Fishless cycling question

[KewlBeanz]

Hello,

I'm a newbie at the forum and freshwater aquarium in general. I started doing a fishless cycling about a week ago. I test ammonia levels daily using API master test kit which I think is in the right range. I have a hard time looking at the colors on the sheet and comparing the tube but I'm certain it's between 4.0 ppm and 8.0 ppm (hoping it's around 5.0 anyway).

I wish I tested all; ph, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. I did that on the first day but only did the ammonia test daily. Today, I decided to test for all again and got the following results (as far as I can match them with the color chart).

ph - 6
ammonia - between 4.0ppm and 8.0ppm
nitrite - 1.0ppm
nitrate - 5.0ppm

Anyway, (thanks for your patience thus far) my question is - why is the ammonia still at a "high" level when there seem to be some nitrate building? I thought that ammonia should be "zero" before nitrates would go up? Am I in the right track? If not, what can I do to correct this?

Thank you very much for your help!

KewlBeanz

[Cermet]

First off, don't know what your input water looks like - does it have ammonia? nitrites? Also, since this is fishless, you are adding ammonia - your level is high - Lady Hobbs suggests 2 ppm (I used 0.2 ppm and cycled in under five weeks but mine had fish.)

Second, if the nitrite is solely due to bacteria, then the ammonia has to be dropping but are you adding faster?

Finally, until you grow enough ammonia AND nitrite eating/processing bacteria, the tank isn't fully cycled.

Keep measuring and only add enough ammonia once a day to hold 2 ppm. That will clarifry the situation. :hmm3grin2orange:

[KewlBeanz]

For input(?) I used tap water to fill the tank and amquel to remove chlorine and chloramine. I've only added pure ammonia so far to get to a level of about 5.0ppm (hopefully - the color is between 4.0 and 8.0). I haven't added any ammonia (more) yet since it doesn't seem to be going down. I thought the cycle would be ammonia goes down then nitrite goes up (which I had planned on adding more ammonia as you said) and then eventually both ammonia and nitrite goes down as nitrate goes up.

So at this point, should I "reduce" the ammonia? If so how do I do that - replace the water or use an ammonia remover/blocker?

Thanks!

[Lady Hobbs]

Read my links please.

And don't put 8ppm ammonia in the tank or you'll have a burning out of your cycle. That's way too much. 5 is too much is you have a small tank.

With 8ppm you'll be able to stock a whale. LOL

[KewlBeanz]

"If you have a larger tank and want to stock several fish at once, such as mbuna, bring the ammonia (pure ammonia with no soaps or scents) level to around 5. If you are cycling a small tank, ammonia levels to 2 should be fine since you are not stocking as many fish."

(blush) guess I didnt read it carefully...missed the part about smaller tanks...

"Ammonia levels too high can actually inhibit growth of nitrites and the cycle can appear to "stall out" in the nitrite stage if levels of ammonia are not reduced."

What can I do to reduce it at this point?

[Lady Hobbs]

Change out half the water and refill making sure you use dechlorinator each time. You only need to grow enough bacteria to support the fish you'll have in your tank.

Too, if you have a small tank you also have a small filter. Not much room for tons of bacteria to grow in a small filter.

[rpmdj1]

After you add your ammonia how long should you wait before retesting?
thanks
Russ

[rpmdj1]

After you add your ammonia how long should you wait before retesting?
thanks
Russ

never mind I found it, But incase anyones interested heres what I found

gph of filter divided by 1\2 tank volume

[KewlBeanz]

so I did the 50% water change and my levels now are 1.0 - 2.0 ammonia, 0 nitrite and 0 nitrate...hopefully im on the right track now...

[KewlBeanz]

just an update for anyone interested...been doing the fishless cycle for about 6 weeks and it seems that it stalled...ammonia not going down zero nitrites and zero nitrates...was pretty bummed and decided to give up...did a 50% pwc and treated with Amquel to bring ammonia to zero or atleast to "yellow" went to the store and bought 6 danios...i've been tracking daily and ammonia levels remained 0 while my nitrates slowly went up (10 ppm currently) and nitrite remained 0 im psyched and cant wait to add more fish...next one will be 2-3 albino corys then maybe 4 platys or mollies (havent decided yet) shoot maybe I'll get both red wags and dalmatian might be cool...

