fulval 405

[sunnyjones003]

hi. i need your advice.
ive found a fulval 405 external filter to use with a 100g tank.
whats your thoughts??????

[YaYgoldFish]

maybe get a 405 with a 205 or something like that..some people use the fluval 405 on much smaller tanks...you might be able to use just the 405 but id get the other one just to be on the safe side.

[sunnyjones003]

ok ill use the 405 and maybe the 205 ive got

[sunnyjones003]

what about using a fulval FX5

[dev]

An FX5 for a less than 400 liter tank? Sounds like a bit of an overkill.

The FX5 pushes 3500 liters per hour and is designed for tanks up to 1500 liters. I've seen it used in a 720 liter, but nothing smaller than that. Might be better to get a slightly smaller Eheim filter (Hagen/Fluval doesnt have anything between 405 and FX5 as far as I know). Though I think a 405 combined with a 205 will provide pretty good filtering for a 100 gallon tank.

I don't know if the following is true, but the shopkeeper in one of my LFS's recently told me about a customer who bought an FX5 for a 500 liter. He came back with the unit claiming that with the output nozzle facing slightly downwards the waterstream would bounce of the bottom and over the edge on the other side of the tank.

[Fishguy2727]

You can turn down the flow on the FX5. Mine is on a 150 and I would not use it by itself on anything larger, or if I needed more flow or had dirtier fish. What kind of fish are you planning on? This is for a 100 gallon tank? Considering that the FX5 can handle 4x the tank size and should not even be close to 4x the price, it is usually worth going with the FX5 if you are between the two.

[dev]

Fishguy2727: I haven't tried it myself (The FX5 wasnt available when I had larger tanks), so I'll just take your word for it. And yes I assumed the FX5 could be adjusted, like the other x05 filters. If you need more flow, you might want to consider a powerhead instead of upgrading your filter. Thats quite a bit more flow for the buck.

sunnyjones003: While I can't figure out why anyone would want a filter that much oversized for any normal tank, I'll be very interested to know how it goes if you do decide to get an FX5

I tried a Fluval 303 in a 38 liter once. It didnt work :P

[sunnyjones003]

thank you for the advice
BUT
what im trying to find out is what external filter i can use on my 100g tank, only by using ONE?????

[RobbieG]

If fishguy says the the FX5 would work consider it carved in stone!

[sunnyjones003]

but in the manual it reads - 1300 LPH for aquariums up to 400 litres.

so that should be enough for my 100g tank would it.

ive got a lack of knowlage about filters as im a bigginer

[dev]

thank you for the advice
BUT
what im trying to find out is what external filter i can use on my 100g tank, only by using ONE?????

Two filters are better than one :)

But if I was getting a single filter to run a 100 gallon tank I believe I would be very happy with Eheim 2028.

On the other hand you can probably get the Fluval FX5 at the same price. Some people think Eheim is of better quality, but I've had little trouble with my Fluval filters (303, 403 and 205). What is clear is that a 2028 will be less noisy than an FX5. The FX5 is also huuuge :P

[sunnyjones003]

ok so Eheim 2028 is better quality than a fulval then.

but if a try this filter i will always have my fulval 105, 204, 205 on stand by.

[dev]

but in the manual it reads - 1300 LPH for aquariums up to 400 litres.

so that should be enough for my 100g tank would it.

ive got a lack of knowlage about filters as im a bigginer

If you are talking about the 405 - yes, according to Hagen it is designed for 400 liter tanks, but most people, myself included, think that it is good to have a filter that is slightly oversized. I would want something that was built for 600 liter or more.

For example:

My 125 liter tank has Fluval 205 designed for 200 liter (+ Juwel in-tank filter for circulation and backup)
My 190 liter tank has Fluval 303 designed for 300 liter (+ Juwel in-tank filter for circulation and backup)
My 110 liter tank has Juwel Compact H in-tank filter designed for 160-180 liter and this works fine too

[Lady Hobbs]

I think in any tank that long you'll need a filter for the other side even with a good canister. One end is rather a dead space and also needs filtration. A HOTB would work well on the opposite end.

[sunnyjones003]

ok so Eheim 2028 is better quality than a fulval then.

but if a try this filter i will always have my fulval 105, 204, 205 on stand by.

