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dev
07-03-2007, 06:37 PM
Update: New pictures in post #2 (07-07-2007)

I said I came here for new impulses, so it is only fair that I give you some of mine in return :)

This is my latest project, a triangular 50 galon south-american community. Or it will be when I'm done.

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The tank after slightly replanting it 07.07.2007. You will find more images attached below

What I mean by a South-American community tank is that I want a variety of plants and fish from South-America, without trying to imitate a very specific biotope like amazonas. Sort of a piece of a river that could have happened, but never did.

I cant seem to figure out where I put the charger for my camera, so the pictures from today have been taken with a camcorder. Well, the attached photos should give a general impression until I can get some better ones.

Livestock

4 x Apistogramma cacatuoides (Cockatoo cichlid)
6 x Corydoras aeneus (Albino bronze coridoras)
10 x Hemigrammus erythrozonus (Glowlight tetra)
2 x Mikrogeophagus ramirezi (Ram cichlid)
2 x Pterophyllum scalare (Freshwater angelfish)
4 x Ancistrus sp. (Bushymouth catfish)

Temporary residents:

1 x Botia almorhae (Yoyo-loach)
This guy came with a group to combat snails, and simply refused to leave with the others.

6 x Crossocheilus siamensis (Siamese algae-eater)
These are here to handle the unwanted algae growth

Technical

The tank itself is a triangular Juwel Trigon 190 with a curved frontglass and a closed top with built in lights. It is fairly tall for it's size, 24 inches, enough to require extra consideration on the lighting. The kit comes with a 300w heater and an internal filter with very decent filtering capacity, processing 160 gallon per hour. With the list price being just a little short of $1,000 it may seem a little steep, even for a German tank, when you consider the small size, but you pay a lot extra for the curved glass. All in all, it is a kit I can reccomend.

I'm usually very happy with the included filters from Juwel, but in this case I felt the circulation was on the low side, probably due to the triangular form of the tank. So even though the water was good, I decided to add a Fluval 303 canister filter I had sitting in my basement. This one has very good filtering capacity, and with good filter media it is said to handle tanks up to 90 gallons.

The tank came with 2 x 18w T-8 tubes, which is clearly not enough for a fully planted tank of this size, especially not with those extra inches on the height. I added reflectors for for the T8 tubes, and built in an additional 2 x 24w T-5 tubes using the Arcadia IP64 kit and customized T-5 reflectors. This adds up to a nice 110w total light (standard T8 watts).

24w Gieseman Midday (6000K) (back)
18w Juwel Daylite (6500K)
18w Juwel Warmwhite (4200K)
24w Gieseman Aquablue+ (11.000K) (front)

I do get a little algae growth in the front of the tank with my current configuration, and will be more than happy to hear your thoughts on a better combination of tubes.

For CO2 I use two Nutrafin Natural CO2 kits, but of I of course make the contents myself. After all, it's only baking soda, yeast and sugar. No need to pay $$ for the nice Nutrafin packaging.

Plants

Right now the plants are a mix of fast growing and slow growing species from south-america, asia and africa. They have also grown enough to be shifted around again, cut and replanted. As you can see on the pictures it is starting to look like a jungle in the center, where the larger species have grown into eachother.

As the tank matures (and I get my hands on suitable plants) the plan is to replace the asian and african plants with only south-american ones.

Here is the current stock (ones in italic are from africa or asia)

Bacopa australis
Echinodorus martii
Heteranthera zosterifolia
Shinnersia rivularis "Weiss-Grün"

Anubias barteri "nana"
Anubias barteri "barteri"
Anubias barteri "angustifolia"
Hygrophila polysperma
Rotala rotundifolia

Substrate and decorations

On the fishless picture the top substrate is Blästersilikat, a type of sand from Rådasand in Sweden. These are well known for their high quality sand and gravel for aquariums. Unfortunately this particular sand contains a significant amount aluminium and is not intended for aquariums. Very sad to let it go, it looked great.

I now have a fine grained gravel from Akvastabil in Germany instead. This dark gravel is .5-1.5mm and branded Haley. My corydoras would defnately prefer sand, so the plan is to replace the substrate again at some point. I've also pondered dividing the tank somehow, build it up a bit in the back, and only have sand in the front.

Under the thick layer of Akvastabil Hayley I have a much courser gravel from the same company, known as Mercury. This is for the benefit of the plants, and it stays out of sight for the most part.

For decorations I have so far only used a few roots to keep the catfish happy, and a couple of rocks. I don't know the english name of the type of rock, so if anyone is able to identify the big rock in the front I would be glad to hear of it.

The background is the common plastic poster type.

