Just killed all the tetras...

[Greg Menke]

In my seemingly never-ending quest to find filter media that actually filters I tried a cotton shirt stuffed into the cannister, thinking that "fuzzy" media might help catch particulates that smooth stuff like poly fill doesn't. Unfortunately I made the newbie mistake of not washing it first- the trace quantities of detergent left in it really wrecked things.

I guess it stripped the slime off everything, little air bubbles formed all over the fish and they were all really distressed, barely moving. All that weren't hiding were breathing up on the water's surface. I did massive water changes over the next few hours, probably on the order of 200%. That got rid of the detergent foam traces floating around on the surface... and then I left the tank alone. Next day 20+ tetras & raspboras were dead- all of them- but the platys survived, as did the 2 foxes and the pleco. The shrimp didn't appear bothered in the least and as I pulled the poor little fish bodies out it was evident they had enjoyed a number of snacks; abdomens cleaned out, etc.

I feel pretty bad, let the fish down with my newbie mistake. We'll restock with rummy noses and some cardinals I guess, will wait a while for the tank to settle down though.

Regards,

Greg

[Rue]

...t-shirt is too dense...all you'll do is restrict flow...

...if it's 100% cotton, I also think it will start to rot and add to the toxins in the tank...plus, who knows what it's been treated with that may leach into the tank...

[rollie]

...t-shirt is too dense...all you'll do is restrict flow...

...if it's 100% cotton, I also think it will start to rot and add to the toxins in the tank...plus, who knows what it's been treated with that may leach into the tank...

i agree. why used a cotton shirt. lol, is cotton shirts cheaper than filter media. lol, not where i live.

plus i think i would take all out of that tank, and begin over. then clean all good, and re set it up.

[Greg Menke]

I see no need to dump the tank, 10 or so creatures are alive, all the plants are fine, etc. I will continue 20% changes every day for a week or so, any detergent & trace stuff that leached in is down to pretty low concentrations now and will get lots lower quickly. I should think the detergent did some cleaning for me... I haven't seen any snails recently.

But I doubt very much that a shirt would rot in a month or so- I'm with you on the bleaches, dyes, etc that are probably in it though. It was a bad idea for sure. FWIW, the shirt did not impede the flow any more than a dense pack of poly fill, but the fish started having trouble before I could observe its filtering ability. The best filter so far as been a 1-5 micron whole house filter plumbed into the cannister output, though it seemed to act more in the a 20+ micron range. The .5-1 micron filter cartridge impeded flow too much and needs a real pump. What I would really like to find is filter media that has some effect at 20 microns or below- several types of poly fill have had no perceptible effect on small stuff at a variety of packing densities.

My experimenting with shirts is done, I will probably test out open cell foams and felts- with due attention to washing & specification.

Greg

[Kuli_Loach]

Try you a biowheel, they are pretty good. Sorry to hear about you losing your fish, won't know until you try.

[Nick_Pavlovski]

I use pieces of sheepswool in mine. Works fine.

[zackish]

I would also definitely be adding some stress coat to the tank.

[Wallyfish]

Speaking of filter media, I was thinking about buying a large bag of polyester pillow stuffing as a cheaper substitute for my canister filtering. Is that safe or will I kill the fish?

[rollie]

Speaking of filter media, I was thinking about buying a large bag of polyester pillow stuffing as a cheaper substitute for my canister filtering. Is that safe or will I kill the fish?

it will work, good. it the same thing as you buy in the pet shop. but in the pet shop, they want more money.lol

but make sure it 100% polyester. if there any things elec added to it, do not used, if you vaules your fish.

i know of different pet shop, that buy it, this way. then they do it up in smaller bags and sell it.

i used mostly corner filter, that need a air pumps. and this is what i used with no problem.

about 10 years ago ,a man here in nova scotia wrote a book, on all the stuff , laying around the house, that you could used in the fish tank.

but just be for he could get it publish. he got kill in the car accident.

[Greg Menke]

I found the poly fill stuff didn't do much, I guess the threads are smooth enough that they don't snag much. I tried a few different types packed at a few different tightnesses, none of them would even pull out visible particles much less green water. Maybe when the eventually start loading up they might work better, but a couple weeks of untouched operation didn't help in my case, though I did see some trapped stuff in the very bottom of the poly fill when I swapped in the shirt.

I found some sheets of felt at McMaster-Carr that are specified for chemical resistance & filtering, they say 5, 25 and 50 microns, so I bought a few and will try them. I also got some open cell foam, we'll see how that works.

But I'll give them a nice long rinse first.

Greg

[RobbieG]

What are you trying to filter out?

[gm72]

Well that's kind of my question. Why are you intent on finding an alternative? Just use filter media, its not that difficult. If you are still having mechanical filtration problems add a sponge prefilter to the canister.