[sunnyjones003]

I think in any tank that long you'll need a filter for the other side even with a good canister. One end is rather a dead space and also needs filtration. A HOTB would work well on the opposite end.

what is a HOTB??

[Lady Hobbs]

hang on the back

Fluvals and Eheims are both good filters and both quiet and name brand. You can't go wrong with either. Fluvals have separate baskets to hold filter media and Eheims filter media all stack into one section incase that's something that may be of interest.

Personally for me, that's an option that I like so, for me personally, I would probably go with Fluval just for that reason.

[dev]

I think in any tank that long you'll need a filter for the other side even with a good canister. One end is rather a dead space and also needs filtration. A HOTB would work well on the opposite end.

Depends on what you mean by filtration. You don't need extra biliogical filtration, I doubt there will be any dead spots as such.

You might want extra circulation or extra particle filtering, but hangons are usually no better than canisters on this job. An in-tank filter or a powerhead would seem the right choice. I prefer in-tank filter as it gives me both extra circulation and particle filtering, and it works as a backup for the biological function of the canister.

Fluvals have separate baskets to hold filter media and Eheims filter media all stack into one section incase that's something that may be of interest.

Most Eheim's have baskets aswell, including the 2028 that I suggested as an option for this tank.

Here is a diagram of the 2026/2028: [Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

[sunnyjones003]

i got to admit you both know your stuff. im glad i found this forum or i would be really stuck.

[Fishguy2727]

My 150 is 6' long and has the FX5 on it. I have the intake in the middle of the left half and the output (which has two adjustable output nozzles) in the middle of the right half. This way the water goes in on the right and pulled into the filter on the left, guaranteeing full tank circulation. And since the output for the FX5 has two adjustable output nozzles, you can adjust them to maximize circulation.

The FX5 is big, but that means lots of room for media, which means cleaner water.

And as far as noise goes, I can't really tell mine is on, I have to open the door to the cabinet and stick my head in, even then I have to touch it to tell for sure.

I would not adjust the flow on the 05s. For one I have not had problems with too much flow with them on any of the tanks I have set them up on. But most importantly, flow needs to be controlled after ther pump, not before. Since the 05s have one flow control lever for incoming and outgoing water, if you mess with it at all, you will slow the water coming in. The FX5 has two separate flow control levers, one for incoming water and one for outgoing. This allows you to control the flow without limiting the flow of incoming water. If you reduce the flow of incoming water to a pump, it strains the pump and causes wear and can burn it out. This does not happen when flow is limited after it has gone through the pump.

There is no such thing as too much filtration. What a filter claims it can handle needs to be cut in half, and that is about the most credit I will give them. So when it says 'up to' 100 gallons, that means it is really about 50 gallons of filtration. Many are even over-rated going by the half rule. I think the FX5 is very easy to deal with. It has enough flow to keep the tank clean, and enough media space to get that job done.

[gm72]

Great series of posts, folks. I think with a 100 gallon I personally would get an Eheim 2028 and add an Aquaclear 110.

[dev]

This should have no real impact on your filter choice, sunnyjones003. But for the record, I don't agree with the following statements.

The FX5 is big, but that means lots of room for media, which means cleaner water.

There is no such thing as too much filtration.

While having more than adequate filtration will not do your tank any harm, it won't necessarily do it any good either.

The filters main function is to host important nitrogen bacteria; nitrosomonas that will break down ammonia and ammonium into nitrites, and nitrobacter that will break down nitrites into nitrates.

When there is an adequate amount of bacteria present in the tank environment there will be no measurable concentrations of either ammonia, ammonium or nitrites during normal tank operation.

When this have been achieved no amount of extra biological filtering will improve on the nitrogen cycle. No amount of extra biological filtermedia will improve the quality of the water.

Having more than adequate biological filtration will however help recovering from disruptions in the normal operation of the tank.

What a filter claims it can handle needs to be cut in half, and that is about the most credit I will give them

This is a much too narrow point of view. The amount of biological filtration actually needed in a tank is dependant on the biological load - eg. how much waste is produced.

This may vary greatly between different tanks of the same size.

The actual biological capacity of a given filter is dependant on a number of factors, the most important two being the amount of surfaces it provides for the nitrogen bacteria to live on, and enough circulation of water over those surfaces to give the same bacteria adequate access to oxygen and polluted water.

