What are my bigger tank options?

[SkarloeysMom]

I've been thinking about a bigger tank however, given the kind of tap water we have here I'm not sure what size would be practical as far as upkeep is concerned. Let me explain my thoughts and maybe there's flaws in my logic so please let me know. I'd love to find out that a 55 gallon would be possible someday.

Our tap water has .50ppm ammonia and the Ph is off the high end of the test so it could be 9 or 10. I'm not sure. Because of this I use Seachem Neutral Regulator to get rid of ammonia and bring down the Ph. Because I use a phosphate based buffer I can't have a planted tank. Plus having to adjust the water so much would get expensive when you consider 50% water changes in a 55 gallon tank. We have an RO drinking water system but the tank is too small to even do water changes on my 10g tank.

So given my tap water I'm thinking I should resist the urge to ever get anything bigger than a 30g tank. I know there are people who keep bigger tanks here but I wonder if its a huge hassle. There always seems to be 55g tanks and up on Craig's List but finding a good deal on a 20 or 30 is nearly impossible.

[Lady Hobbs]

Is it possible you could upgrade your RO system to one larger that will supply the amount of water you need for water changes? Doing so would keep that pH down and remove the ammonia. You use half RO and half tap water so your entire water change would not be all RO.

I don't know what kind of system you have but could it possibly need a new filter?

Many cichlids would like the higher pH but your level would definately be stretching it. However, to me your water will be a problem no matter what size tank you have. A pH of 10 is a pH of 10 whether it's a 30 gallon or a 55 gallon so you'll have the problem no matter what size tank you get.

[minabird]

I've been thinking about a bigger tank however, given the kind of tap water we have here I'm not sure what size would be practical as far as upkeep is concerned. Let me explain my thoughts and maybe there's flaws in my logic so please let me know. I'd love to find out that a 55 gallon would be possible someday.

Our tap water has .50ppm ammonia and the Ph is off the high end of the test so it could be 9 or 10. I'm not sure. Because of this I use Seachem Neutral Regulator to get rid of ammonia and bring down the Ph. Because I use a phosphate based buffer I can't have a planted tank. Plus having to adjust the water so much would get expensive when you consider 50% water changes in a 55 gallon tank. We have an RO drinking water system but the tank is too small to even do water changes on my 10g tank.

So given my tap water I'm thinking I should resist the urge to ever get anything bigger than a 30g tank. I know there are people who keep bigger tanks here but I wonder if its a huge hassle. There always seems to be 55g tanks and up on Craig's List but finding a good deal on a 20 or 30 is nearly impossible.

Here's a link to some brackish water plants that should be able to survive your high ph. [Only Registered Users Can See Links.] The plants will eventually bring down the ph and will use the ammonia as a nutrient, reducing it. You can also throw in some bog wood to reduce the ph of your water. This will reduce your use of the buffer. This might be a good inexpensive experiment for you to try on one of your small tanks. Since the ph of your tapwater is so high, you will have to do frequent small water changes to keep the ph fluctuations down to a minimum. Once you get the routine down, I don’t see why you couldn’t get a 55+ gal tank.

Or you could always have a brackish water tank!

[dev]

The Zac Carbo Plus CO2 unit has a nice side effect of eating carbonates. One of these would both provide CO2 for your plants, bring down the pH a little, and help lower the KH bringing the pH down a little more.

Combining different techniques like driftwood, filtering over peat, adding CO2, using partly RO water and having the kind of plants minabird suggested could work quite well to create a stable environment.

Using a CO2 system with a pH controller could provide the extra stability you would need between water changes, either with a Carbo Plus unit, or a pressurized system.

Sounds like an interesting challenge :)

[SkarloeysMom]

Is it possible you could upgrade your RO system to one larger that will supply the amount of water you need for water changes? Doing so would keep that pH down and remove the ammonia. You use half RO and half tap water so your entire water change would not be all RO.

I don't know what kind of system you have but could it possibly need a new filter?

Many cichlids would like the higher pH but your level would definately be stretching it. However, to me your water will be a problem no matter what size tank you have. A pH of 10 is a pH of 10 whether it's a 30 gallon or a 55 gallon so you'll have the problem no matter what size tank you get.

