Cleaning my subsrate?

[Tilmo2180]

I read somewhere that shuffling(digging around in) the gravel around while cleaning it releases good bacteria from under the gravel...It went on to say that these "good bacteria" when released will cause a huge spike in your water peramiters. When I first set up my 46 for tropicals I cleaned the gravel (shuffling it around alot) after about 2-3 days my fish started dying, I lost probably 10-15 fish over the next few days. The article stated that is what would happen, the bacteria and stuff when released from under the gravel would spike your levels and in a few days you would have dead fish. It basically said it was a newbie mistake that many people make.

So, according to that you should not clean your gravel (at least not more than the surface of it) or you will kill your fish by making the water unhealthy. A bunch of you guys have said to clean your gravel often, does that mean I can shuffle the gravel and not kill fish and that something else killed my fish(with horrible timing) or are you guys saying to clean the surface only and not dig into the gravel? I use sand does that change anything?

Thanks in advance guys

[Tilmo2180]

Or I could read the post below this one, maybe i shoulda done that first...

[Darkness]

As far as i know...

Most of the good bacteria should be in your filter. Only a small amount is in the gravel, plus its stuck to the gravel pretty well. Mixing the gravel could cause a large spike in nitrates, but thats the point of vacuuming, to get rid of the built up nitrates.

Someone please correct me if im wrong

[dev]

I just posted this in a different thread, but I'm reposting it here since it is relevant to your post.

That is one way to do it, but there are a few alternatives

1. Clean gravel thorougly and often.

Gives a clean tank, but you will damage the bacteria and remove nutritions. Not reccomended for a planted tank. Must be done often and regularly to avoid nitrate spikes

2. Clean only the top inch of your gravel, never go deeper.

Gives a clean looking tank while leaving bacteria and nutritions intact. I reccomend this for most tanks.

If you do a deep clean you can expect a nitrate spike.

3. Never clean your gravel, only suck up dirt that is piling up on top of the gravel.

Some people swear to this method for fully planted tanks, often in combination with low water circulation. I can only assume they don't have very messy fish :) As Lady Hobbs pointed out in salman's thread, this is also how you deal with sand as the substrate.

[Willyleigh]

The reason that your fish died when you first set it up was probably because your tank was not cycled or was cycling and you disturbed it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Tilmo2180]

It was all the way cycled, it had been up for about 5-6 weeks when I cleaned it. I was waiting for the cycle to complete before i cleaned it so i would not mess up the cycle.

[genitor]

Maybe the gravel cleaning disturbed rotting food that was buried which caused an ammonia spike that the bacteria could not adjust to quick enough.

[dev]

Maybe the gravel cleaning disturbed rotting food that was buried which caused an ammonia spike that the bacteria could not adjust to quick enough.

Only a slight correction; usually you will find that the bacteria that handles ammonia will grow fast, avoiding much of an ammonia spike. Unfortunately the bacteria that handles nitrites grows much slower, resulting in a nitrite spike.

If you disturb you substrate more than usual, you should consider doing a large (up to 50%) water change afterwards and keep an eye on the nitrite level.

[Tilmo2180]

Ok, thanks guys. I shall continue to clean the surface and not disturb the sand too often to avoid nitrite spikes and fish genocide.

[genitor]

Unfortunately the bacteria that handles nitrates grows much slower, resulting in a nitrate spike.

If you disturb you substrate more than usual, you should consider doing a large (up to 50%) water change afterwards and keep an eye on the nitrate level.
Don't you mean nitrite?

[dev]

Don't you mean nitrite?

Yes, of course i mean nitrite, thanks for pointing that out. I'll correct the original post.

[genitor]

No problem just don't want people getting confused.