice as to what he breeds (intentionally or otherwise). Convict hybrids are probably one of the most common I see, and if his original pair was half con, half jack so be it, or if he's crossing a jd and a con its totally up to him, there are far worse crosses out there. For all we know it could be a couple of darker jacks too, he says his local petco seems to think they're hybrids.

To tell the op that he should hope the fry get eaten because they could be ugly and mean seems like down talking to me more than his post... personally if they are hybrids I'd cull them myself. But not everybody has that opinion and on an open board like this that should be respected... as long as he tells whoever takes them what they are then where's the harm?

To wrightflyer, best of luck with the babies! :22:

[fishguy66]

Had Zero fatalities due to the Loaches...(4 in the tank and if they did eat any fry it wasn't at all noticeable)

As for the hyper-aggressive comment....

Well, let me say this...cichlids aren't aggressive - they are territorial. If you find cichlids being too aggressive...

1. You could have an overstocked tank.
2. The water quality isn't right...
3. Or maybe the tank doesn't have the appropriate aqua-scape for cichlids...
4. Something as simple the tank setup being to low - as in height for people walking by can make a difference...
5. etc.

I have convicts/dempseys/texas/african/red terror/etc...(though not a jaguar) - some by nature can be agressive, but given the appropriate setup...there can be harmony.


I was just reading this post, & have to disagree w/ your comment that cichlids are not aggressive. That is a blanket statement for an incredibly diverse species. Some are peaceful(discus,angels, eartheaters), some are territorial(mbunas, convicts,etc), some are just gluttons & will eat anything they can fit in their mouths(oscars, peacock bass) & some will go out of their way to maim or kill anything in their path just because they can(umbriferum, red devils,jaguars,black belts,etc.). I think before you go giving advice, you should know what each species is capable of.

[Sandz]

That is a blanket statement but as the OP also pointed out "GIVEN THE APPROPRIATE SETUP". Oscars do well with other fish in a big enough tank with the same aggression level... Mbuna are overstocked to prevent aggression... all the same advice we give here day in and day out. Even discus are needed to be in a shoal of 6 because of their picking at each other.

He isnt suggesting putting a Blue Ram with a Red Devil is an appropriate setup...

As to culling... Hybrids are a nature of the business. If he wants to raise them and sell them responsibly, that is on him. However I personally would feel it inappropriate to further those cross genetics.

[Sandz]

OP, im glad the fish are making it. IME I have only had issues with inverts and loaches... my fry have never been touched. However I have only had the experience of this 1 time with some appisto fry when i was short on a tank.

[wrightflyer2]

I was a little bothered by the lack of an answer from the initial response - I was pretty excited and it was the first time my wife got involved in my little hobby!

After re-reading my response...well, it was very poorly worded. It did read with a
very condescending tone - to someone who likely has more experience in the hobby. For that,I apologize!

As for the fry...
After talking to some local hobbyists (and showing pics) ...well they all said - "they just look like colorful dempseys..."

[Spidyman]

That is good just be sure that if you do get rid of them to some people be sure to tell them they are not true jds. Can we some pics I em interested to see what they look like.

[wrightflyer2]

Forgive the tank, it was in the middle of tank cleaning and water change...and I use sand as a substrate, so they decided to pose while I was moving the sand around.....

but...Jack and A.J. the fry parents...Jack was Jill until he fully developed his spangles and such!

Does the female look at all like she might be a mix Convict breed?

[Spidyman]

The male looks good but the female does look a bit different but it is still hard to tell but it could be.

[fishguy66]

Forgive the tank, it was in the middle of tank cleaning and water change...and I use sand as a substrate, so they decided to pose while I was moving the sand around.....

but...Jack and A.J. the fry parents...Jack was Jill until he fully developed his spangles and such!

Does the female look at all like she might be a mix Convict breed?

Nope, that's a female Dempsey. Males get all the color in the body( & it's much more intense) & females get a lot of color in the cheek region & not so much in the body( & males get bigger). Looks like all the female JD's I've kept over the years. I have a pair right now that is almost identical to yours.