View Full Version : Any thoughts before dosing with Maracyn?
Lady Hobbs
03-31-2011, 05:09 PM
Sorry to bring this topic up again but swollen gill linings on my blood parrots has become very frustrating and I have searched time and again on the internet and found nothing.
I have 5 blood parrots and 4 have swollen gill linings as well as the one who died a few months ago. My oldest parrot does not have it. I have treated the tank for gill flukes and other parasites (just in case) but no help. They are in a 55 gallon with a canister filter, an AC110 plus I have added an airstone for them.
They have never had ammonia or nitrites to deal with and I do 50-60% water changes every week without fail. It bothers me so much to see these gills sticking out with those linings all red and swollen. They don't gasp at the surface, eat and act well and growing well but I know this is not normal and I'm afraid I will began to start losing them all.
My first pair of parrots lived 8 yrs and the other 8 1/2 years and neither had anything like this and were cared for the same as these.
Today I am beginning treatment with Maracyn as it's said to help with gill disease but if this does nothing, I am totally at a loss as to what next to try. They can't possibly be breathing correctly in this condition. I will be treating the whole tank to avoid moving them causing stress.
I do notice the most stress I see them in is after a water change and now wondering if unstaturated gasses adds to this problem or has even caused it. I have even considered adding salt to the tank.
Any idea you can toss out there?
No. I know you keep excellent water conditions.
However...if it's a virus...the antibiotic won't work.
If it's gram - or gram + bacteria, you'll need the different formulations.
Maybe try both and risk killing off your BB?
Lady Hobbs
03-31-2011, 05:23 PM
Neither of those meds harm the BB according to the manufacturer.
I may try Epsom Salt next. Anyone have a dose for a 55 gallon and how long it should stay in the tank before doing a water change?
I'd double check. I think Maracyn does kill BB...it's erythromycin...
But I can't find a really definitive source either...
I'd double check. I think Maracyn does kill BB...it's erythromycin...
But I can't find a really definitive source either...
I highly doubt a fish med would kill BB. Especially one that is a proven medicine that is in almost every petstore. IMO I would use it if I was you hobbs, you got to get the problem solved.
I highly doubt a fish med would kill BB. Especially one that is a proven medicine that is in almost every petstore. IMO I would use it if I was you hobbs, you got to get the problem solved.
...antibiotics kill bacteria...beneficial bacteria are bacteria....erythromycin is a broad-spectum bacteria killer...
Even you say it's a 'proven' medicine that kills bacteria.
So why not?
If you know something about gram - or gram + or other physiological processes in the BB that might resist or not be targeted by a given antibiotic...or if the BB are a special strain of bacteria unaffected by antibiotics...
Then I'm all ears!
Lady Hobbs
03-31-2011, 07:12 PM
I was going by this description so hope it's correct. If not, I have no choice anyway as they need to be treated.
Maracyn Freshwater
Antibiotic (Erythromycin) tablets are recommended for the treatment of body fungus (Columnaris), fin and tail rot, popeye, gill disease and secondary infections. Erythromycin is a broad-spectrum antibiotic which has been shown to be effective against a number of pathogenic bacteria associated with ornamental fish disease.
When used at the recommended dosage Maracyn maintains a therapeutic level of the drug within the aquarium. Maracyn does not color the water and will not interfere with the biological filter.
Mardel Maracyn Two
This powdered antibiotic dissolves and acts quickly to treat a variety of diseases in fish. Thanks to its unique formula, the powder is absorbed by fish through the skin. The powder will not interfere with the biological filter.
For saltwater fish
Treats popeye, gill disease, fin and tail rot, dropsy, septicemia, secondary and internal infections and cotton wool disease
Fast-dissolving and quick-acting powder is absorbed by fish through the skin
May cloud the water but will not interfere with the biological filter
Includes a Fish Care Guide
I didn't find that info. for the Maracyn...but did with for the Maracyn II...
I think I'll e-mail Maracyn...now I'm curious (and avoiding work)...good, useful, procrastination project...
...already failed...can't find an e-mail address...:help:
Internet concensus appears to be that Maracyn kills BB. Maracyn II might not.
Dunno how accurate it is...but that's based on anedotal opinion and personal experience ...
Internet concensus appears to be that Maracyn kills BB. Maracyn II might not.
Dunno how accurate it is...but that's based on anedotal opinion and personal experience ...
I would love to see your proof. My proof is easy, a well known medication states in does not kill the BB.
So I have decided to do my own research. Mostly everyone has had no problems with it.
Here in this link, the person used it agaisnt a algae break out, but there was fish in the tank and he had no problems.
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This link had a question on a forum just like this. There was many ways accounts on how it worked, but to make sure to keep your tank with a airstone and make sure to moniter your parameters.
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There are a few bad accidents, but someone like hobbs could watch her parameters and she will be fine.
mommy1
03-31-2011, 09:29 PM
2nd paragraph of the article in this link.
