newbie to discus and need advice

[J-R]

hello all its been almost 2 months since i started my discus tank, it is well planted and about 5 ft length and 24"high around 140gal. im using 3 kinds of substrate: river sand, aged garden soil then river pebbles, got some 10 neons, 6 glowlights, 2 cories, 2 khuli loaches, 5 pink danios, 2 SAE, 2 fancy guppy and 5 WCMM, then 4 different discus: . its my first time to have them and i read alot of hard stuffs about this fishes i fell inloved with.

My discus:
cobalt blue - 3.8 inches
snakeskin - 3.5 inches
marlboro red - less than 3 inches
red royal torq - less than 3 inches

got some troubles i incountered..

1st. since its hard to find a breeder and a full grown discus in my city so i just got those 4 sizes.. in the 1st week they all hang together but in the 2nd week the pecking has begun. my royal red torq is always hiding in the driftwood and only comes out often.

2nd. during my 4th week my marlboro is sick so i quarantine it and as things began to be ok, got a major mistake buying a fake rocksalt that the local store sold me to cure him. so now there is only 3 left

3rd. saw some few snails in my tank and begining to grow and was wondering to ask if its ok to add yoyo loach to my tank

4th. my snakeskin and cobalt has been bonding well, they always stay close together and they will drive others away from them.. i noticed sometimes these two has a wierd shivering-like action <-- is it normal?

its been almost 2 months now and was hoping to hear from the experts here on what is the best way to do. obviously 3 discus is a bad number so do i need to add more discus? and i noticed local fish stores here only sells discus less than 3 inches...
i wish u guys could shed some light on my problems coz i really love discus ad i wanted it to be a success

[3dees]

I think you started off with the wrong substrate. young discus need to be fed 6-8 times per day and it's hard to keep a tank clean. should have gone bb or just sand. how are your water perameters? how much water are you changing? are the discus getting enough to eat? discus are slow eaters and all those other fish may be eating all the food before the discus have a chance. yeah, three is probably going to be a problem. you will get more aggression until your down to one. the fact that you got them from a lfs could be the problem. most lfs in my area have 2-3" discus and are not good quality. need a bit more info.

[J-R]

thanks for the reply sir.. my water seems fine and since our weather here is tropical so temp is not a problem, the last time i check all @ 7 on kit. it would be very hard for me to reset the tank so i was hoping for any other way i can manage its stability and im doing 30 percent a week wc. my discus is about 1 month and 2 weeks now in my tank and my cobalt and snakeskin been inseparable and seems doing well but my prob is the smaller red torq always hiding and seldom comesout coz the cobalt would chase him.. what would be my next move to help my red torq? LFS here has no available adults so i was wondering if its suitable to add 2 3" discus so the agression will not be concentrated with my red torq?

[Spardas]

Can you post a few pics of the discus and the tank setup please. Thanks.

[J-R]

here it is sir:

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]



[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

and this was the 1st 2 weeks before the pecking begins:
[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

[Adrian]

As I am no expert here, with keeping discus, I have 5 in my tank. They are all doing well, and have watched as the pecking order was established, and then re established, and established again. LOL I found that once I introduce food that they enjoy, they all seem to get along, however, the dominate one usually claims most of it, so... I added 2 cone feeders to my tank, so that on one side of my tank, the dominate one can have his/her way, and on the other side of the tank, the others can feed at leisure. I have noticed with keeping aquariums, that sometimes, the weak, or infected will get picked on the worst.

Be sure to do water changes on your tank each day. I am not saying a huge amount, but it should be done each day. Water changes, stability, and a decent food supply is your best advice that I can give you.

Hope you have luck with this.

[3dees]

with young discus and that gravel, one 30% wc per week won't cut it. sorry, but it's a fact. you may end up with stunted fish. my fish are almost adults and I do two 50-60% wc's per week.

[Sandz]

There are a couple red flags. You stated it was difficult for you to test the water? Why is that? Discuss, while not being the monsters of care they once were (assuming they aren't wild) still require a lot during their early stages. Babies under 4.5in should be fed 4-6 times a day. Also daily any uneaten food needs to be removed. This can be incorperated in your daily water change of 20-30%. A product such as Prime would help with protecting against any ammonia spikes but without a propper test kit you are defensless against what you cant see.

I would suggest you up the water changes to 2x/week of 60% and Prime will help any ammonia issues. Before recommending you add to your school of discus, you need to find out whats up with your water and get into a better cleaning routine.

What is the other stock in the tank?

[J-R]

thanks for the info sirs ^_^ other stocks in my tank are stated above. about the testing i cant do it every other day since im still in my masteral at the same time working at home and i will fallow the 2x a week water change..

i got another question since my tank is planted is it safe to use liquid ferts and liquid iron? atm im using homebrewed micro/macro

[WhiteDevil]

If any are alive and doing well its not the water.

your 4th question was about the shivering, yes its very normal and expected for them to communicate in this manner. its NORMAL, no worries.