Future plans include one or more large roots that sort of hangs down into the tank, like on a river bank - and either a fabricated or custom made structured background (like Back to Nature). I've been a little uncertain how to do this because of the triangular shape, so I decided to start the tank without it. Like the change of substrate this is a fairly big operation, hopefully I get to do both at once this fall.


Water chemistry

The tank has been going for 10 months now, and is quite stable.

My tap water is of excellent quality but is very soft. By adding a small amount of hydrogenbicarbonate (KH+) and a 75% calcium / 25% magnesium mixture (GH+) I get the following values when CO2 is applied.

KH: 4 dH
pH: 7,0
GH: 3 dH
CO2: 12-19 ppm (calculated)

I use the Hanna pHep and the Trans Instruments Eco-Pal for measuring pH. CO2 is calculated from pH and KH. The standard CO2 tests available here makes very little sense, and the labarotory quality stuff is just way too expensive. For everything else I use test kits from JBL.

I try to keep the phosphates <1 ppm but sometimes it will get a little out of control, and add to the algae growth in the front.

Recently I've had trouble with too low nitrate levels, and have added a little to keep the level above 5 ppm.

I've never seen any ammonia or nitrates in this tank, not even while the nitrogen bacteria were establishing in the filter. (On AC commonly referred to as cycling the tank) On a side note the tank was kickstarted with some active filter media from another tank as soon as the temperature and pH appeared to be stable. Plants were added after a few hours, and the first fish (10 x glowlight tetra) after 3 days. While this method works very well for me, I reccomend sticking to the book until you know exactly what you are doing.

Fertilizers

With every water change I add

* 2.5 ml Tropica Master Grow from Tropica in Denmark. This product has recently been renamed to Tropica AquaCare, but I have some of the old stuff left.

* 1 ml Credo Liquid Iron (Fe) keeping the Fe level at 0.2 ppm. My tap water does not contain enough iron to keep the plants happy.

* PMDD as needed. While the TMG is well suited for my use I will sometimes add single components when required. Recently I have had to add a little CaNO3 to keep the minimum level of 5 ppm. I find that I get better results with CaNO3 in our soft water than the more commonly used KNO3.


Water Changes

I change about 30% of the water once a week, or two times a week when I think it's a good idea. My tap water is of excellent quality so I use a 2-way hose (JBL in & out), and fill cold water directly from the tap. I add no salt, nor any water treatment products other than KH+ and GH+ mentioned under water chemistry.

Since this is a planted tank I usually only suck up a little dirt laying on top of the gravel at certain spots in the tank. I have an Eheim automatic gravel cleaner, if I should decide to vacuum more thouroughly.

Fertilizers, carbonates and GH+ are mixed with water in a seperate container and poured slowly into the water stream when filling water.

dev
07-03-2007, 06:38 PM
07-07-2007

I found the charger for my camera, and took some pictures after slightly replanting the tank.

Still having a little trouble getting good pictures of the entire tank. My poor little casio doesn't have a lot of manual controls, and the curved front is confusing the automatics. Getting good aquarium pictures with this one is a little skill and a lot of luck. I'll get a Canon EOS 350 in September that should tilt this towards more skill and less luck. Can't wait :)

dev
07-03-2007, 06:40 PM
*reserved for future content*

Drumachine09
07-03-2007, 06:48 PM
Im digging that substrate. What is it?

Rue
07-03-2007, 07:00 PM
I love the way corner tanks look...:luxlove:

dev
07-03-2007, 07:02 PM
Im digging that substrate. What is it?

Actually I had to change the first substrate which you see on the fishless picture. This Swedish Rådasand Blästersilikat contained too much aluminimum and had to go.

The other pictures show a very fine gravel from Akvastabil called Haley.

genitor
07-03-2007, 07:58 PM
Looking good!!!

gm72
07-03-2007, 08:05 PM
I like it a lot, nicely done.

dev
07-03-2007, 09:29 PM
Thanks for the feedback so far, guys.

I've added the plants and decorations section and polished the others a little. Think thats it for tonight, i'll get to work on the maintenance and water chemistry part tomorrow.

Hopefully I'll find the charger for my camera so I can get some real pictures after I replant the tank. While the DV camcorder has a great CCD, the optics are really not built for high resolution still images, and there is no manual control. I guess it didnt help that there was a lot of light coming through the window to the right of the tank :s

Rue
07-03-2007, 09:38 PM
Watch the light from that window...it'll be a source of increased algae at least on that side of the tank...

Where do you get your background from? That's what I'd like for my tanks...can't find anything similar locally.

What's your 2nd language? German?

Incredulous_Ed
07-03-2007, 09:42 PM
It looks awesome dev. And your English is pretty good.

