How to lower pH levels safely

[Juannie]

My pH levels are quite high at the moment, our tap water for some reason has increased, does anyone know a safe way to decrease it? I've tried the pH lower powder but it's not that great.

[Lady Hobbs]

Runng peat thru your filters is the only natural way that I know of without an RO system unless you want to buy water.

You can buy peat pellets and put them in a bag.

[dev]

In addition to filtering over peat, there are a few other fairly natural ways that I can think of.

* Adding CO2 will significantly lower your pH. If you have a planted tank this is the way to go.
* Having oak leaves, driftwood and mangrove roots in the tank will reduce the pH slightly over time.
* Adding a few drops of oak bark extract during water changes will also lower the pH, without tanning the water. Works pretty much the same way as a pH- kind of product, only more natural and less expensive.

Keep in mind that all changes to pH should be done slowly, a little at a time.

[Lady Hobbs]

Ever try the Black Water Extract Dev? Been thinking of getting it but I think it would get expensive after awhile.

[sergo]

buffers are probably the best way to lower ph but they can be a little tricky if you don't know how to use them.

[dev]

buffers are probably the best way to lower ph but they can be a little tricky if you don't know how to use them.

What do you mean by buffers?

All the things I associate with the word "buffer" works the other way ;)


Ever try the Black Water Extract Dev? Been thinking of getting it but I think it would get expensive after awhile.

No, haven't tried any, mainly because I havent seen any available around here. Though, it sounds like they work pretty much the same way as filtering over peat or adding oak bark extract.

[ChurchofAdam]

a buffer (in this context) is a chemical/substance that causes the overall solution to resist pH change (in either direction). I think usually it does this by taking up H that would otherwise increase H3O+ (increasing acidity) or OH- (decreasing acidity). Think of a buffer as having a maximum capacity to resist pH change in one direction. Once that is expended, the solution responds normally. water hardness (I believe KH) automatically buffers your water to some extent. for example, my water is very hard and DIY CO2 doesn't change it whatsoever.

[dev]

a buffer (in this context) is a chemical/substance that causes the overall solution to resist pH change (in either direction). I think usually it does this by taking up H that would otherwise increase H3O+ (increasing acidity) or OH- (decreasing acidity). Think of a buffer as having a maximum capacity to resist pH change in one direction. Once that is expended, the solution responds normally. water hardness (I believe KH) automatically buffers your water to some extent. for example, my water is very hard and DIY CO2 doesn't change it whatsoever.

Carbonates only provide a buffer against acidic ions, and will effectively increase the pH of pure water as it counteracts the dissolved CO2. I know of no buffer that will decrease the pH below 7, hence my question. Do you know of any available products as such?

On the other hand I took physics instead of chemistry, so I could be missing large parts of the picture here ;)

[sergo]

well put. yes kh is what helps ph stability.

[sergo]

Carbonates only provide a buffer against acidic ions, and will effectively increase the pH of pure water. I know of no buffer that will decrease the pH, hence my question. Do you know of any available products as such?acid buffer lowers ph, but you need to use it in conjunction with an alkaline buffer in order to maintain a specific ph.

[ChurchofAdam]

I should probably also add that each buffer "tries" to centre the pH at a certain level. That's why in certain cases adding a buffer could increase or decrease the pH on its own. carbonate hardness (KH) depends on CaCO3 and I think buffers to somewhere above neutral (7). something like 7.5.

[ChurchofAdam]

I don't know of any aquarium hobby product that will buffer to low pHs, but they definitely exist. if you've calibrated an electronic pH metre in science class (highschool or whatever) you generally use a 7 pH buffer and a 4 pH buffer. (one's pink and the other is yellow, if that jogs anybody's memory ;) )

[sergo]

I don't know of any aquarium hobby product that will buffer to low pHs, but they definitely exist. if you've calibrated an electronic pH metre in science class (highschool or whatever) you generally use a 7 pH buffer and a 4 pH buffer. (one's pink and the other is yellow, if that jogs anybody's memory ;) )seachem acid buffer and alkaline buffer. i have them both and use them regularly.

[dev]

I don't know of any aquarium hobby product that will buffer to low pHs, but they definitely exist. if you've calibrated an electronic pH metre in science class (highschool or whatever) you generally use a 7 pH buffer and a 4 pH buffer. (one's pink and the other is yellow, if that jogs anybody's memory ;) )

I have a couple of these little electronic pH instruments ;)

I believe my pH 4.01 buffer solution from Hanna Instruments contains a strong acid along with a number of salts and buffers. The pH 4.01 is red, the ph 7.01 is green and the 10.01 is blue. The ones from Trans Instruments are all clear.

The way I understand it the acidic content (in the 4.01 solution) provides the low pH, while the buffer makes the solution resistant to change, and the salts simply provide ions to improve readings.

