heavy planted 10g with RCS yay or nay?

[modster]

I have decided to start a heavy planted 10g. It's probably too small for fish so i was thinking about RCS instead. However, after some googling, some people say shrimps should not be kept in a heavy planted tank and others say plants improve the water quality. So who's correct? I have also heard about adding dried leaves into the tank. Is it necessary? Is there any more things i need to know?

[Drumachine09]

I have decided to start a heavy planted 10g. It's probably too small for fish so i was thinking about RCS instead. However, after some googling, some people say shrimps should not be kept in a heavy planted tank and others say plants improve the water quality. So who's correct? I have also heard about adding dried leaves into the tank. Is it necessary? Is there any more things i need to know?


Shrimp are very popular in planted tanks, but are highly suceptable to nitrate poisoning, (exspecially cherry shrimp). Plants+weekely 30% water changes reduce that possibility.

[modster]

That's what i thought, but http://www.petshrimp.com/articles/keepingshrimp.html says this.
"experience has shown that using such plants has adverse affects on the microorganism fauna in the tank, on which the shrimp feed. Fast growing plants compete very efficiently with the types of algae, bio-film and other microorganisms that usually grow in the tank and form a very important part of the shrimp diet, thereby turning the tank into a biological "dead zone." The plants take away both the nutrients and the light necessary for microorganisms to survive and thrive."

edit- i will be dosing seachem fourish excel, which kill algea. is that ok?

[Algenco]

Don't load it with fast growing plants. Slow growing plant are good and provide hiding placed for young shrimp.

[dev]

A dash of java moss will provide a permanent feeding ground for your shrimp, and will keep them happily busy cleaning it all day long :)

I suggest adding a few fish aswell to keep the nitrogen cycle going strong. A couple of guppies, endler's or killies will eat a little algea and more importantly the layer of proteins that often form on the surface of heavily planted tanks with low water circulation.

You will often find that you need relatively strong lights in such a small planted tank. I would suggest no less than 1 watts per liter (standard T8 light tube watts) even for plants with moderate light requirement.

Make sure you keep the nitrate levels up while not letting them get high enough to poison your shrimp. Strong lighting, slow circulation and low nitrates will likely give you a serious BGA problem. 10-15 ppm sounds like a good place to be.

One place to find people with serious experience on planted nano-tanks is:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/planted-nano-tanks/

[Algenco]

Missed your question about Excel, I used it in my shrimp tank to kill staghorn algae at 3-4 times recommended amount with no ill effects.

[hungryhound]

That's what i thought, but http://www.petshrimp.com/articles/keepingshrimp.html says this.
"experience has shown that using such plants has adverse affects on the microorganism fauna in the tank, on which the shrimp feed. Fast growing plants compete very efficiently with the types of algae, bio-film and other microorganisms that usually grow in the tank and form a very important part of the shrimp diet, thereby turning the tank into a biological "dead zone." The plants take away both the nutrients and the light necessary for microorganisms to survive and thrive."

I have RCS in my tanks and I would not worry about this, because if the plants do their job and their is no algae the shrimp can easily find something to eat. All you have to do is feed them. Just make sure that the food you feed them contains no copper. as shrimp are just as succeptable to copper poisoning as nitrate poisoning.

I personally feed mine Hikari crab formula, but they will eat anything. Just be careful of overfeeding them as it will cause a nh3 spike that will cause you to loose some of your weaker specimens. I only feed 3-4 1 mm pellets every other day.


edit- i will be dosing seachem fourish excel, which kill algea. is that ok?

It shoud be fine as long as you do not go over the recommended dose. I dose flourish (trace), flourish Iron, P, and K with out any problems, but mine is to improve plant growth.

However, if you are simply dosing to get rid of algae you may not need to worry about that as your shrimp will take care of most forms of algae.,

[dev]

I thought flourish excel was a carbon addition, why would it kill algea? (other than helping your plants outcompete them)

[hungryhound]

I thought flourish excel was a carbon addition, why would it kill algea? (other than helping your plants outcompete them)

Good question. I have never used the stuff as I have vals and it melts them, but I have repeatedly seen excel quoted as having an algae killing side effect. I would guess that it is more complex than liquid carbon and that there is some other additive that causes the death of algae, but I have no scientific proof. So take that with a grain of salt.

I wonder if anyone knows the scientific reasoning or if it is just accepted that it works?

[Algenco]

There is a known scientific reason, the results to be published soon by Seachem and Tom Barr.

Grain of salt or not, as I said, I have used it kill algae! It works.

[RobbieG]

Good question. I have never used the stuff as I have vals and it melts them, but I have repeatedly seen excel quoted as having an algae killing side effect. I would guess that it is more complex than liquid carbon and that there is some other additive that causes the death of algae, but I have no scientific proof. So take that with a grain of salt.

I wonder if anyone knows the scientific reasoning or if it is just accepted that it works?

