Heeeelp!! New Tank Refuses to Cycle!

[Migforce]

I need some serious help on this. I set up a tank 5 weeks ago. It is a 30 gallon tank with a "Wisper" 30 filter in it that came with a tank kit. Currently I have 8 Zebra Danios that are my catalyst for the cycle. My problem is this...Its been 5 weeks total, my ammonia has spiked about three weeks ago and is not going away. Nitrites are still reading big fat 0 on all tests. I have been changing water at the rate of 10 gal. per week to keep ammonia down...What am I doing wrong? Or could it be that the filter just sucks and is not keeping up? I need advice bad, I have no prior fish experience. Thanks in advance.

PS. I dechlorinate the water prior to adding it to the tank.

[Bill M.]

Is your tank the one from walmart... the 29 gallon??? Thats what I have and I love it....

About your cycle, it is very wierd the cycle hasnt started.... have you been cleaning the filter and the gravel? If so, thats your problem. While 90 percent live in the filter, 10 live in the gravel, and this nitrifying bactera is essential to the process. Just syphon water out... dont clean the gravel or filter for at least a few months......

[amanda_]

You don't have enough biological bacteria right now. If you want to speed up the process, go to an aquarium store and ask for a clipping from their filter floss. I did that and my tank cycled in about 2 weeks. If they wont do that for you, you might be able to buy some well established substrate that you can just place in a filter bag and leave it in your aquarium for a while if there isn't enough room for it in the filter.

[Migforce]

I have not cleaned out either the filter nor the substrate. I just siphon the water out. I haven't asked the store for the clip, but I did buy bacteria supplement that I added, but that does not seem to be working.

[amanda_]

Bacteria supplements are not effective as they are often left on the shelf too long so the bacteria dies off. The best thing to do is ask a store or even friend with a well established aquarium for a small clipping.

[Lady Hobbs]

I fail to understand what could be going on if you've done no cleaning at all. But check your water right from the tap and see if your ammonia is coming from the tap or your fish.

[amanda_]

When you finally reach high nitrite levels, add a little bit of aquarium salt, about 2 tablespoons should be sufficient for your size of aquarium. It helps lower the toxicity of nitrite.

[Migforce]

Bacteria supplements are not effective as they are often left on the shelf too long so the bacteria dies off. The best thing to do is ask a store or even friend with a well established aquarium for a small clipping.
That sucks. I paid good money for it :-( . Unfortunately I don't have any friends with aquariums, so it looks like a trip to PETCO for me tonight. But wouldn't 5 weeks be enough to establish a bacterial colony even without a cliping? What worries me is that after all this time I have no Nitrites in the water that means there is no bacterial activity whatsoever. So now I'm thinking that something is limiting its growth. Since there is plenty of ammonia in the water that points to limited oxygen supply as a cause, that's why I am thinking the filter could be underpowered. Am I way off here? How does Wisper rate as far as filters go?

[Migforce]

I fail to understand what could be going on if you've done no cleaning at all. But check your water right from the tap and see if your ammonia is coming from the tap or your fish.
I checked for amonia, nitrites and nitrates to establish baseline readings before adding the fish. According to the tests, there are no significant levels present in my tap water.

[SkarloeysMom]

The Whisper 30 turns over the water at 150gph and is made for the 30g tank. Can't see how that would not be working for ya. I'm with Hobbs...maybe you should check your tap water for ammonia.

[Scalare]

What test is it? Paper or drops?

And, my opinion is that 5 weeks is more than enough to set up a bacterial colony.

[Migforce]

What test is it? Paper or drops?

And, my opinion is that 5 weeks is more than enough to set up a bacterial colony.
I am using drops to test. Also, I just ran a test on my tap water and it showed 0 ppm Ammonia. My tank is testing 0.25 today for ammonia, nitrites are still 0. Nitrates are also 0. Did anybody else have a similar problem to mine?

[RobbieG]

How high do you usually bring the ammonia up to?

Nevermind - just saw the danios!

[modster]

I dont think its uncommon for cycle not to start when there is no "seed" bacteria. Check this out http://www.fishtankforums.com/5-freshwater-aquariums-general-discussion/1746-race-10.html I am dealing with the same problem right now actually. I started fishless cycle a month ago and the ammonia didnt drop a bit. I tried to ask my LFS for some gravel and the staff there thinks i am nut. I just bought a bottle of cycle yesterday and hope it will work.

[gm72]

Wow. A lot going on here. Migforce, if I were you I probably would do a large water change WITHOUT disturbing your gravel and filter. Let's see if that changes the water parameters. Of course, you could go the opposite route as well and stay where you are, do nothing, and see what happens. Either way you won't be hurting anything.

Bacteria supplements, except for biospira, are worthless. Period. There is no way the bacteria can survive without an ammonia source or without refrigeration. Basic biology.

Although amanda is right about the salt aiding with the toxicity of the nitrItes, it will be unnecessary especially with hardy fish such as the zebra dannio. Your current stocking levels given your tank and filtration will not allow the nitrItes to get out of control.

Obvious question--are you sure you are reading the test results properly? If your ammonia is holding steady, something has to be converting it, otherwise it would simply continue to rise, out of control. I'm not SAYING you are reading the results improperly, just asking to make sure, especially since you said you have no prior experience.

[zackish]

You really might want to look into a better filter if it fits in your budget. A small canister filter will provide more than enough biological room for that size tank.
Also, your tank might be cycled and you missed the nitrite spike.
When I was cycling my tank I didn't test for nitrite until about 4 days after I started and it already read like 2.0+. That means after only a couple days it might have already started to spike.
How long after you started your cycle did you start checking for nitrite?