It is also possible that I'm simply mixing up the terminology :)

[Lady Hobbs]

a buffer (in this context) is a chemical/substance that causes the overall solution to resist pH change (in either direction). I think usually it does this by taking up H that would otherwise increase H3O+ (increasing acidity) or OH- (decreasing acidity). Think of a buffer as having a maximum capacity to resist pH change in one direction. Once that is expended, the solution responds normally. water hardness (I believe KH) automatically buffers your water to some extent. for example, my water is very hard and DIY CO2 doesn't change it whatsoever.

Same here! I can run 2 -CO2 bubblers in a 20 gallon and have no change in pH at all. If I do, it's so slight that it's undetectable.

And if you want to see even weirder, I am one of "those" that have 0 nitrates. A few times in a dirty tank I got a reading of 10 but after my water change it was right back to 0. And what really tossed me for a loop, the last two times I cycled a tank, when it was finished with the cycle, the high nitrates disappeared. The cycle was done, ammonia 0, nitrites 0 and nitrates were 80. The following day 40 and the next morning 0.

I think it's very hard to tell a person how their water should be as we all have different water municipals, wells, RO systems and water softeners. What one persons ability to change their water chemistry would be has no bearing on another persons when we have no idea of what additive is in their water supply or if they have any at all.

It's too confusing for me to try to figure it out. As long as my fish are happy in their hard water with a pH of 7.6 and no nitrates then I'm happy too.
thumbs2:

[dev]

Based on your information, I'll do some quick guessing to identify the cause of all this strangeness ;)


Same here! I can run 2 -CO2 bubblers in a 20 gallon and have no change in pH at all. If I do, it's so slight that it's undetectable.

I'm guessing you have either an airstone, a hangon filter, a powerhead or something else that causes agitation in the water surface. Any CO2 you add will quickly escape to the air, and thus will not cause a drop in pH.


And if you want to see even weirder, I am one of "those" that have 0 nitrates. A few times in a dirty tank I got a reading of 10 but after my water change it was right back to 0.

I'm guessing you have a moderately stocked planted tank, or you have chemical filtration. You may want to consider adding nitrates to improve plant growth. Have you had any trouble with cyanobacteria (blue-green algea)?


And what really tossed me for a loop, the last two times I cycled a tank, when it was finished with the cycle, the high nitrates disappeared. The cycle was done, ammonia 0, nitrites 0 and nitrates were 80. The following day 40 and the next morning 0.

Ok, most likely chemical filtration then. I can't see plants eating up 40 ppm in a day :)


I think it's very hard to tell a person how their water should be as we all have different water municipals, wells, RO systems and water softeners. What one persons ability to change their water chemistry would be has no bearing on another persons when we have no idea of what additive is in their water supply or if they have any at all.

True. Some water plants do some very funky stuff to your water. There are a few tricks to figure most of them out, however.

My favourite is where they add large amounts of CO2 to your water and filter it over marble. This will give you tap water with a very low pH often between 5 and 6, that mysteriously changes to something between 7 and 8 in your tank. Now if that won't confuse the newbie aquarist I don't know what will :D

[Lady Hobbs]

Based on your information, I'll do some quick guessing to identify the cause of all this strangeness ;)



I'm guessing you have either an airstone, a hangon filter, a powerhead or something else that causes agitation in the water surface. Any CO2 you add will quickly escape to the air, and thus will not cause a drop in pH. I have hang ons but keep the water level up and have even removed the wheels. No pump and no air stones in the planted tank. I use air stones in the unplanted tanks, however.



I'm guessing you have a moderately stocked planted tank, or you have chemical filtration. You may want to consider adding nitrates to improve plant growth. Have you had any trouble with cyanobacteria (blue-green algea)?

I have 4 tanks and only one 20 gallon is planted. No blue-green algae but my planted tank is beginning to get a bit of the brown which I expected in a newly planted tank. Just a very small amount so far.

Ok, most likely chemical filtration then. I can't see plants eating up 40 ppm in a day :) I use no carbon at all in any of my tanks. Nothing but filter floss. And the tank was not planted at that time. All of my tanks have a reading of 0 nitrates.

True. Some water plants do some very funky stuff to your water. There are a few tricks to figure most of them out, however.

My favourite is where they add large amounts of CO2 to your water and filter it over marble. This will give you tap water with a very low pH often between 5 and 6, that mysteriously changes to something between 7 and 8 in your tank. Now if that won't confuse the newbie aquarist I don't know what will :D

Maybe my treatment plant adds something to reduce nitrates???? Many of the water municipals, mostly those in bigger cities, are now using ammonia to purify their water where they used to use chloramine. They've found out the ammonia lasts longer so have switched over. People are also wondering now why they are suddenly having ammonia right from the tap.