This is what's in it

Total Nitrogen 0.07%
Available Phosphate ( P2O5) 0.01%
Soluble Potash 0.37%
Calcium (Ca) 0.14%
Magnesium (Mg) 0.11%
Sulfur (S) 0.2773%
Boron (B) 0.009%
Chlorine (Cl) 1.15%
Cobalt (Co) 0.0004%
Copper (Cu) 0.0001%
Iron (Fe) 0.32%
Manganese (Mn) 0.0118%
Molybdenum (Mo) 0.0009%
Sodium (Na) 0.13%
Zinc (Zn) 0.0007%

Derived from: Potassium Chloride, Calcium Chloride, Copper Sulfate, Magnesium Chloride, Ferrous Gluconate, Cobalt Sulfate, Magnesium Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Boric Acid, Sodium Molybdate, Zinc Sulfate, Protein Hydrolysates.

[Algenco]

This is what's in it

Total Nitrogen 0.07%
Available Phosphate ( P2O5) 0.01%
Soluble Potash 0.37%
Calcium (Ca) 0.14%
Magnesium (Mg) 0.11%
Sulfur (S) 0.2773%
Boron (B) 0.009%
Chlorine (Cl) 1.15%
Cobalt (Co) 0.0004%
Copper (Cu) 0.0001%
Iron (Fe) 0.32%
Manganese (Mn) 0.0118%
Molybdenum (Mo) 0.0009%
Sodium (Na) 0.13%
Zinc (Zn) 0.0007%

Derived from: Potassium Chloride, Calcium Chloride, Copper Sulfate, Magnesium Chloride, Ferrous Gluconate, Cobalt Sulfate, Magnesium Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Boric Acid, Sodium Molybdate, Zinc Sulfate, Protein Hydrolysates.


That is
flourish trace or comprehensive
Excel contains polycyloglutacetal, a very dangerous chemical in pure form

[RobbieG]

Sorry - My bad

[modster]

Don't load it with fast growing plants. Slow growing plant are good and provide hiding placed for young shrimp.
So you agree with what the website says? The only problem is I am deciding on what to put into a fast-growing planted tank, not what plant should go with the shrimps :-\

Excel kills algea (and add carbon of course). I think they dont advertise it as algea-icide because of legal issue.

[Algenco]

So you agree with what the website says? The only problem is I am deciding on what to put into a fast-growing planted tank, not what plant should go with the shrimps :-\

Excel kills algea (and add carbon of course). I think they dont advertise it as algea-icide because of legal issue.

That and Seachem doesn't know how it works, Tom Barr supposedly knows and is working with them on this.

You could put a few fast growing plants in. In my 10 gal I have java moss, marselia , glosso, HC, java ferns, 2 small sprigs of ludwigia, and 1 small gaint leaf Hygro

[modster]

well... i guess there is only one way to find out:hmm3grin2orange:

[xoolooxunny]

I lost all my ghost shrimp when I started dosing seachem's line of flourish products. I even dose iodine for them once a month so they can molt properly, there is still plenty of light, but most of my plants are fast growing, and i have very very little algae, so i think that's what did them in.

[Algenco]

I lost all my ghost shrimp when I started dosing seachem's line of flourish products. I even dose iodine for them once a month so they can molt properly, there is still plenty of light, but most of my plants are fast growing, and i have very very little algae, so i think that's what did them in.

I've several posts by folks saying the same thing while others (including myself) have no problems.

I wonder if water hardness,ph, or minerals in different water sources has something to do with the problems?
My tap water has a PH of 7 and GH of 4 degrees.

I dose excel daily and flourish comprehensive 3x wk
and my shrimp are growing and breeding like cockroachs! I counted 7 berried females and have 2 hatchs of new shrimp, I'll probably have to start selling some next month to keep the population down.

[Dave-id]

after some googling, some people say shrimps should not be kept in a heavy planted tank and others say plants improve the water quality. So who's correct?

Both. Plants improve water quality by using up certain compounds that are very toxic to shrimp, like nitrates and phosphates. The only problem is that they can easily deplete the nutrients required for a lot of the shrimp's prime meal candidates.

Red cherries are supposed to be extremely hardy, and will happily subsist on whatever food you give them. The young will not be quite as successful, but in general your population will flourish. It's the more sensitive species, or the ones with young that have more explicit dietary requirements that would really suffer in a heavily planted tank.

As for additives? Lots of arguments on both sides there, especially if you frequent both the plantedtank forum, and the petshrimp forum. Personally, I'd be very wary adding any chemicals to a tank with shrimp in it, but lots of people have had great success breeding shrimp in fertilized tanks. It could be that the chemicals they added did not hurt the shrimp enough to be obvious, or they could in fact be 100% harmless.

If you're not looking to actively breed them, only maintain a healthy population, I would just use whatever ferts seem to be popular among people who also have shrimp.

[modster]

I guess there is no real answer to my questions. I will give it a go and see what happen. One last thing, how do you people deal with dead shrimps? I can just imagine the pain of finding it and getting it out.

[Dave-id]

If a shrimp dies in a heavily planted tank, you might not even notice the body. If you can, remove the body, but if not, I doubt it would cause a spike of anything. Cherries are just so small, the additional bioload of a single dead one is not going to overload your system. Also, shrimp are scavengers, they'll consume the dead one pretty quickly on their own if you can't get to it or don't know about it.