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pillairp
01-16-2011, 06:58 PM
i have always seen stores keeping bettas in small bowls ... can please someone tell why is it so and dont they need more water to breath .... i have heared from ppl u only need to change water once a week even if its in a small bowl...

Brhino
01-16-2011, 07:06 PM
Stores can do that because the fish won't be there very long before they're sold. If the fish had to stay in there long-term there would be lots of problems and premature deaths. Bettas need space, filtration, and water changes just like every other fish.

Xavier
01-16-2011, 07:18 PM
Bettas can breathe oxygen from the air as well as breathe oxygen in the water through their gills. When the oxygen in the water is depleted, they breathe oxygen from the air through an organ called a labyrinth.

As Brhino points out though, keeping the fish in these conditions isn't good. In nature they can survive short periods of time in puddles, hence why they have this duel breathing strategy, but they need clean water. Without a filter, the ammonia builds up and burns their skin. I recommend a minimum of a 5 gal tank for a betta, and a HOB filter of proper power. I use a diffuser to limit the amount of water current created by my filter, since bettas prefer still water.

Also, bowls don't have heaters. This is the biggest problem, because you need to keep the water above 23C (23C to 27C is ideal). Without a heater, a 5 gal tank's temperature can drop quickly if near a door or window in winter. Most people lower the temperature as they sleep (18C-21C, leaving the poor betta to freeze in the wee hours of the morning.

My betta is in a 15 gal tank with a filter, a heater and real plants. He spends all day swimming at the front of the tank and sleeps at night on an dwarf anubias plant near the surface. It is tied to a piece of driftwood.

kingkarter
01-16-2011, 07:53 PM
Bettas can breathe oxygen from the air as well as breathe oxygen in the water through their gills. When the oxygen in the water is depleted, they breathe oxygen from the air through an organ called a labyrinth.

As Brhino points out though, keeping the fish in these conditions isn't good. In nature they can survive short periods of time in puddles, hence why they have this duel breathing strategy, but they need clean water. Without a filter, the ammonia builds up and burns their skin. I recommend a minimum of a 5 gal tank for a betta, and a HOB filter of proper power. I use a diffuser to limit the amount of water current created by my filter, since bettas prefer still water.

Also, bowls don't have heaters. This is the biggest problem, because you need to keep the water above 23C (23C to 27C is ideal). Without a heater, a 5 gal tank's temperature can drop quickly if near a door or window in winter. Most people lower the temperature as they sleep (18C-21C, leaving the poor betta to freeze in the wee hours of the morning.

My betta is in a 15 gal tank with a filter, a heater and real plants. He spends all day swimming at the front of the tank and sleeps at night on an dwarf anubias plant near the surface. It is tied to a piece of driftwood.


i agree 100%

Gisela
01-16-2011, 11:47 PM
I also agree with Xavier. I have my Betta in a 6 gallon Fluval Edge with driftwood and real plants. He looks pretty happy.

Cyberra
01-17-2011, 01:18 AM
I wish I had the room to give all my bettas their own 5-gal tanks... Unfortunately, I don't. My largest tank is a 3-gallon, and Mid STILL isn't quite sure what to do with all that space. Water gets completely changed once a week for the larger tanks, twice a week for the smaller tanks. The one time I had a heater in I lost a fish, but I tend to turn the thermostat up at night instead of down, so my fish haven't really been bothered much. The fact that my room is a heat sink helps.

Michael Milligan
01-17-2011, 02:22 AM
perhaps putting your bowls on a heat mat that is used for plant?

http://gardensandnature.com/gardensandnaturemagazine/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/seedheatmat.jpg

Xavier
01-17-2011, 02:43 AM
I wish I had the room to give all my bettas their own 5-gal tanks... Unfortunately, I don't. My largest tank is a 3-gallon, and Mid STILL isn't quite sure what to do with all that space. Water gets completely changed once a week for the larger tanks, twice a week for the smaller tanks. The one time I had a heater in I lost a fish, but I tend to turn the thermostat up at night instead of down, so my fish haven't really been bothered much. The fact that my room is a heat sink helps.

My sister-in-law lives in Sydney, Canada. LOL!