[Lady Hobbs]

Well Greg, looks like you learned the hard way. Sorry about your fish. We are told from day one to not use anything in our tank that was in soap. Now you know why.

[Greg Menke]

I'd like to be able to filter out green water- neither the "official" ehiem media (coarse or fine) or various loads of poly fill stuffed in the can will do it- they are all too coarse by a quite a bit. Basically the mechanical stage is only good for stuff like flecks of matter; ie bits of leaf or long strands of algae.

The "1-5" micrometer whole house cartridge will take out green water if flocculant is added, and will not otherwise. I am simply looking for media that will get down to on the order of 20 micrometers so I don't need the whole-house filter can in the aquarium base along with the canister.

I am intent on finding functional media because I paid a bloody fortune for this ehiem unit and it does no better at mechanical filtering than a $50 Aquaclear hang-on. I'm all impressed by the snazzy hoses and neato plastic can & everything, the pump is quiet and moves an adequate amount of water- but the filtering media sucks. If its such a good piece of equipment why should I have to buy a water polishing system as well- its all just filtering.

Greg

[Lady Hobbs]

Speaking of filter media, I was thinking about buying a large bag of polyester pillow stuffing as a cheaper substitute for my canister filtering. Is that safe or will I kill the fish?

Wally, it's all I ever use. I buy pillows on sale at WalMart for around 2.50 and get a ton of filter media. Even use the bag it comes in for unused gravel or whatever.

[Algenco]

I'd like to be able to filter out green water- neither the "official" ehiem media (coarse or fine) or various loads of poly fill stuffed in the can will do it- they are all too coarse by a quite a bit. Basically the mechanical stage is only good for stuff like flecks of matter; ie bits of leaf or long strands of algae.

The "1-5" micrometer whole house cartridge will take out green water if flocculant is added, and will not otherwise. I am simply looking for media that will get down to on the order of 20 micrometers so I don't need the whole-house filter can in the aquarium base along with the canister.

I am intent on finding functional media because I paid a bloody fortune for this ehiem unit and it does no better at mechanical filtering than a $50 Aquaclear hang-on. I'm all impressed by the snazzy hoses and neato plastic can & everything, the pump is quiet and moves an adequate amount of water- but the filtering media sucks. If its such a good piece of equipment why should I have to buy a water polishing system as well- its all just filtering.

Greg

The only thing that will safely do that in an aquarium is a Diatom filter

[dev]

Filtering over carbon should do the trick. (Yes, carbon may be used as a particle filter)
No idea how long it will be effective, though.

[Drumachine09]

The only thing that will safely do that in an aquarium is a Diatom filter



A UV styerlizer (i butchered that one) will clear up water as well.

[dev]

Yes, I've been pondering what was meant by "green water". If it is simply suspended algae, you can kill them in a number of ways - no need to filter them out.

UV-light is one way, oxydising them is another, doing a traditional blackout is a third

[gm72]

I'd like to be able to filter out green water- neither the "official" ehiem media (coarse or fine) or various loads of poly fill stuffed in the can will do it- they are all too coarse by a quite a bit. Basically the mechanical stage is only good for stuff like flecks of matter; ie bits of leaf or long strands of algae.

The "1-5" micrometer whole house cartridge will take out green water if flocculant is added, and will not otherwise. I am simply looking for media that will get down to on the order of 20 micrometers so I don't need the whole-house filter can in the aquarium base along with the canister.

I am intent on finding functional media because I paid a bloody fortune for this ehiem unit and it does no better at mechanical filtering than a $50 Aquaclear hang-on. I'm all impressed by the snazzy hoses and neato plastic can & everything, the pump is quiet and moves an adequate amount of water- but the filtering media sucks. If its such a good piece of equipment why should I have to buy a water polishing system as well- its all just filtering.

Greg

If you bought an Eheim canister for strictly mechanical purposes it was a purchase ill-advised. The canister is significant improvement over a HOB in terms of bio-filtration. To say "the filtering media sucks" is just wrong. Period. I use Eheim canister filters on all of my larger tanks and have zero problems. Many other people here also use them with zero problems.

If you have green water you need to determine what is causing it, get rid of the root cause, and then you won't have to worry about it. You shouldn't need filtration as you are suggesting if the tank conditions are well-controlled.

So, let's try to figure out why you have green water to begin with, fix it, and be done with the issue at hand.

Are your water parameters stable? Does the tank get a lot of light?

[Greg Menke]

I have no problem with the bio filter aspect of the unit, however if its ineffective at mechanical filtration it'd be nice if that was clear in the advertising and reviews. Why does ehiem sell "fine" and "coarse" sponges, if the unit is known to be ineffective at mechanical filtration?