So dependant on the biological load and the type of filtermedia, a given filter may very well be able to provide adequate filtration for a specified tank size.

Or .. if your biological load on the tank is much higher than the manufacterer had in mind, it may not even be a fifth of what you need in a given situation.

I have been running Juwel tanks successfully for years and years with only the stock filter, that won't even compare to half the capacity of a Fluval filter for a given tank size. I have done this by adapting the livestock and feeding routines to the capacity of the filter.

The point I'm trying to make is that the numbers given by Hagen Fluval and Eheim are ballpark figures for what they consider an average requirement for filtering. They should be treated as such, and seen in the context of the load you plan for your tank, with some extra to give you a margin for error, the possibility to increase your load, and to assist recovery from disruptions.

edit> I figured this might need a bit of clearification; By disruptions I mean simple things like overfeeding or doing filter maintenance.

Thank you.

[Drumachine09]

Great series of posts, folks. I think with a 100 gallon I personally would get an Eheim 2028 and add an Aquaclear 110.


Hell, if i could afford a 100 (and i am still hoping to get a 125), i would go with dual 110s with the 2028

[Fishguy2727]

Biological filtration is one aspect of filtration, the other main aspect is mechanical filtration. Fluvals are good with this because they have a course mechanical media and media space provided. I set it up so the water then goes through fine mechanical media (polyester pillow stuffing crammed in to the media compartment). This provides a very fine/polishing media that helps keep the tank crystal clear. Then, I fill the rest of the media space with Biomax, a ceramic, high surface area media mad by Hagen. It is nice because it never needs to be replaced.

dev: I don't see what is not true about 'there is no such thing as too much filtration' or that 'more media space means cleaner water'. You actually seemed to support both of these statements.

Yes, if you limit yourself than you can have a filter handle as much as it claims it does and even more. But if I am going to setup a tank, I don't want to limit my stocking because of the filter. This is one reason I do not like all in one package setups, especially ones that you can't add filtration to. It limits your options.

When companies rate their filters, there are lots of variables and things that are different from the real world. One example is that the gph listed on many canisters is measured with a completely empty canister (no resistance) that is setup next to the tank (no head pressure), this allows a much higher gph than what you would achieve when the filter is under the tank with media. Another thing is filter maintenance. Most people do not maintain their filters on a monthly basis, in the lab they are probably maintaining them (cleaning them) at least every month, if not closer to a weekly basis. They are also most likely running tanks with very low stocking levels. All these contribute to a Fluval 405 handling a 100 gallon tank by itself, or a Penguin 350 handling a 75 all by itself. Because of all this, when you apply these filters to real world conditions (much less maintenance, much higher bioloads, etc.) you end up with a filter that cannot handle what it is rated for.

Because of this we have had to develop guidelines to assist people with filtration recommendations. Through all the experiences that people have, the average is that the best guideline is to cut what a filter claims in half/double up on filtration. I think this applies best to a moderately stocked community tank. That means a medium number of smaller fish. If you add more, larger, or messier fish, than even more filtration is needed. This is one reason why most of the time when people ask, 'what filter should I put on my x gallon tank?', my first question is, 'what is going to be in it?'.

And one important thing to remember is that it is not just a balance between bioload (mass of fish plus food that goes in to the tank) and filtration, but water changes play just as much of a role as the other two. Without the water changes, even a small bioload and massive filtration is not enough. The bioload supplies the waste, the filtration allows for the breakdown of that waste, and water changes remove the end product (nitrates).

[dev]

Fishguy2727: I think we have both gotten our points through quite well, and seeing how your second post shows a much broader angle, I believe we agree for the most part. Thanks for your informative input.

sunnyjones003: Hopefully you are now in a good position to choose proper filtration for your tank :)

Oh, and I think I'd like to add that there are other biproducts from the nitrogen cycle, excess trace elements from fertilizers, aswell as other contaminants that needs to be removed with a water change. So even if your concentration of nitrates is so low that you have to add nitrogen, thats no reason to slack on the water changes.

[Fishguy2727]

Adding nitrogen is a planted tank deal, something not necessary for most tanks. So unless this 100 gallon is going to be planted, we do not need to get into that.

[dev]

Adding nitrogen is a planted tank deal, something not necessary for most tanks. So unless this 100 gallon is going to be planted, we do not need to get into that.