I've scratched my head a few times over having no nitrates. I was told so many times I was nuts and that I HAD to have them that I actually ran a poll here and found out others show 0, as well. I will say I keep my tanks very clean and every week the gravel is cleaned.

[dev]

Maybe my treatment plant adds something to reduce nitrates???? Many of the water municipals, mostly those in bigger cities, are now using ammonia to purify their water where they used to use chloramine. They've found out the ammonia lasts longer so have switched over. People are also wondering now why they are suddenly having ammonia right from the tap.

I've scratched my head a few times over having no nitrates. I was told so many times I was nuts and that I HAD to have them that I actually ran a poll here and found out others show 0, as well. I will say I keep my tanks very clean and every week the gravel is cleaned.

It is possible. I've not heard of any plants here that uses ammonia, so that's a whole new consideration to me. Only a very few plants here uses chloramine, most use small amounts of chlorine. There could be some sort of chemical that binds the nitrates.

There could also be some strange buffer, that I've never heard of, in the water that prevents the CO2 from changing your pH, but I would still try a conventional CO2 test to make sure the DIY is actually having an effect. Noone here uses hangon filters so my experience with them is very limited. Adding CO2 without seeing a pH drop would have me very concerned indeed.

edit> It would be very intersting to see what happens if you add nitrates to a bucket of your tap water. And since the potential lack of a pH drop has me deeply concerned (it could make a pressurized system with a pH controller into a fish killing machine), I think I will have a word with my sister about it. She has her PhD in biochemistry and does research on commercial fishkeeping, she is very concerned with water supply :) I'll ask her about nitrate removing chemicals aswell. Her doctorate paper was on nitrate regulation in plants. If there is a way to bind it, she will know for sure.

[Juannie]

In addition to filtering over peat, there are a few other fairly natural ways that I can think of.

* Adding CO2 will significantly lower your pH. If you have a planted tank this is the way to go.
* Having oak leaves, driftwood and mangrove roots in the tank will reduce the pH slightly over time.
* Adding a few drops of oak bark extract during water changes will also lower the pH, without tanning the water. Works pretty much the same way as a pH- kind of product, only more natural and less expensive.

Keep in mind that all changes to pH should be done slowly, a little at a time.

Ok I'm totally confused, I thought this would be an easy question. I've used a pH buffer to keep it at 7 but my fish like it around 6.6 - 6.8 - because they were used to it. Our tap water is around 8. The above products I've never heard of in Australia. I don't have plants because I honestly don't have the time to care for them and they're too messy, though I might go and grab oxygen weed to see if this helps, I know my fish loved that stuff.

It's very difficult because one minture our tap water is 7 the next it's pH8+.

[Chrona]

The fish will adapt. No need to keep messing with the pH. Fighting a tap water pH of 8.0 is shooting yourself in the foot unless you have a RO/DI unit.

[Juannie]

But if the pH is jumping that much won't they start being more susceptible to disease and illness? I'm already loosing kribs this week. I know whenever there's been a drop or spike previously they haven't looked too happy.

[Go Guppy]

Ok I'm totally confused, I thought this would be an easy question. I've used a pH buffer to keep it at 7 but my fish like it around 6.6 - 6.8 - because they were used to it. Our tap water is around 8. The above products I've never heard of in Australia. I don't have plants because I honestly don't have the time to care for them and they're too messy, though I might go and grab oxygen weed to see if this helps, I know my fish loved that stuff.

It's very difficult because one minture our tap water is 7 the next it's pH8+.

G'day Juannie

Once they get the new RO plant running on the 'Coast, hopefully the pH in the tap water will stabilise! You should be able to get peat granules in your LFS, placing a handful of these in the filter works well over time. I have put a handful in an old nylon stocking and just placed this in the tank (hidden somewhat by the plants and this also worked well).

Similarly, a piece of mangrove root from a LFS over time will lower the pH, but in the short term may cause the water to take on a pale tea coloured hue. This can be countered by water changes and the occasional use of activated carbon in your filter, but of course the carbon would negate the lowering of the pH you're trying to achieve. :sconfused:

I also suspect that you may have a reactive type of gravel in the substrate, which is slowly dissolving and causing the pH to rise. As removing or replacing the substrate is a major job, it would be easier to look for fish that appeal to you which like a higher pH; cichlids maybe? :ezpi_wink1:

Good luck and let us know how you go.

Hooroo

[salman]

There a lot of medications that can lower the pH safely. Driftwood also helps lower the pH and GH but it wont happen in a blink of an eye. It will happen over time.

[gm72]

"There a lot of medications that can lower the pH safely."

I strongly disagree. First of all, medications are used to treat illness. Secondly, if you are using chemicals to stabilize pH, there is something else wrong that should first be examined and corrected. Finally, are you able to name any of the "medications" to which you refer?

[Go Guppy]

I think Salman may have meant "chemicals" in stead of "medications"??:c5:

Cheers