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product information in this link.
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about 1/3 of the way down in the paragraph in this link.
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Cermet
03-31-2011, 10:16 PM
Might it not be wise for someone with time to test this? Just run a well seasoned sponge filter in a QT, that is feed 2 ppm ammonia every day as well as the proper dose of antibiotic and see if the ammonia levels constantly fall, struggle to fall, or build up each time ammonia is added. Then QED.
Considering what most people risk treating fish in a QT with an active biofilter, someone, I think, would profit to test this before they lose a very valuable fish.
Arguing here without independent data proves little and mfg. lie more than I like and without proof, I'd be wary (or as they say, the reseracher oftens dosn't include some minor details like at a therapeutic does level that is effective for most fish, the BB is killed but that is not what they meant in their instructions ...) Empirical proof trumps all.
My two cents worth ... .:hmm3grin2orange:
Lady Hobbs
04-01-2011, 04:28 AM
Typed this out since my bloody scanner wouldn’t cooperate!
Effects of Biological Filtration
Nitrobacter and Nitrorosomas are widely recognized as the primary beneficial bacteria present in biological filtration system of every aquarium. Some drugs which treat fish disease and parasite infestations are harmful to these “good” bacteria. When the biological filter is upset, there is a build-up of ammonia and nitrite concentrations resulting in fish distress and sometimes death. Mardel products have been tested with these known strains of bacteria with no adverse effects. When used as directed, they do not interfere with the biological filter.
NOTE: In heavily stocked tanks it is important to actively monitor ammonia and nitrite levels because during treatment fish may excrete more waste materials. After treatment it is always beneficial to add a booster to the biological filter with the use of a bacterial culture treatment.
Precautions: If activated carbon is used and more than 6 days old, it is not necessary to remove it but fresh carbon should be removed as well as certain chemical sponges should be removed.
(I removed my Chemi-Pure) And hopefully we are all smart enough to check after medicating with anything to be sure our cycle is not lost. If I have a spike, I will simply switch my canister filter from my other tank to this one. No need to search the net, send e-mail and all this foolishness when I'm holding the directions right in my hand?
Now can we stop arguing about the bloody medication and get back on topic? I still would like an anwer to my question in the first post about how much Epsom Salts and how long.
Thank You
mommy1
04-01-2011, 05:05 AM
sorry hobbs, i have never used epsom salt for my fish. i have been trying to find a concrete answer for you but can't find one. i find amounts from 1/8 tsp up to 1tbs per gallon. might be best to use the medication.
Lady Hobbs
04-01-2011, 05:09 AM
Thanks. I am medicating right now. Will keep it up for 6 days. I was just thinking about the Epsom should the medication not do anything.
The Eposm salt scare me more than any medication, actually. I've heard not to put it in the main tank but use it in a bucket and just let the fish remain in the solution for a few minutes until they become stressed. That's the part that bothers me.
Dave66
04-01-2011, 05:16 AM
Just for edification, Maracyn is an antibiotic that kills Gram Positive bacteria. The Nitrifying bacteria are Gram Negative, meaning Maracyn shouldn't affect the Nitrifying bacteria at all.
That said, I'd err on the side of caution and treat affected fish in separate containers of tank water rather than using any antibiotic in a main aquarium.
Dave
Lady Hobbs
04-01-2011, 05:28 AM
Oh Oh. Had no choice, Dave. No where else to put 5 full grown parrots.
Just for edification, Maracyn is an antibiotic that kills Gram Positive bacteria. The Nitrifying bacteria are Gram Negative, meaning Maracyn shouldn't affect the Nitrifying bacteria at all.
That said, I'd err on the side of caution and treat affected fish in separate containers of tank water rather than using any antibiotic in a main aquarium.
Dave
Then that means the Maracyn Two will kill the nitrifying bacteria since it kills the gram - bacteria.
I would love to see your proof. My proof is easy, a well known medication states in does not kill the BB.
Told you I had no proof...you don't have any either. And we all know that manufacturers are always above board in their advertising...right?
Your opinion that antibiotics won't kill bacteria doesn't work for me...so there...:fish2:
[FONT=Georgia]Now can we stop arguing about the bloody medication and get back on topic? I still would like an anwer to my question in the first post about how much Epsom Salts and how long.
Thank You
Okay! No idea about Epsom salts...sorry. I hope it works out for you. But just in case I'm right...watch for ammonia spikes...hope I'm wrong.
Lady Hobbs
04-01-2011, 03:57 PM
*Mardel products have been tested with these known strains of bacteria with no adverse effects. When used as directed, they do not interfere with the biological filter*
I am taking that to mean all Mardel products went thru testing. I also believe the bacteria that fish get is not the same bacteria as is in our tanks (Nitrorosomas).
But, as stated above, it is best to be careful after dosing with any medications and test several times just to be safe.
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