I'd also like to know why diatoms are the only "safe" way to clear green water- is there some specific reason that filtering them out by some other mechanism is risky?

The green water isn't a problem at present but it sure was for about a month, it was the reason I bought the ehiem in the first place- they are so often raved about and my Aquaclear 70 wasn't doing it. The problem stemmed from too much light, environmental adjustments did begin mitigating it until I fell upon the whole-house filter which cleaned it up in 5 minutes. It seems to me if there is a pretense towards cannisters being able to act as mechanical filters then there should be ratings and tests accordingly rather than claims that are at best circumstantial. But you're right, I'll revise my statement, "Eheim canister filter media sucks for mechanical filtration- it works no better than any other filter that employs sponges- but it does provide excellent bio filtering."

Yet I think this situation is absurd, a $150 filter that has no testable ratings for the smallest particles it will remove? I can buy a filter at Home Depot for $60 that specifies its effectiveness. Hence my search for media that works.

If the green water comes back, I want the filter to be in a position to be effective. I tried the chemical remedies and nearly killed off the shrimp, so no more of that for me. Given the amount of BS in the aquarium products industry I am certainly going to hesitate a while to drop $200 on a UV system or some diatom filter from the same people who didn't tell me their systems can't do effective mechanical filtration when finding the right $5 media might filter out the algae so it never even develops.

No doubt that in tanks that don't suffer from green water there is little need for effective mechanical filtration, but I am trying to find media that is effective. I have no problem putting a real pump in through a tested filter that runs 20mins a day to polish, but after this ehiem experience I'm not going to buy aquarium products to do it.

I ordered some felt rated for chemical resistance and filter capability from McMaster-Carr, we'll see how well it works and how it impedes the water flow.

Greg

[Drumachine09]

If you are concerned about green water, just piggy back a UV sterlizer onto your intake/exhaust (dont know if it matters, but prolly exhaust) hose on the canister filter.

[RobbieG]

NO filter media of any kind is going to do what you want.

[gm72]

Greg: "I have no problem with the bio filter aspect of the unit, however if its ineffective at mechanical filtration it'd be nice if that was clear in the advertising and reviews. Why does ehiem sell "fine" and "coarse" sponges, if the unit is known to be ineffective at mechanical filtration?"

You are still wrong. The units are not inefficient at mechanical filtration, and that is why you don't see it being made "clear in the advertising and reviews." Because it is false. Where are you getting this information, just from your own experience? I'll state this again, many of us use Eheim canisters and have no problems with mechanical filtration.

How do you have it setup in your tank? Maybe there is a more efficient way you can set it up to make sure the filter is catching everything? For example, the filter won't likely catch a whole lot if the tank is long and both the intake and output are located on the same side of the tank.

[Greg Menke]

What I'm saying is that the official ehiem sponges and various poly fill packs did not remove green water at any of several flocculant doses. What did remove the green water (in approx 5-10 minutes) was a whole-house filter cart put in line after the ehiem unit and a small flocculant dose. Without the flocculant, the filter did not catch the algae. So there is an example of a filter you can buy at Home Depot that does the job, and it also demonstrates there is plenty of circulation. The only issue there is the ehiem's pump isn't strong enough to push water through at high enough rates; once the filter loads up the pumps output drops off quickly, and it can't push more than a trickle through a .5-1 filter cartridge. It really is a relatively weak pump- nice and quiet though.

The ehiem mechanical filtration, like the other sponge filters IS ineffective at small particle sizes. If it were effective, it would remove flocculated green water. Thus my assertion that it sucks for mechanical filtration. Take any Ehiem you please, pack it with poly fill or ehiem sponges and put it on a green water tank. Does it remove the algae. If no, then it is ineffective. Now if there was some kind of specification (by Ehiem, or at least broadly in the aquarium community) that all sponge based filters are good only to, say, 100 microns and are ineffective with smaller particles and green water then I'd be fine- but this is really all about media, not the cannister. I'd have the same trouble with any of them except maybe for the pleated paper Magnums. Probably should have bought one of those instead...

RobbieG, you assert that there is no media on earth that will filter out green water when placed in an ehiem? I assume you have some testing data to prove that, if so, please give me a link, it will save me a lot of time testing. Now if you meant no media available in the aquarium supply industry, I'd probably agree. Thats why I'm looking in the industrial supply catalogs, lots of filtering media with specified effectivenesses there, just cut to fit.

Greg

[gm72]

Solve your green water problem and you would strongly disagree with yourself that you have a "weak pump" and that the Eheims are inefficient mechanical filters. You are right though, you will have to go with some kind of industrial or finer grade filter to get rid of green water, but why you are unable to get rid of the green water in the first place really needs to be the question. Honestly, it is kind of like saying "well all of my fish keep dying so I'll just keep adding more fish." Fix the core problem.