If you put in a real plant or two, they will eat up the nitrates, making 100% water changes unnecessary, provided you have a cycled filter.

I keep my heater to 24-25C. During the day, it doesn't turn on, but it does at night. The tank is close to the window, so it needs a heater.

pillairp
01-17-2011, 03:29 AM
Thanks for all the help and advice... i stay in india and temp is not a issues here as most of the time we have 28 to 32 C..so most of the time the water temp is undercontrol

Cyberra
01-17-2011, 03:53 AM
My sister-in-law lives in Sydney, Canada. LOL!

If you put in a real plant or two, they will eat up the nitrates, making 100% water changes unnecessary, provided you have a cycled filter.

I keep my heater to 24-25C. During the day, it doesn't turn on, but it does at night. The tank is close to the window, so it needs a heater.

No heaters and no filters. My tanks are too small for filters. I'll stick with the water changes >> The three larger ones came with air pumps, but they create too much turbulence at the surface, so I don't even use them.

Oh, does she? No one I know, most likely

fishn00b
01-25-2011, 02:53 AM
Just cause a fish CAN live in a poor environment doesn't mean they SHOULD.

I have kept many different bettas and yes I'll admit once in college we kept one in a water pitcher filled with tap water and it lived for months with virtually no care. Now I have a 10 gallon filtered planted tank with just one betta and he's by far the happiest I have ever had.

IMO you really should not keep them in less than a 5 gallon

Cyberra
01-25-2011, 03:49 AM
Just cause a fish CAN live in a poor environment doesn't mean they SHOULD.

I have kept many different bettas and yes I'll admit once in college we kept one in a water pitcher filled with tap water and it lived for months with virtually no care. Now I have a 10 gallon filtered planted tank with just one betta and he's by far the happiest I have ever had.

IMO you really should not keep them in less than a 5 gallon
I'd keep them in larger tanks if I could, but I simply don't have the space. My bettas are the only company I have. I take good care of them

kingkarter
01-25-2011, 04:58 AM
I'd keep them in larger tanks if I could, but I simply don't have the space. My bettas are the only company I have. I take good care of them

2.5 tanks are the bare minimum for a betta tank. 3g tank's are ok for bettas. But like any othere fish the bigger the tank the better.

mikeDUDS
01-25-2011, 05:23 PM
[QUOTE=fishn00b]Just cause a fish CAN live in a poor environment doesn't mean they SHOULD.

Indeed, if I'm not mistaken betta's have the labyrinth organ because they native to rice paddies in Thailand. When the water has drained to nothing more than mud puddles bettas supplement their oxygen supply with atmospheric air. They were never meant to rely on the organ as their main source of oxygen. Sorry if someone hit on this already, I have not read through all the comments XD.

Cheers!

Duds

kingkarter
01-25-2011, 06:12 PM
[QUOTE=fishn00b]Just cause a fish CAN live in a poor environment doesn't mean they SHOULD.

Indeed, if I'm not mistaken betta's have the labyrinth organ because they native to rice paddies in Thailand. When the water has drained to nothing more than mud puddles bettas supplement their oxygen supply with atmospheric air. They were never meant to rely on the organ as their main source of oxygen. Sorry if someone hit on this already, I have not read through all the comments XD.

Cheers!

Duds

Yes thats true but they only live in small puddle for short periods of time.

mikeDUDS
01-25-2011, 06:25 PM
Indeed. Just thought I'd add a little more background highlighting why they are able to be kept in such small containers in stores and for shipping purposes. In no way did I mean to condone keeping a betta in anything less than around 5 gallons XD Hope I didn't give this impression !!!:hmm3grin2orange:

Duds

Cyberra
01-26-2011, 01:01 AM
2.5 tanks are the bare minimum for a betta tank. 3g tank's are ok for bettas. But like any othere fish the bigger the tank the better.
I'm planning on getting/making larger tanks (water cooler bottles) once I have the space. Right now, I don't.

Alasse
01-26-2011, 01:24 AM
I used to keep male breeders in 3litre jars, no heater no filter. 25% WC daily. Jars were sitting on a heat source though in winter. All jars had a live plant of some type in it. Lived long healthy lives.