[Migforce]

Wow. A lot going on here. Migforce, if I were you I probably would do a large water change WITHOUT disturbing your gravel and filter. Let's see if that changes the water parameters. Of course, you could go the opposite route as well and stay where you are, do nothing, and see what happens. Either way you won't be hurting anything.

Bacteria supplements, except for biospira, are worthless. Period. There is no way the bacteria can survive without an ammonia source or without refrigeration. Basic biology.

Although amanda is right about the salt aiding with the toxicity of the nitrItes, it will be unnecessary especially with hardy fish such as the zebra dannio. Your current stocking levels given your tank and filtration will not allow the nitrItes to get out of control.

Obvious question--are you sure you are reading the test results properly? If your ammonia is holding steady, something has to be converting it, otherwise it would simply continue to rise, out of control. I'm not SAYING you are reading the results improperly, just asking to make sure, especially since you said you have no prior experience.
The amonia levels are not holding steady, they go up over the course of the week. I do 30% water changes to get ammonia level down. I am sure I read the test properly, I follow the instructions to the letter and my tap water reads 0, so I know I'm doing it right.

Zackish, in the beginning I checked for nitrites once per week. Now, I check my nitrites every day and the readings are consistently 0. What I'm concerned with is that my Nitrate levels are holding at 0 as well while ammonia is going up which tells me that nitrification cycle is not happening.

[Migforce]

I just thought of something else. My tank is about 18-20 inches tall and since it is acrylic it has a permanent top with openings to put in a filter, a thermometer and a larger hole for the lid with a light that I use for feedings and cleanings. Is it possible that I am not getting enough oxygen to the tank?

[Lady Hobbs]

What's the temp of your water? Higher temps and aerating the water also help as bacteria likes both. You can turn your heat to 82 and your danios will be fine with it.

You don't need to do those water changes until your ammonia readings are higher....maybe .50- .75. Some fish can not survive those readings but danio's seem to be able to tolerate it better. Or get some feeder goldfish and toss them in with the danio's for now.

BioSpira is an excellent product but needs to go in at the same time you add your fish. Adding it once you have ammonia does not work and would be a waste of money.

[RobbieG]

What kind of dechlorinator are you using?

[Migforce]

My water temperature is usually between 78 and 80. On hot days (my AC is programed to shut off when nobody is home) it can hit about 81 to 82.

I use TopFin dechlorinator that I piked up at PetSmart when I got the tank. Why do you ask?

[gm72]

Is your filter output disturbing the water at all? That is, do you have some surface agitation to promote gas exchange? Do you find your dannios gasping for air at the top of the tank?

[Bill M.]

That sucks. I paid good money for it :-( . Unfortunately I don't have any friends with aquariums, so it looks like a trip to PETCO for me tonight. But wouldn't 5 weeks be enough to establish a bacterial colony even without a cliping? What worries me is that after all this time I have no Nitrites in the water that means there is no bacterial activity whatsoever. So now I'm thinking that something is limiting its growth. Since there is plenty of ammonia in the water that points to limited oxygen supply as a cause, that's why I am thinking the filter could be underpowered. Am I way off here? How does Wisper rate as far as filters go?


WOAH WOAH WOAH.... Do not get any filter media or substrate form petsmart or petco... all of thier tanks run on a single filter in the back, so if one tank had a disease, all have it. All you would do by doing htis would be adding disease to the tank...

[Migforce]

Is your filter output disturbing the water at all? That is, do you have some surface agitation to promote gas exchange? Do you find your dannios gasping for air at the top of the tank?
My filter is set to "High", I have surface agitation. The fish are swimming throughout the tank and I never noticed them gasping for air.

Bill M... Thanks for the tip, man. I didn't know that. I thought that each tank has their own filter. Its a good thing I got lazy yesterday :-).

[RobbieG]

WOAH WOAH WOAH.... Do not get any filter media or substrate form petsmart or petco... all of thier tanks run on a single filter in the back, so if one tank had a disease, all have it. All you would do by doing htis would be adding disease to the tank...

If you get the material from the same place you bought the fish you will be at the same risk you are at now. If it was going to make the fish sick they would already be sick.

[gm72]

Not necessarily though, think about ich that falls out of the fish but stays alive looking for a new host.

[RobbieG]

Theres just as much chance that the fish have something that hasn't been gotten rid of yet as something came up between now and then that the fish didn't have. Its possible yes - just not any more likely.

I wouldn't put anything from any store in a cycled / established tank - but we're talking about a tank that has nothing in it but fish from the same tank that the material came from - and won't for longer than at least a couple of more weeks.

[tropfish]

personally i wouldn't use the petstore to seed either. It seems to pose a risk with so many fish, and unless you have an amazing lfs, then most likely at least one of the displays has some kind of illness.

[Migforce]

Thanks for the info, guys. My tank is still showing no signs of improvement and I just passed into the 6th week of trying to cycle. I ordered a new over-sized filter its a Marineland Penguin 450 bio-wheel I hope it will do the trick Whisper 30 does not seem to be keeping up because I have film on top of the water everywhere in the tank with the exception of where the water comes out of the filter and I don't see a lot of floating junk being sucked up by it. I figure spending $30 more will not hurt the current situation any.

[Migforce]

Success!!!!:19: I put in the new filter Thursday night, I took water tests yesterday and this morning and both tests showed 0ppm Ammonia, 0 ppm Nitrites and 5.0 ppm Nitrates. I will be adding more fish today, I figured I'll start with something that eats Algae, because my tank can use some scrubbing :c5:

That Marineland Bio-Wheel filter rocks!!!!!

[RobbieG]

Congratulations! Good work sticking with it.