White Cloud Mt Minnows & goldfish?

[ArkD'Julie]

Sometime in the future, I'd like to upgrade my 4 goldfish (3 fantail & a lionhead) to a larger tank, approx 45 to 50 gallon.

I'm not sure whether I want to keep just the 4 goldies or add a few tankmates, possibly in the form of white cloud mountain minnows. I've read recently they'd be ok with goldfish and seems the conditions I have (temp 66 to 75, depending on season/room temp and ph of about 7.5) would be alright with them. Also, would 6 or 7 be an adequate number, or more?

I would like to know what experience any of you have with keeping goldies with white clouds. Or, just in keeping white clouds in general. Are white clouds large enough to do ok with goldfish? (my goldfish now are little guys, about 2 inches head to tip of tail)

If I were to get any white clouds, definitely wouldn't be until I got the larger tank. Would 45 to 50 gal be adequate for a few white clouds and 4 goldfish?

Thanks everyone for your advice!

[Lady Hobbs]

I've read white clouds work fine with goldies. Never had a goldie in my life so can't give you my experience just my reading skills. :)

[Fishguy2727]

They can work well together. The only issue is that like any fish goldfish will eat whatever fits in their mouth and can get large enough to eat white clouds. Usually fancy goldfish are too slow to catch anything though.

[bemgelado]

I've never had goldfish, but I have a school of 9 white cloud minnows, and they're a real hoot. They're really active, and love to play in the bubbles and current in my tank. I would recommend them, but I have no experience with them as tank mates for goldies.

[ArkD'Julie]

Thanks for the replies! I'll keep researching them, they sound ok so far!

[mermaidwannabe]

Larger goldies could eat the minnows. Just be forewarned ...

-- mermaidwannabe

[Lady Hobbs]

Have you seen the long finned mountain minnows yet? They're called meteor minnows? They are soooo darned cute and have little red flags on them. I had a group of them but killed them when I added Excel to their tank and haven't been able to find them again. I hope goldies don't eat them because they sure are cute.

[ArkD'Julie]

Haven't seen the long-finned ones. I'll look them up. But, I wonder if the lfs I'll go to can get them in. I know they have regular white clouds usually.

I was thinking about it.... I was going to wait to get a bigger tank before getting any white clouds. My 4 little goldfish are in a 15 gallon now, they're fine in that for now as far as the bioload... as they're only 1.5 to 2" big. If I wait to get my bigger tank, they'll obviously be bigger... and more of a threat to new (small) white clouds. So, if I get some white clouds now, they can grow with the goldfish, therefore the goldfish will be less of a threat to adult white clouds.

Does this reasoning sound ok?

[TheNight]

I have three 3-inch goldfish with two white clouds. They all get along.

[Tyspot1000]

Hello,
As said from many others, white clouds will do great with Goldies :) And yes, the Long fin is even more beautiful, but hard to come by (So many people like them!)

I would recommend not to get the WCMMs right now. Your tank, as far as bioload wise (Which is pretty packed, goldfish, even at a young age, are big waste producers), wouldn't go that great with adding more fish to the bioload.

If you upgraded now (which I do recommend, the goldfish will get pretty big), you could get the WCMMs later (The adult goldfish really wouldn't be that much of a threat considering how fast WCMMs are)

[firefly1152]

my tank set up is a 10 gallon tank with 1 mountain minnow, 2 bait shop minnows, and 2 goldfish. all these guys grew up together so they dont try to eat each other.
one of the goldfish is big enough to eat the cloud. but it is used to goldfish. i got the cloud for free when i bought my goldfish because walmart didnt kow what it was. there was just a little tiny mystery fish in with a tank full of goldfish 10 times bigger than it.

my advise would be to get the smallest goldfish you can find and let them get used to the cloud minnows. they should get along then.

[Fishguy2727]

Your tank is overstocked.
What is the nitrate concentration?

[firefly1152]

i never got it tested. i'm not a hardcore fish person, it's just a tank i got from my uncle who wanted to get rid of it. and the fish are doing fine. there's 5 fish and they each have their 2 gallons of water.

[firefly1152]

ah never mind. we got the water tested. is that what you mean? everything was normal, considering we live nest to a corn field.

[Fishguy2727]

What is the nitrate concentration.

They need more than 2 gallons each. Stocking has a lot more to do with water changes than actual volume, but there are minimums. If these are fancy goldfish you need twenty gallons for one and an additional ten gallons for every additional goldfish. If these are long-bodied goldfish they need a huge tank (125 gallons or more).

Your not being a 'hardcore' fish person doesn't mean it is okay to neglect fish. If you are not going to take proper care of them you need to give them to someone who will.

[Vampyre500]

I'm new, but I've got experience with goldfish. Fishguy is absolutely right. Both ArkD'Julie and firefly have seriously overstocked tanks. Neither one of you should freak out, but making some changes would be much better for your fish.

ArkD'Julie, if you are still checking back with this thread, you said you were thinking of going with a larger tank. A 55 would be a minimum for keeping all four goldfish. A 75 gallon would be even better. Otherwise, if you want to go with a 40 gallon, I would suggest rehoming at least one of the fish. Two would be better and give you room to play around with adding other species like White Clouds. They won't hurt the goldfish, but the goldfish do find them to be a tasty snack if they can catch them. Or you could cycle the new tank and just move two into the larger tank and keep the 15 gallon set up for the other two. That would at least give them some relief from the stress.

firefly, in your case, I would get rid of the bait minnows at the very least. I've heard a lot of formulas for stocking tanks from 1 inch of fish per gallon to calculating the surface area for gas exchange. None of these formulas work for goldfish. They are pond fish. They put out a huge amount of ammonia both as the waste you see, and through their gills. They are just not very good fish for a 10 gallon tank. Your fish are not grown up. A long thin goldfish, or comet, gets to be 10 to 12 inches long when they are full grown. A fancy, fantail goldfish get to be the size of softballs. They don't remain small if you keep them in a smaller tank. They remain small because poor water conditions are not allowing them to grow properly. This is not something you can see or smell. There are tests for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate, which will give you an idea of how efficient your filter system is. You can buy the little test kits a WalMart when you get the chance.

[Fizgig]

I keep a school of White Clouds with my Goldies (1 fantail, 1 Ryukin, and 1 Shubunkin) without and issues. The Goldies don't pay much attention to the smaller fish and the WCMM have learned to steer clear of the Goldies at feeding time. My tank temp. is set to 72˙F.