New Tank, Ich and Dying Danios

[DianaHart]

I set up my ten gallon, planted (anubias, hornwort, indian fern, bacopa monnieri, saggitaria), with diy co2, tank on April 13th.

There was a female and three males, and they were breeding every morning, totally active...perfect. I did 25 % pwcevery morning, ammonia never got over .25 ml/l and Nitrite never over .3 ml/l (according to Tetra test kit)
I bought three zebra danios to get the cycle started ( i should have done a fishless cycle, i know now), and they were wonderful until April 27th, when the ich came.

I treated with Rid ich, continued pwc's before treatment. There were no spots after four days, I continued treatment for few more days, then put the carbon back in the filter to remove medication. 3 days ago ( May 4th) all 4 of my danios were either on the bottom, hiding under a rock, or at the top of the tank, very lethargic, at times flashing, swimming erratically, reddened gills, gasping heavily. ph 6.8 , ammonia 0, nitrite less than .3 (lowest the test kit goes), nitrate low but visible at less than 5, temp 23 celsius.

The female died first the night before last, and this morning, one of the males has spasmed his way out of the world.

So now I have two danios...i see that there is a spot on of them (ich has returned, or never went away, probably because the temp was too low) , so more Rid Ich this morning. They are not at the bottom of the tank anymore, but are still acting slightly lethargic at times.

Levels are Ph 7.0
Gh 4
Kh 1
ammonia 0
nitrite - less than .3
nitrate under 5
temp 23 - 24 c

Water conditioner - Hikari Ultimate X
Food - Omega One colour flakes
- frozen bloodworms (Hikari)

I understand that the fish could have irreparable damage from the cycle, and that they have been weakened.
Is there anything I've missed, other than the fishless cycle?

Thanks for any ideas.

[smaug]

If you were doing 25% water changes every morning as you say then you did no damage to the fish at all. Ich can sometimes be killed very quickly,it depends how long it went before you treated it. The spots are not the beginning of ich and by time you notice them the fish could have a huge infestation of them in there gills. What you need to do now is a big gravel vac,50% water change,keep you temps between 82 and 85 deg f,keep the carbon goingg for another 24 hrs then remove it. Get a bottle of quick cure by ap products and start dosing with that,keep dose till a 3 days after last sign of disease. Repeat the first steps I mentioned. In the mean time feed the fish a good dry pellet or flake laced with kent garlic extract,the garlic helps boost there immune system and appetite.

[DianaHart]

I'm using Rid Ich because I read that it is safer to use with plants than Quick Cure. I'm raising the temp slowly, should I bump it right up to the 80s from the mid 70s?

[Lady Hobbs]

With any medication, you must add oxygen as meds deplete the oxygen levels. Could be the ick was in the gills, too, which kills them.

Could also be that they are also stressed from the ammonia in the water and adding meds to it simply made the water too toxic for them to handle.

[DianaHart]

The stress of new tank plus ich is a lot to deal with. Just did the 50 pwc...and the Danios are a little perkier. I'm going to sea if I can find garlic extract flakes. Para Gaurd was also suggested for ich?

[smaug]

LH. She doesn't have any ammo in the water with the additions of meds.
For op.the raise to mid to low eightys can be done over a period of 24 hrs. Quick cure is totally safe for plants,I have used it with plants several times and there are no indications of damage to plants in its instructions. I have never used paraguard.

[DianaHart]

It looks like Rid Ich Plus and Quick Cure have the same ingredients...Formalin and malachite green.

[smaug]

If same ingrediants then it will work as well,unless quick cure is more concentrated. I buy the stuff in a 2 oz dropper bottle. Does the stuff you are using look like very dark oily blue ink?

[DianaHart]

yes, it's quite dark blue. probably not as concentrated as quick cure. Rid Ich calls for 5ml / 10 gallons.

[smaug]

Quick cure is something like 1 or 2 drops per gallon.

[Lady Hobbs]

LH. She doesn't have any ammo in the water with the additions of meds.
For op.the raise to mid to low eightys can be done over a period of 24 hrs. Quick cure is totally safe for plants,I have used it with plants several times and there are no indications of damage to plants in its instructions. I have never used paraguard.

I read where she had been cycling and the ammonia level had not gone over .25. Also read where she still has nitrites registering and the tank is not yet cycled. I thought perhaps between toxic water there plus adding medications could have caused her the problem.

[smaug]

I read where she had been cycling and the ammonia level had not gone over .25. Also read where she still has nitrites registering and the tank is not yet cycled. I thought perhaps between toxic water there plus adding medications could have caused her the problem.
Could be for sure.

[DianaHart]

on the subjest of nitrite readings. I'm using the Tetratest Laborett Kit and the nitrite chart doesn't go below < .3
I wonder if I can get a 0 nitrite reading using this kit.

[smaug]

Should it be a base color with 0 trites? Try checking your tap water and use whatever color that shows as base 0.

[DianaHart]

it's funny...the scale goes from yellow which is <.3 to red 3.3 - 33 . here is an image of the colour chart.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v165/orthikon/DSCN1151.jpg

check the link. it's someone else's photo i grabbed from another forum, but the same kit as mine.

the levels from the tap are < .3 , the lowest on the chart, which is what I'm getting from my tank. I guess that's zero?

[smaug]

I would say you have no trites to speak of.

[DianaHart]

i agree. no nitrite, but there have been some ph fluctuations...i'm in vancouver and the water here is extremely soft. Kh 1. They were swmming happily today, no flashing or bottom sitting.

[smaug]

Don't use any chems to adjust the ph. I understand {but have not tried} that crushed coral in the substrate can help with that.

[DianaHart]

I'm going to wait a while to make any big changes to the KH. The remaining two have been breathing heavily and stressed for the past few days. We''l see how they do.

[DianaHart]

three fish down (out of four)

[Lady Hobbs]

When you see fish are floundering, the best thing you can do immediately is a large water change. Nearly all the fish we buy anymore come from fish farms raised in cement ponds. I would not adjust pH at all and allow them to get used to what you have to give them.