I have a 210, had it for almost a year and got 20 discus in it. Ive lost quite a few in the past year but all the ones in there are vibrant and very healthy and have a well established hierarchy going for them. Ive lost discus to internal and external issues, some were just bad stock from their inception.

I just took delivery maybe 4 weeks ago on 2 wild blues and a wild heckle and they were fine in QT and stayed in there for 2 weeks with NO signs of anything, the same day they went into the display tank they got sick, mainly the heckle it started wasting away and hiding, it recovered with water changes and darkness, however after it was requarantined and the display tank was cleared out I got an outbreak of lateral line disease and it took out 2 very nice blue diamonds I had(its a genetic disease with blue strains) A few recovered and are doing great.

I do think your substrate choice was not a well researched choice. I had a natural tank like that and it took 6 months for it to be ready for rams.

[J-R]

thanks sir white.. dang i envy ur tank i wish i get another bigger tank. fortunately they are still breathing atm lol everyday i get home from school i sit and stare at my tank for hours and makes my day.

since im new to discus what other stuffs should i look out for? as i was reading more and more about how hard raising discus is and it made me worry too much perhaps soon i am the one with stripes ^_^

[WhiteDevil]

Discus now are no wheres near as hard as they once were to raise and keep.

Most store bought fish and a majority of breeders use treated tap water. 6 of mine came from 8.3Ph water

An RO unit isnt a MUST but its great to have as it rules out any issues with the water supply. I havnt kept them in any other water and ive had bad outbreaks of crap in the tank. Ive lost over a dozen discus so far most of it due to being segregated from the others by the others.

Ive found that a UV filter is an awesome add-on to a discus tank. Ive had mine on for two weeks and to be honest my fish have never looked nor acted better.

Im still working out kinks in my discus system, I just finished installing the wiring for the breeding rack I am building and its been a nearly year long process already and still going.
I wish you luck with your fish, any questions feel free to ask, We have over 45 years of FISH keeping experience from 1960 to present(took a break when I moved from california to chicago).

[Cermet]

Hello, and its good to be back.

Read your post and I am not sure you read the "sticky" on Discus.

First, water changes for young discus are critical (this is a fact that all experts agree on) - if you don't have time you made a big mistake getting them (I know, they are really pretty fish.) Water changes under 50% do little for discus water quality in the tank and doing them just twice a week is not very useful (but far better than once/week.)

I'd suggest 80%+ at least twice a week and more often when possible. If you don't believe me, please do the math and calculate remaining wastewater corrected for waste buildup after two or three days and you will see that under 50% is not useful and just does not remove very much waste water (no, bio-filter is not the issue here – that is true for common fish, not discus. They are very different fish and require ultra-clean water to really grow.)

That said, a larger tank does offer better stable conditions and does require fewer WC but for young discus, the more you change and the more often, the better - that just is a bad fact of life for keeping discus.

Also, just because they appear to be doing well does not mean a lot - while tough fish, they will not grow out to anywhere close to full size but that may be ok for you in which case, not a critical point.

A planted tank is fine but as stated (far more work but so nice looking – and your tank looks great), young discus need to be feed five or more times a day and you need to clean up after them.

Once the tank is in balance (filter cycled) you need rarely test the water unless you think something is wrong.

Also, most people say, and I agree, soil in any fish based aquarium is a very bad idea because you can't change out sand nor uproot plants without creating a huge mess (peat is ok for that but a big issue is that this deep sand/soil system will be starved for oxygen creating an anaerobic environment that will breed some very nasty bacteria that can do very bad things to the tank after a year or so – especially as liquid fish waste builds up in the sand layer (called diffusion and it is a fact of thermodynamics) I've learned that the very hard way.)

Everyone in the hobby has their own approach (and fish keeping is not a science) and we all have to learn for ourselves – all advice can go wrong and some common techniques fail and some things that are bad just don’t bother some fish – bottom-line: do what you feel is correct and take what you feel is good advice and ignore what you don’t feel is useful – it is your tank and fish. Enjoy and don’t worry to much about what anyone here says (Esp. what I say!) and enjoy the fun of fish keeping but do realize that the tank is a closed environment and a very hard thing to keep in balance. It is s great stress remover and well worth all the effort.

(Forgot to add - please do not feel you owe anyone an explanation for what you do with your thank or that you are not correct- this is a forum where ideas are exchanged and questions answered to the best of people's experience - you do not need to defend nor justify anything you do and this post should not be read as any implied criticism of your techniques. My points are only offered to aid in you learning and only take what you feel is useful. Good luck! and welcome to a great forum and hobby!:hmm3grin2orange: )