Our RO system is a simple home system for drinking water that has only a 3g tank undersink. It takes forever to refill the system once you drain out about a gallon. Its not upgradeable because of our limited space and DH's reluctance to spend the money on it.

I was afraid that I would hear that the Ph would always be a problem. I consider it a manageable limitation in small tanks like I have but it would turn into a problem if I had anything bigger. Oh well, thanks for confirming my thoughts on this issue. Perhaps I'll get a 20g someday and then stop there. Or look into the idea of a brackish tank as Kevin suggested.

[SkarloeysMom]

The Zac Carbo Plus CO2 unit has a nice side effect of eating carbonates. One of these would both provide CO2 for your plants, bring down the pH a little, and help lower the KH bringing the pH down a little more.

Combining different techniques like driftwood, filtering over peat, adding CO2, using partly RO water and having the kind of plants minabird suggested could work quite well to create a stable environment.

Using a CO2 system with a pH controller could provide the extra stability you would need between water changes, either with a Carbo Plus unit, or a pressurized system.

Sounds like an interesting challenge :)

It is a challenge...unfortunately, I don't think I'm up for the challenge at this point. It would not be practical and DH would never go for it. I'll have to study up on all you've suggested and see if I think I can ever make it work.

I've recently added a piece of Swahala wood to my 5g and 10g and I will try slowly reducing the amount of Ph neutralizer I add and see what happens. This will be my first experiment in naturally lowering the Ph so we'll see I guess. I also may try an experiment with aged my water although that would not be practical for big water changes either.

[zackish]

You also don't NEED to have a planted tank. A kid I know at my LFS has a sick cichlid tank. It's really amazing. It's a 40 gallon and he took bricks and laid them all across the back of the tank like weaving in and out of each other. One row went one way the other row went the other way. THe fish loved hiding in there and going in and out. Other than that there were a few pieces of driftwood and some fake plants.

I actually was just looking at the submissions for TOTM and I saw on the second page, "Thetanks" tank is similar to what the kid I know did. You could do somethign like that sort of design.

[RobbieG]

This method looks fairly simple to try and probably wouldn't cost a whole lot (cost of a bucket and a bag of peat). It looks to significantly drop the PH and hardness of the water the guy had

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

You also get to test it outside the tank

[SkarloeysMom]

This method looks fairly simple to try and probably wouldn't cost a whole lot (cost of a bucket and a bag of peat). It looks to significantly drop the PH and hardness of the water the guy had

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

You also get to test it outside the tank

I just read this reply because I had pretty much written off a bigger tank. Thank you, thank you, thank you so much! thumbs2: I've bookmarked the page for future reference. This method actually looks possible for me. Its kinda like brewing a pot of coffee and I'm pretty good at that! It wouldn't take too much cost to set it up and after some experimentation I could probably get it down to a science.

I was window shopping at our only really good LFS today and I saw a lady walking out with a big square plastic bottle of water. I just had to ask what she was getting. They sell RO water at the store. My guess was right. People here actually buy water for their tanks. I've seen people before lugging 4 or 5 of those bottles out to their car. I will not be doing that anytime soon.

[NWMountainTroll]

Get a big garbage can and fill it with your water and treat the water in that, then use it to do water changes.

[Rue]

R/O water really isn't the best for FW tanks...you're better off with ordinary (good) tap water...

...if you keep adding R/O I'm pretty sure you'll eventually have to start adding trace minerals to keep the fish healthy...and that's likely not easy to do...

Our well water is high in tannins...we just haul ordinary tap water from the city...it's not a huge deal...

We do haul R/O water for the SW tank...from the reef store...because like yours, our R/O system takes too long...and is too expensive to change cartridges often enough if I started using it for tank water...

[SkarloeysMom]

R/O water really isn't the best for FW tanks...you're better off with ordinary (good) tap water...

...if you keep adding R/O I'm pretty sure you'll eventually have to start adding trace minerals to keep the fish healthy...and that's likely not easy to do...

Our well water is high in tannins...we just haul ordinary tap water from the city...it's not a huge deal...

We do haul R/O water for the SW tank...from the reef store...because like yours, our R/O system takes too long...and is too expensive to change cartridges often enough if I started using it for tank water...

Oh I'm not using RO and I don't want to except for top offs. Someone told me when I first got started here that RO would need additives so it didn't make sense to me. Either way I'd need to add stuff to it.