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stevew
07-17-2007, 12:12 AM
I have a small 5g community tank with rasbora hengli and some shrimp. I started with six fish, but one had some sort of spinal deformity, so I culled it. (ice water, and I'm a little concerned that this fish had TB) I added two new fish to keep the others company. One of the two seems happy and healthy, but the other is behaving strangely. It swims differently than the other fish, and I've seen it allow itself to sink to the bottom of the tank while belly-up or sideways. It'll lay on the bottom for a moment, and then swim away. Of course its coloration isn't very good, but it also has a white spot on its side toward the front of its black stripe that looks peculiar to me. It doesn't look like Ich, and the spot isn't round, it's maybe 3 mm long and 1 mm wide. I've included several photos that I hope illustrate the spot, at least. I also think the fish looks a little bloated, fwiw. Oh, and it seems to swim at more of an incline than the other fish, tail down, head up, maybe 20-30 deg.

I'd really appreciate help with this. Should I just cull this fish or does it have an illness it can transfer to the others? I only have the one tank, so I can't quarantine.

gm72
07-17-2007, 01:51 AM
First, just a tip on euthanization of fish. More humane to put the fish in a cup of tank water and place the cup in the freezer. Gradual lowering of the temp is far less stressful. Think of it this way--would you want to die by someone slowly lowering your core body temperature or by someone throwing you in the water at the arctic circle?

This may be swim bladder disease, but not so sure about the white streak.

stevew
07-17-2007, 02:10 AM
I researched euthanasia methods and the ice water technique is regarded by at least some people as appropriately humane. The fish I killed died nearly instantly, and certainly in less than a second. Do you think the freezer method is really better? That's tangential to my original question, though. I assure you that I intend to be humane.

stevew
07-17-2007, 10:49 PM
Well, I killed it. This morning I noticed that the sick fish was missing one of its pelvic fins, probably removed by his "friends." I noticed that its underbelly in the pelvic-anal area was red and swollen, possibly an open sore. I'm guessing that suggests a bacterial infection.

Edit: I forgot to add that the poor fishie was bloated as well - scales sticking out.

rollie
07-17-2007, 10:54 PM
i would say this fish is egg bound. that white spot i am not sure.

but it should not be there.

it may pay to put her to sleep.

i see the lot of fish with spinal deformity.

this may be what wrong with her. but not sure.

gm72
07-17-2007, 10:56 PM
I researched euthanasia methods and the ice water technique is regarded by at least some people as appropriately humane. The fish I killed died nearly instantly, and certainly in less than a second. Do you think the freezer method is really better? That's tangential to my original question, though. I assure you that I intend to be humane.

I am quite sure you were being humane. I did mention swim bladder disease as a possibility, but I guess now we won't know for sure. Sorry you lost your fish.

SkarloeysMom
07-17-2007, 11:16 PM
Well, I killed it. This morning I noticed that the sick fish was missing one of its pelvic fins, probably removed by his "friends." I noticed that its underbelly in the pelvic-anal area was red and swollen, possibly an open sore. I'm guessing that suggests a bacterial infection.

Sorry you had to do that. Its such a hard thing to have to do. I've had to put down a fish a while back and I used the ice water method too. I could not believe how quick the death was. It couldn't have been more than a second. I feel that quick death has got to be the most humane way. Sorry for your loss.

gm72
07-18-2007, 12:33 AM
Putting down any pet is horrible, and only we crazy fish people understand that fish are pets, too!

I guess the shock to their system is more than they can handle for more than a second.

I have also heard of a method of euthanization using oil and alcohol, but I don't remember what that was all about. Seemed a little too complicated to me.

RobbieG
07-18-2007, 12:37 AM
Sorry you had to go through all that - hope things start looking up!

stevew
07-18-2007, 01:15 AM
Sorry you had to go through all that - hope things start looking up!

Me too. I really want the rest of my fish to stay healthy. I'd hate to think that I have TB or some other bacterial/viral illness contaminating my tank. My shrimp are happy and healthy, though. I have a handful of cherries and ghosts and both species are breeding, so they must think the water is ok. In fact, right now I have 4 mm cherry shrimp fry. So cute.

Maybe I'll go out and buy some Tea Tree oil as a prophylactic, assuming it's ok for inverts.

stevew
07-20-2007, 10:38 PM
Aargh. The other new fish has a white spot now too. It's on his tail (not fin) and it's a bump under his skin. Any ideas?

RobbieG
07-21-2007, 04:15 PM
You had mentioned trying tea tree oil - not sure if you did or didn't yet - it s the main ingredient of melafix - I'm going to assume you haven't gotten a chance to try it yet - if you have you can still add the other medication safely

This will be about impossible - but try to look at the lump with a magnifying glass to see if there is any sign of a creepy crawly -

I'd try melafix / pimafix if there are no signs of a parasite.

They are both supposed to be safe for inverts

Is there any chance you could get a small hospital tank setup - if you need to go any further with treatment?

stevew
07-21-2007, 11:10 PM
Yeah, I was going to try tea tree oil as a cheap version of melafix. I'm not positive, but fairly confident that this bump is not a parasite, at least not one that's visible from the surface. I could photograph this fish as well, but there's not much point. The spot looks the same, and the bump is principally visible from above, and when the little guy is swimming directly away from me. Really hard to capture. I'm moving in less than a week, so I really don't know what to do. I can set up a hospital tank in a 5g bucket for sure. Not pretty, but functional. If this guy doesn't get any better, starts to look impaired, etc, I'm just going to euthanize him. I want to do the best that I can for my fish, but in the end... well... they're $2-3 each.

RobbieG
07-21-2007, 11:35 PM
I suggested the melafix / pimafix because that gives you a lot of coverage and most of the stronger medicines that I know of tend to be bad for shrimp.

If you can setup a 5 gallon bucket you may try that combo with a Jungle Parasite tab - if the illness goes the same way that the last one did it will likely be just about all you have time for anyways.

stevew
07-21-2007, 11:36 PM
Hey, thanks for the advice. I really appreciate it. This is my first tank, after all.

RobbieG
07-21-2007, 11:54 PM
No problem - I just wish I could say "its definitely x - put in two drops of y and he'll be better in the morning"