Advice please

[dailygrind73]

Hi all,

I am fish-sitting for 3 Discus tanks. 20, 30 and 55 gallon. Recently the 55 gallon and 30 gallon have elevated ammonia at 0.25-0.50. I did 20% water changes on both tanks end of last week. This week ammonia in 30 gallon tank went down to 0.25, but 55 gallon stayed at 0.50. I did a smaller water change this week on the 55 out of desperation. I don't want to do too many water changes and stress the fish though. There are about 8 or so Discus in the 55 gallon and 4 or 5 in the 30 gallon. The person I'm sitting for also has gravel and some plants in both tanks. I am not feeding them as much. They last week they ate Friday, but I didn't have anyone feed them over the weekend. I fed them a little bit Monday and today. Hopefully I haven't done any damage today, because I used ammo-lock in the 2 tanks. The owner had ammo-lock in there (btw the chips/rocks looked kinda nasty). I was desperate to try and reduce the ammo, but afraid to do yet another water change. Any advice, suggestion or projected outcome would be helpful.
BTW last week during the water change for the 55 and 30 gallons I also added some salt to the water because there was a discus in each tank with eye cloud. This week the eye cloud on both fish has resolved.. no others have it. Incidently the 20 gallon tank is perfect. The nitrites/nitrates are normal. Last week nitrite in the 55 gallon was 2.0, but now it's at 0.
Also here's other stats:
55 gallon- Ammonia 0.50, Ph 6.0-
30 gallon- Ammonia 0.25, ph 60
20 gallon- Ammonia 0, ph 6.4
Hope this helps and makes sense
Thanks in advance for any help!

[Brhino]

did the owner give you any instructions? I'm not a discus keeper but I understand they require very pure water... I believe a lot of people that have them do multiple water changes per week, among other things.

[dailygrind73]

Yeah, I hear ya. I've been doing all this research, but getting some conflicting info. The owner didn't give too much instruction. Basically said to test the water and if the ammonia is high I might have to do a water change. I was showed what to feed them and about how much for each, however I wonder if the owner was not overfeeding them because he said he was doing it 3 times daily. I have only been feeding once daily, also in light of the high ammonia (thought maybe due to overfeeding). I will test the waters again and I guess do another water change?? Thanks for your help.

[cat_fish_lady]

I have two discus in my 60 gallon tank and I would think feeding them 3 times a day is wayyyy too much... I feed them very little once a day or every other day even. So I'd say it's likely that the ammonia was elevated to begin with.

But you're doing all you can to get that level down, so given that the owner left you with no instructions, I'd say you're a pretty great fish-sitter to be so involved. How long are you watching them for?

[dailygrind73]

Thanks both so much for the help. The owner will probably be away for at least another 3 weeks. I think I'll stick with the once daily/every other day feedings that I have been doing. I will continue to monitor the ammo and hopefully that (or if needed a water change later on) will keep them alive until the owner returns..finger crossed!

[Cermet]

First, as others have pointed out - don't over feed.

Second, your water changes were way, way too tiny. Next time a min of 50% for ammonia of 0.5 ppm (which will get it down to 0.25 ppm right away.)

Third, becareful with pH when changing the water - discus do not, like most fish, like the pH to change. You seem to know what you are doing with WC, so I don't think this will be an issue - just a FYI.

Good luck! :11:

[SpyderSpy6]

I don't think that you necessarily need to do a 50% water change to cure ammonia. Depending on what type of filtration the owner is using, it may not have enough media/bacteria to consume the amount of ammonia in the aquarium. I have a couple questions with possible reasons why you might be experiencing the issue...

1. What type of dechlorinator are you using?

2. What type of filter/ filter media is being used?

3. What foods are you feeding?

4. What type of test kit are you testing the water with?

Depending on those answers, you may not have an issue at all. Reason I say that is if you are using seachem prime with an API test kit you are going to get mixed readings. Also, most test kits do not distinguish between ammonia, ammonium, and total/free ammonia. Most people will typically use tap water which usually has some ammonia to begin with... conditioning the water will chelate the harmful ammonia and excess build up is eventually broken down in to ammonium which is a safe form. This is tricky because an API (and most basic kits) will show safe ammonium as harmful ammonia. 50% water changes then effectively will remove the safe ammonium and replace it with unsafe ammonia. This may be the cause of the discus showing a white cloudy eye for such a short period. Unsafe amounts of ammonia can "burn" the fish which might be what you saw as being a whitish cloud on the eye.

Secondly... the filtration form is key. If they are using a hang-on the back filter with slide in pads... they may be exhausted an unable to remove the harmful elements from the water. Also if they have a ceramic media they are only housing aerobic bacteria and not anerobic bacteria. Anerobic bacteria is what breaks down the ammonia (nitrites and nitrates as well). My assumption based on the size of tanks you quoted is that they are using some type of hang on the back filter. If this is the case I would replace the cartridges and add a beneficial bacteria. My preference is seachem stability. This will provide the aquarium with the correct bacteria to consume the ammonia. Going forward I would recommend telling your friend to use a more staged type of filtration like an aqua clear. (If they aren't using an aqua clear already) Aqua clear filters allow you to change the media type without having to use the manufacturer's brand. Also they are the only hang on filter I will use due to the quailty of the filter. With this type of filter you can use a much better media similar to matrix that will house both types of bacteria needed. This will effectively filter the water and resolve the ammonia problem.

If you or your friend are unwilling to make the changes I'm afraid to say that you will keep running in to this issue and jeopardize the longevity of the discus. I don't mean to come off harsh, it's just I've kept discus for years and know a great amount about them. Also alot of mis-information is put out there by non-qualified "experts" and really its no more than some idiot sitting in his undies at a desk thinking he knows it all. (Not saying everyone here :) )

Discus get a bad wrap for being hard to keep... it's typically just an incorrect setup and filter media that is the problem. Most of those "incorrect setups and filter medias" will keep your typical tropical fish alive... so when you add a discus to that set up and it dies people say, "discus are way to hard to keep... blah blah blah" when really it's the setup and an uneducated hobbyist.

Don't mean to throw so much at you, I just can see an issue developing from the small blurb you posted. Please feel free to PM me for any advice you need. I love to help and I think with a few small tweaks to the system it could really go a long ways for you and your friends aquarium.

Hope all that helps!!