Bill Brasky
07-03-2007, 11:48 PM
nice tank! I could have used a corner tank for my room but cost required a standard one :(

SkarloeysMom
07-04-2007, 12:00 AM
What a beautiful set up! I love the curved glass corner tank.

tropfish
07-04-2007, 12:18 AM
yea those tanks are REALLY nice. I love your tank its really natural looking.

zackish
07-04-2007, 01:48 AM
That is a very, very nice tank. I would submit that for Tank of the Month for July.

NWMountainTroll
07-04-2007, 03:18 AM
TOTM. Enter that.

hungryhound
07-04-2007, 03:55 PM
The tank looks like it's really coming along and it will be exciting to see the "finished" product (when is a tank ever truly finished?)

I see that you're running CO2 and that should greatly help your plant growth. Are you also dosing fertilizers? Adding some small amounts of nitrogen, potassium and phosphorous as well as a good trace element mixture should improve your plant growth. With only 100w over a 50g tank, you are on the threshold of going either way, but it's somethign to think about. Of course since you are across the pond I do not know of a source for cheap agricultural grade ferts.

Here are the two people I know in the US:
[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]
[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

Another good resource on dosing is:
[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

Hope this helps and good luck!

dev
07-04-2007, 04:05 PM
The tank looks like it's really coming along and it will be exciting to see the "finished" product (when is a tank ever truly finished?)

Thanks, and I expect never. At least i'm still doing lots of changes to the oldest tank I still have.

I see that you're running CO2 and that should greatly help your plant growth. Are you also dosing fertilizers? Adding some small amounts of nitrogen, potassium and phosphorous as well as a good trace element mixture should improve your plant growth. With only 100w over a 50g tank, you are on the threshold of going either way, but it's somethign to think about. Of course since you are across the pond I do not know of a source for cheap agricultural grade ferts.


I'll be adding this information to the maintenance section later today, but in the meantime I'll let you know that I use a combination of Tropica Master Grow, Credo Liquid Iron and PMDD. Recently I have had to add a little CaNO3, but the phosphates are high enough on their own.

About the amount of light I usually find that anything between 0.5 - 1.0 watts per liter gives good results. I'm a bit worried about the tank being so tall though, so I might consider replacing the stock T-8 fixture with T-5, boosting the light to 150 watts (T-8 watts, 96 actual T-5 watts)


Here are the two people I know in the US:
[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]
[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

Another good resource on dosing is:
[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]


While I have an excellent PMDD supplier nearby I'll have a look at those, thanks!

dev
07-04-2007, 05:40 PM
I have now added the sections for water quality, fertilizers and water changes.

Lady Hobbs
07-04-2007, 06:49 PM
Your tank is lovely. The substract looks power blue which appears to pick up some blue in the rock unless it's the way the lighting is giving off color. It's very tastefully decorated and lovely.

dev
07-04-2007, 08:35 PM
Your tank is lovely. The substract looks power blue which appears to pick up some blue in the rock unless it's the way the lighting is giving off color. It's very tastefully decorated and lovely.

Thank you, I'm very glad you like it. The foremost light-tube is probably the source of the blue, though it is more apparent on the picture than it is to the eye.

The tube is a Gieseman Aquablue+ with 40% blue spectrum light and a colour temperature of 11.000 kelvin. Some think that blue light goes further through water and is good for the low foreground plants. This very cold light also adds a crisper contrasts to the tank.

This is a very intense saltwater tube and may be a bit much for in this tank, so I will probably try something different soon.

dev
07-04-2007, 10:11 PM
That is a very, very nice tank. I would submit that for Tank of the Month for July.

TOTM. Enter that.

Thank you. I'm glad you find the tank this promising, but there are other tanks in the competition that deserves the attention more.
Maybe best to wait, at least until it is replanted :)

dev
07-07-2007, 11:54 PM
I've replanted the tank a little today, and added new pictures (finally found the carger for my camera).

You'll find them up there in post #2

Also updated the main picture in post #1 this one is a little clearer, and I think the tank looks a little better without the large plants fighting for space in the middle.

Let me know what you think :)

Drumachine09
07-08-2007, 12:30 AM
How could you improve on perfection?

RobbieG
07-08-2007, 12:40 AM
Thats a beautiful tank Dev

How old is the Angel?

dev
07-08-2007, 12:49 AM
How could you improve on perfection?

hehe, thanks, but I just had to do something about that jungle in the middle :)

Thats a beautiful tank Dev

How old is the Angel?


Thank you, I'm glad you like it. As for the Angel your guess is a good as mine, we adopted him only a couple of months ago.

gm72
07-08-2007, 12:49 AM
How could you improve on perfection?