It appears planted tanks is the standard in Europe, fake plants is the exception. Please excuse me for always assuming a tank will have at least some living plants :)

Anyway, adding nitrates was not my point. My point was that you should keep up your water changes even if you have nitrates within acceptable levels, there's other stuff that needs to go out that doesnt show up on an NO3 test.

[Fishguy2727]

Exactly. Phosphates can buildup, but these are also used by plants. One of the major things is growth inhibiting hormones. Many fish give them off, and the whole point of them is to stunt growth at higher concentrations. For many fish, this is the culprit for stunting and inability to thrive.

Planted is nice, but most Americans have a hard enough time getting the fish to live, so a whole additional dimension of care would not be a good thing. That, and many fish are not plant friendly.

[sunnyjones003]

yeah well i know my 100g tank is going to be planted quite a lot.
all this info has given me a right choise to chose the filter i need

[Fishguy2727]

What are the dimensions on the 100 gallon?

[sunnyjones003]

72x18x18 inches

[Fishguy2727]

That is 100 gallons.

[dev]

What are the dimensions on the 100 gallon?
72x18x18 inches
That is 100 gallons.

Um, are you sure you didn't have anything else in mind when asking for those dimensions?

[Fishguy2727]

No, not really.

[gm72]

Um, are you sure you didn't have anything else in mind when asking for those dimensions?

Sorry to intrude here, but what else would he have had in mind? I don't understand the question?

[dev]

Sorry to intrude here, but what else would he have had in mind? I don't understand the question?

Oh, I just thought it was pretty clear that it was a 100 gallon tank. Couldn't figure out what the last statement was all about. Thought he might have meant to say somtehing else that depended on the dimensions.

- Welcome to the aquarium support hotline, how can I assist you?
Q: I need some advice for my 100 gallon tank.
- How large is your 100 gallon tank?
Q: Well, it is just about 100 gallons.
- Ah yes, sounds like your 100 gallon tank is 100 gallons, then. Anything else?

Didn't make much sense to me, which is why I asked.
Now I can only assume Fishguy felt the size needed to be confirmed, which is kinda odd since he asked the same question in sunnyjones003's other thread about heating and lighting, and recieved a reply which he responded to. *shrug*

[Fishguy2727]

I don't keep track of who is who. I go thread by thread. Sometimes they connect, but usually when I respond to a thread I have no other thread in mind. There are too many tanks to keep track of between mine, the ones at work, and people at work, let alone trying to keep track of everyone's tanks online.

A 6' 100 gallon is an odd size. I have only seen 5' 100 gallons (my old one). I thought 6' started at 125, so it struck me as odd. And frequently people think they have one size tank, yet when the calculations are done, it is not what they were told.

What is going in this tank?

[dev]

Yes, thats true. All makes sense now :)

[sunnyjones003]

thats my problem i dont know what to put in the tank

[Fishguy2727]

What have you had before?
What do you like? (cichlids, goldfish, community, etc.)

I like my 75. It has a school of 6 spotted silver dollars, a tiretrack eel, a fire eel, gold nugget pleco, two Synodontis eupterus, ornate bichir, and I will be adding two bristlenose plecos. It is not a high maintenance tank, or have any sensitive fish (except maybe the gold nugget, which I thought would be kind of sensitive, but seems to be pretty tough). It is active, but not with aggressive cichlids. And the silver dollars don't seem to be too jumpy.

I also like the peacocks, VERY colorful, active, and not near as aggressive as many other cichlids.

[sunnyjones003]

ive got a community 4 foot tank now, but im looking to go for bigger fish, like the size of gouranami maybe but my knowlage isnt up to scratch yet. i would like to keep eels this time tho

[Fishguy2727]

Sounds like my 75. The spotted silver dollars should hit about 5", so they are a manageable medium size fish. The tiretrack eel is awesome, gorges on the NLS and is growing pretty well. The fire eel is settling in still, hopefully the tiretrack will let him grab a territory. There would be other fish that could go in, but honestly I would just have a larger school of the silver dollars if I had the space. Once the ornate bichir grows, he will be another mildly active medium (and then large) fish in the tank. And I will probably add at least one or two more bichirs as I find good ones. I just got a free albino bichir from the manager at my work, but for now he is in with the peacocks since he would eat the ornate bichir.