[bignellm]

just an update for anyone interested...been doing the fishless cycle for about 6 weeks and it seems that it stalled...ammonia not going down zero nitrites and zero nitrates...was pretty bummed and decided to give up...did a 50% pwc and treated with Amquel to bring ammonia to zero or atleast to "yellow" went to the store and bought 6 danios...i've been tracking daily and ammonia levels remained 0 while my nitrates slowly went up (10 ppm currently) and nitrite remained 0 im psyched and cant wait to add more fish...next one will be 2-3 albino corys then maybe 4 platys or mollies (havent decided yet) shoot maybe I'll get both red wags and dalmatian might be cool...

Platy is pretty tough. Is the tank planted? If so, it will help eat up the Nitrate your getting. Plus the plants give the fish somewhere to hide and feel secure, when they get stressed.

[KewlBeanz]

no Id like to though any suggestions...i saw some moss balls that looked pretty cool and thought maybe to start with those

[ldoerr]

I got some Hornwart (think that is what it is called) today from Petsmart. I heard that it grows fast and is fairly easy. We will see. At Petsmart it is $1.87 a bunch. Normally over $2. Platys are very hardy. I would not get bottom feeders like Corrys until the tank has been running for a few months. (Needs to have been cycled for that amount of time.)

[KewlBeanz]

thanks! I think I need to add plants sooner or later...(sorry another follow up question)

so my ammonia and nitrite levels remain at 0 but my nitrates are building up quickly....yesterday my nitrates were at 20 (going with higher number since I couldn't tell the difference between 10/20 in the color chart) so I did a 20% PWC...today, I tested and it's on the 40/80 range so I just did a 50% water change...I'm about to test it again in an hour to see if that lowered it?

Now I guess I'd like to hear feedback whether this is normal? I'm using Amquel to treat the tap water (which contains chlorine and chloramine based on water company website)...I did do a test of my tap water after adding Amquel and the nitrates is at 0 so I dont think there's a "false positive"

I guess I'm really asking whether nitrates could build up that fast...I was expecting to do a weekly water change but it looks like I need to test daily and do a PWC as needed?

thanks again in advance for any input...

[Lady Hobbs]

Nitrates of 20 are fine. Could be you need to cut back on food just a bit.

PS....moving this to the cycling thread.

[KewlBeanz]

I cleaned my filter...the sponge had a lot of crap...leftover food maybe?

todays test I had ph 7, zero ammonia, nitrites at .5 and nitrates at 20...

[Lady Hobbs]

You cleaned your filter? Did you rinse it out on old tank water?
You do know that's where the bacteria is that keeps your tank cycled? Just squeezing out in old tank water does the trick.


Not sure what happened but it should never take 6 weeks to cycle a tank with ammonia. Perhaps 2 weeks to 2 1/2........never 6.

[KewlBeanz]

yeah...I gave in one good squeeze in the bucket of old tank water...tested the water later in the day and the parameters is what I posted...first time I got a nitrites detection (at least since the cycle started)

I hope I dont have to cycle it again but 2-3 weeks would be bearable to do a fishless cycle...I dont know though at this point I kind of swore to never do it again but I guess never say "never"

[Fyrehawk]

Hi Beanz,

I just reread the entire thread beginning to end. Looks to me like younger in good shape. The cycle is likely done. With fish in the tank and ammonia at zero you are in good shape. Avoid killing all the beneficial bacteria (BB) by using soap or any source of chlorine and you should be ok. The bacteria tha feeds on the nitrites should catch up as long as you don't stock too quickly.

FYI- I am about 5 days into a fishless cycle and had much the same experience as you with the ammonia levels. I did a 50% wc and got the level into the range of 2.0 where I can tell the difference when the ammonia level moves on the color chart. This will be much easier to manage. I think my water had ammonia to start with and I had too much... Should have tested before adding. Live and learn.

Good luck with your tank.

[KewlBeanz]

thanks fyre...I met an experienced hobbyist in my neighborhood...based on his suggestion, I now have two hob filters in my tank (I had an old one that came with the used tank I bought) and will alternate cleaning each one as to not "mess" with the cycle...