Got to agree on that. Dev, incredible tank there, FANTASTIC job.

Chrona
07-09-2007, 08:38 PM
Awesome tank! I like the nice combination of the rock background (which looks very lifelike in the pic) to plants. I would recommend some low ground cover for the front though, such as marsilea hirsuta or marsilea minuta (which I believe you can get from Tropica)

Just a few comments. What exactly do you mean by PMDD? Generally, it's a premixed ratio of nitrate, phosphates, and potassium, but I'm sort of confused with your wording. If you are having problems with too much phosphates, I would look into dosing KNO3 (Or CaNO3), K2PO4, and KSO4 seperately. PMDD is kind of an older technique that is not tailored well to some tanks (such as yours) , whereas the individual dosing can be adjusted to add additional nitrate, or less phosphates, etc.

Also, have you considered a pressurized CO2 system? While using DIY CO2 is nice and cheap, it's by no means stable, or long lasting. It's also not very adjustable after you mix up your reagents, and is highly susceptible to temperature. Pressurized is almost always the way to go for such large tanks, and judging by the amount of money spent already, I'd say you can afford it :)

Also, instead of constantly checking fert levels (all hobby level iron test kits are highly inaccurate btw), I would highly recommend using the EI method of dosing ferts, found here, as you are doing large weekly water changes anyways. The idea is to provide an abundance of nutrients for plants, while capping them at a certain level through weekly 50% water changes. It is used with great success by the majority of theplantedtank.net.

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

dev
07-09-2007, 10:00 PM
Awesome tank! I like the nice combination of the rock background (which looks very lifelike in the pic) to plants. I would recommend some low ground cover for the front though, such as marsilea hirsuta or marsilea minuta (which I believe you can get from Tropica)

Thanks! I've been considering some low plants for the front, but for this tank I've decided to try a terrace with sand in front of it. Should make the coridoras happier. Some Marsilea might be a good idea for another tank of mine though, where my Lilaeopsis brasiliensis isn't doing as well as I hoped it would.


Just a few comments. What exactly do you mean by PMDD?


In an attempt to keep my post a little tidier, I'll sum up all the PMDD related stuff here,.

We might be using the expression incorrectly as we're not using the original PMDD recipe. Around here PMDD just means that you add a premade mix of trace elements that has been tailored to your local water supply, while nitrate, phosphates and potassium are added independantly as needed (or when you think you know your tank well enough - at a fixed ratio, until something tells you to change it).

Excess trace elements are removed through large water changes, ranging from 30 to 50%.

Not at all unlike the method described in your link. Interesting reading btw, thanks.

Anyway, I've found that TMG works quite well for my tanks so I only add TMG and iron on a regular basis and CaNO3 as needed. There always seems to be enough phosphates, and TMG appears to contain enough potassium.

If you are having problems with too much phosphates, I would look into dosing KNO3 (Or CaNO3), K2PO4, and KSO4 seperately.

I have, and I am :)


Also, have you considered a pressurized CO2 system? While using DIY CO2 is nice and cheap, it's by no means stable, or long lasting. It's also not very adjustable after you mix up your reagents, and is highly susceptible to temperature. Pressurized is almost always the way to go for such large tanks, and judging by the amount of money spent already, I'd say you can afford it :)

If it was all up to me, I'd have pressurized systems with pH controllers for all of my tanks :)

While my DIY won't kill my fish, a cheap pressurized system can. So until my WAF allows me to budget some decent CO2 equipment, I'm good with what I have. It's a fairly small tank, the plants are fairly happy with it, and I can deal with the extra ten minutes work involved twice a week.

Been trying out Zac Carbo Plus in my 29 gallon for the past year. Works like a charm, except you really need to run every new carbon plate outside the tank for a day (or watch your SAE try to jump out of the tank), and while it is available at a nice price here, it is no cheaper than a pressurized system in the long run.

Also, instead of constantly checking fert levels (all hobby level iron test kits are highly inaccurate.

Yes they are. But with some experience you learn what to make of the readings. It's just a sanity check, if it's showing 0.2 or about, I know stuff haven't gotten out of hand.

Besides, I don't test all that often. The plants tell me when they're not getting enough iron. Too much iron will generally give a little hairy algea that goes away after a water change.

Thanks a lot for your input, I really appreciate you taking the time.

nanaglen2001
07-10-2007, 09:30 AM
Good job Dev, a fine looking tank you set up.

I like those corner tanks a lot, but alas, my arms are too short, at least for those big Trigons 390 or what those big things are called.

I am really looking foreward for pics of all those changes that will happen inevitably:hmm3grin2orange: