Who has had experience with the American Flag Fish?

[mermaidwannabe]

Google has it pegged as a type of killifish, and the males are quite beautiful.

When I set up my 65-gallon, since these are fish that will tolerate cooler water, I plan on getting one to put in there.

I need to know:

How are they in a community environment that will have three goldfish, four rosy barbs, one Chinese hi-fin and six dojo loaches?

The males are territorial. Could I get by with more than one, if there is heavy aquascaping?

What kind of current do they like? I plan on have two AC110 hobs on this tank, plus an airstone attached to an external revertible pump that will provide battery power in the event of an electrical outage.

Are these guys fin-nippers?

Google provided some information, but not a whole lot.

They do like water harder than what I've got, but other than that, my pH is within their acceptable range, and that of all the other fish I plan on keeping in there, and the temperature would be right for them.

Is it possible they could adjust to a medium-hard water of KH4 and GH 89.5?

Would I be better off getting one male and two or three females?

Your input would be appreciated ...

-- mermaidwannabe

[Cermet]

They are fine in a well planted community tank as groups (six or more) but if a male and female pair off, they will defend a spawning area. My source says they can handle a large range of hardness (soft to hard, no issue) and full range of pH values and can endure slightly brackish water.

Being a community fish, I don't think nipping is an issue (but that is NOT true of Rosy Barbs - they can nip long fins). I'd avoid having more than two (male/female) unless you can keep six or more but that isn't written in stone. Since they pair off, odd numbers aren't required. So have equal number of males and females is fine but I would think that having a few extra males will not hurt if a large group is kept.

They eat vegetable based flake foods, live, and freezed-dry or frozen blood worms. Does nip at plants, algae and possibly algae waffers.

Cool water is a must but can handle up to 82F for peroids (but I'd sure use a lot of air in the water - I think 70's are fine.)

I understand gold fish get really big and I don't see how these fish would then work.
:22:

[mermaidwannabe]

My Rosys must be very well-behaved, as I have a couple of long-finned zebra danios, and they've never touched them.

Not sure how big my goldies will grow in a 65-gallon, with three of them being in there. One is a comet only about two-inches long that seems to never get any bigger, another comet is about 6 inches long, counting the tip of it tail, and the shubunkin about the same. The bunkin does have long, veil-like fins, so I'll have to see how the Rosys act around it.

So, get a school of American Flag Fish, then ... I think the 65 should be able to support them and the rest of the stock, considering the filtration I'll have on the tank.

Stem plants will be artificial, but I can "plant" a lot of them. Floating plants and mossballs will be real.

Now, just to find some, when the time comes.

Thanks, Cermet, for the info.

-- mermaid

[Lady Hobbs]

You might want to read this. Some are saying theirs have not been peaceful at all.

http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/e_Jordanella_floridae.php

I don't know what temp is best for them. They come from the warm water of FL and Mexico so perhaps your tank may not be a proper temp for them.

I would worry about the aggression, I believe.

[Cermet]

I read Lady Hobbs link - looks like the author didn't keep a school and that might have been a mistake - I often read that a school is better in reducing aggression and barbs are famous for being aggressive unless in a school.

As I noted, when they pair off there can be trouble so a large tank and lots of plants should be enough to help control that issue. Maybe some wood, too?

Still, you make your choices and benefit or suffer from the results. I think the fish will do well but long fined fish being kept with them may be asking for trouble but again, don't have direct experience so all guesses are just that - I am using documented reference sources.

Good luck! :hmm3grin2orange:

[Lady Hobbs]

I've never had the fish so have no idea. I was just tossing out there what I had been reading about them. It doesn't help to refer to references sources without giving the reference.

I do agree most likely a heavily planted, large tank and in schools. She said, however, she had a 65 gallon that is not planted and didn't plan to have a whole school. I believe a 65 gallon has a footprint of only 36" altho wider?

Whatever she decides, perhaps just some males might work better so there is less aggression with no females to spawn with? As I said.......never had them.

http://www.examiner.com/fish-and-aquariums-in-cleveland/species-profile-american-flag-fish

[mermaidwannabe]

My Rosy barbs are currently in a school of four. When I transfer them to my 65-gallon, I'll probably get two or three more of those to increase the school size. My male rosy barbs are more inclined to chase one another, and to chase the females, than to bother my other fish.

As for the American Flag Fish, I would certainly like to try a school of those, as well.

How do the flag fish generally behave around bottom-feeders such as dojo loaches? If they leave them alone pretty much, it would be feasible for me to have them in there with them. But I would want nothing in the new tank that would harm my dojos. I plan to get about six of those.

A 65-gallon is a pretty large tank, and I do intend to scape it heavily with artificial plants, and include some live floating plants and live mossballs, as well. There will also be plenty of larger rocks and some faux wood pieces.

I'm assuming the fake plants would serve the intended purpose just as well as live plants. Especially those that are quite bushy and leafy and tend to extend out widely once in the water. They would just need to serve as a screen which can provide shelter and protection, as apparently the flaggers don't depend on them for food.

Goldfish are notorious for devouring live plants, hence my need for fake ones, which are also much easier to care for and deal with.

This is awhile down the road, yet. I really appreciate learning of these other colorful fish that can thrive in cooler water beside just goldies and rosy barbs.

The flaggers are certainly an option to consider when the time comes, assuming I can even find them. Seems that few LFS stock killies of any species.

-- mermaid

[Lab_Rat]

I hope you realize how massively overstocked that 65g is/will be. The goldies should all hit about a foot long if properly cared for. Figure about 3" or more each for the rosys, the Chinese hi-fin gets enormous as well. I would not be thinking about adding even more fish. You really need a pond for the goldies and hi-fin, unless you're planning on a 200g tank or something. 65g is NOT a big tank.

[UncleWillie]

Like others mentioned, I'd ditch the goldfish and chinese sucker idea. But more along the lines of what you were asking...

I've kept flagfish since late 2007 and have had different experiences. My first I got as a pair and were in a 46 gallon community tank with white cloud minnows, zerbrafish, and a rainbow shark. The pair never left each others' sides and never tried to nip or pick at other fish. Somewhat interesting to watch, but they were very docile. Soon later, I quit keeping non-US native fish and decided on getting a group. I had about 5 females and 3 males. This is when they tank got a little more interesting. They certainly developed a pecking order with the largest male always claiming a moss-covered piece of wood. I did see a lot more aggression, but never any attacks. Does that make since? The largest male was not scared of any of the larger fish in teh tank. I have since bred them and raised up the juveniles with no injuries due to attacks...
I just think that experiences will vary. I've had very docile fish, and very aggressive fish, but nothing that would cause death.
Basically, I think you could go for a decent shoal of them if you only have them, rosies and loaches. But just keep an eye out when they mature and lay claim to territories. I fear they may be like some of the sunfishes in the recommendation that you either keep just one or two with plenty of space and refuge, or keep several and crowd them so that territories cannot be established.

[mermaidwannabe]

Thank you very much.

Looks like I need to start seriously looking around in my neck of the woods for someone who has a very large, well-filtered outdoor pond in which to rehome the goldies and the hi-fin. They really are better off outdoors, and my own little garden pond isn't nearly big enough.

Seems I remember a lady I once cared for who had a large pond. She passed away, but if her daughter still owns the property, maybe she can take them.

It was a mistake to get these fish to begin with, but like so many folks just starting out (either for the first time altogether, or after several years of non-fishkeeping), I thought I could keep goldies that way, and I didn't know how big the hi-fin would get until AFTER I got it, then read up on it. Yep, typical!

I really do trust the advice given here, for the most part, by the really experienced folks, and if you think a 65-gallon is still not big enough, then the goldies and hi-fin will be rehomed into an environment where they really can thrive.

Just want what's best for the fish ... That's also why I'm putting two AC110s on the 65 gallon.

-- mermaid

[Lab_Rat]

I think the idea to rehome the goldies and hi fin is good, they definitely are much better off in a large goldfish pond than in a tank. I also agree with Uncle Willie that the rosys, flag fish, and loaches should make a nice tank in the 65g.