[rollie]

untill you tell us what the core problem is, i do not think that any of us can help you. so with that said, what is the core problem???

i had used them types of filter units before, and they work great.

it is possible you got a bad one.

[RobbieG]

Yes Greg I do mean no filter media available to the aquarium industry. There are plent of material that can do it - they are not used for a reason.

Any media that is that fine is going to force all of the water through the overflow and none of it will get filtered at all.

If you find a way to force it through the media it will either destroy the pump or cause it to blow water all over your house.

You can't have an in that is 300 or so gallons an hour and an out that is a few gallons an hour.

A secondary device (like a diatom filter) can perform this function because it does not have to provide real filtration to the tank.

Take two empty soda bottles - fill them with water - cap them - cut a 1/2 inch hole in one an punch a buch of hole in the other with a pin - flip them over and uncap them - blow as hard as you can in the one with the pinholes -no matter how hard you try the water is going to come out of the one with the big hole faster.

[gm72]

Good responses, all. Greg, the Eheims aren't advertised to filter something as fine as free floating algae. You don't see that in the reviews because IT IS NOT DESIGNED for that function. Complaints such as you are stating would be like me complaining that my car doesn't keep my lawn so well mowed.

So, for the last time--let's fix your core problem and stop messing around with this. You have a problem in your tank.

[Drumachine09]

Well put GM.


Ill say it again. If you want to get rid of green algae, quit trying to throw this and that into your filter. GET A UV STERLIZER. It is proven to work.

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

[Greg Menke]

OK, I'll but the idea that cannister filters are no good at mechanical filtration and some other measure is necessary to handle things as small as flocculated algae.

Let me repeat for the (4th?) time;

There is no current problem to be solved. The green water is gone, but I spent a month trying working it out until a whole-house filter took care of it.

And again;

I am trying to find media that will work in the Ehiem for at least flocculated algae. I already discovered that a whole-house filter will do this, but the Ehiem pump doesn't perform especially well pumping through it. What I would like to find is some media that can be put in bulk into the cannister that works about as well as the whole-house unit, but take advantage of the volume in inside the cannister so the pump doesn't load down as much.

And I don't see any means by which the Ehiem can "blow water" over anything. A small boat bilge pump more water through a greater head than the Ehiem does- and there is no bypass either. Load down the pump and it just pumps less, I don't see the issue. Obviously if the flow gets too low the pump can overheat, the desire is to find media that doesn't reduce flow that much.

If the Ehiem pump isn't able to handle the denser media or it packs off too quickly, then a .5 micron filter and a real pump on a low duty cycle to polish seems a reasonable solution- but I see no need for a UV unit to solve a filtration problem (which at present has not recurred).

I'm not "throwing" things at anything, I am looking for media that is effective on at least flocculated algae. People keep claiming that this is impossible but I don't buy it- for one thing nobody has presented data yet.

Greg

[Drumachine09]

Well, if you knew much about bilge pumps, you will know then that they run hot, very easily. I made a hom made filter for a livewell for goldfish when fishing. The pump heated the water to about 90-95 degrees.



Once again, i will tell you. Quit looking for a media that will take out the aglae. If it becomes a problem, GET A UV STERLYIZER.

[dev]

What I would like to find is some media that can be put in bulk into the cannister that works about as well as the whole-house unit, but take advantage of the volume in inside the cannister so the pump doesn't load down as much.


I told you already. Filtering through carbon will do this for you. It will trap a percentage of the particles with every pass of the water.

Carbon with microtubing is more effective, but any activated carbon for aquarium use will do.

[rollie]

you say your whole house unit will do it.

so then why are you still looking for something.

buy another whole house unit and used that to filter your tank.

then you will have no more problem.lol

[gm72]

I quit on this thread. Greg, if there is no problem to be solved then why in the you-know-what are we even wasting time on this?

None of us have free-floating algae because our tanks are healthy. I still can't even figure out if you have it or not? You are saying you don't have green water but yet you continue to search for filter media that can take care of it. The Eheim filter heads are not designed to filter through such a relatively dense material as you are describing. Read that again. They are NOT DESIGNED for it. Primarily because if your tank is healthy it is not needed.

You have received multiple suggestions that are valid alternatives to your search. And yet here we still are. I'm all done with this, because we aren't getting anywhere.

[Greg Menke]

Well I'm certainly done too, this exchange has been suprisingly unproductive. Next time I have green water I'll pass on the media I've found to be effective in cannister filters along with whatever dosage of flocculant is required to make it so. Healthy tanks are great, I am speaking to contingencies when things happen- my assumption is that green water recurs- do I have a procedure to remove it handy or not...

Gregm