I'm looking at getting a barracks built to hold multiple betta each section will be about the jar size, but it will have a communal heater/filter setup. I'll share once its arrived

kingkarter
01-26-2011, 04:41 AM
I used to keep male breeders in 3litre jars, no heater no filter. 25% WC daily. Jars were sitting on a heat source though in winter. All jars had a live plant of some type in it. Lived long healthy lives.

I'm looking at getting a barracks built to hold multiple betta each section will be about the jar size, but it will have a communal heater/filter setup. I'll share once its arrived

They may of lived acouple years but i can guarenty you they weren't happy. Look and it this way if some one kept you in a 6'x'6'x6' room with a bucket for i toilet and changed it each day and fed you 3 time's a day. Would yo be happy? NO.

Point made.

Alasse
01-26-2011, 04:58 AM
Point made?? Boy i think some have had some aggression tabs here today *LOL*

Actually they lived 4yrs & + and looked gorgeous, and considering they were not sitting in the corner pouting, then yes i will state they were happy. Changing water daily is by far more sanitary than putting them in a larger 5gal tank and expecting the filter to do the work and only changing weekly IMHO. I choose to do the work to keep them comfortable, no different than with all my fish.

kingkarter
01-26-2011, 05:24 AM
I keep mine in 55g and i do w/c each week some time's two 25% w/c each week. Jsut because a fish is swimming dosn't meen its happy. Would you keep a dwarf gourami in a jar? In the wild they only live in small puddles for short periods of time But most of the time there in larger systems or ponds.


Just cause a fish CAN live in a poor environment doesn't mean they SHOULD.

I have kept many different bettas and yes I'll admit once in college we kept one in a water pitcher filled with tap water and it lived for months with virtually no care. Now I have a 10 gallon filtered planted tank with just one betta and he's by far the happiest I have ever had.

IMO you really should not keep them in less than a 5 gallon

Alasse
01-26-2011, 05:34 AM
You keep 1 male only in a 55gal....well thats your choice.

I had 12 males and kept them happy in jars, in fact the 1 male i decided to move to a 20 was far less active, sat in a plant, never displayed, looked downright miserable to be honest, moved him back and he was back to his old self. So yes i am confident they were happy.

If you a person that doesnt have the time nor inclination to be strict on the daily water changes using jars, then yes a larger tank would be more suited.

We are not talking gourami, the discussion is on betta

Just because you choose not to do it doesnt mean its wrong.

Xavier
01-26-2011, 06:03 AM
It sounds like you no longer have the bettas, but if someone is keeping them in jars, I would be interested in seeing water tests performed over the course of a month. I'm not convinced that partial water changes would keep the aquarium as clean as a planted and filtered aquarium. I would also like to know if the bettas kept in jars make bubble nests.

As for being happy in jars, when I purchased my betta from the breeder, he explained that once the fish had reached a certain age, he had been kept in the jar. When I brought the betta home, it was very happy in the empty QT tank, which is bare. When I moved him to the planted tank with gravel and driftwood, he seemed confused and lazy for a few days.

Now, if I have to put him in the 5 gal QT tank (I've had to twice in the last month), he lays at the bottom of the tank in the corner and waits for feeding time.

In my opinion, he was content with the bare minimum, but once he got used to clean, oxygenated, filtered water and real plants, he hated the boring QT tank, and putting him in a 2L betta bowl for any period of time seems to make him very sluggish.

Best analogy is a dog born in a closet and raised in a closet. Sure he'll be content with the stagnant air and limited room... but happiness is getting to run outside in the fresh air.

Alasse
01-26-2011, 06:18 AM
I no longer have them thats correct. Havent kept them for many years now. But i will be again this year.....and yes they make bubble nests in the jars.

kingkarter
01-26-2011, 05:03 PM
You keep 1 male only in a 55gal....well thats your choice.

I had 12 males and kept them happy in jars, in fact the 1 male i decided to move to a 20 was far less active, sat in a plant, never displayed, looked downright miserable to be honest, moved him back and he was back to his old self. So yes i am confident they were happy.

If you a person that doesnt have the time nor inclination to be strict on the daily water changes using jars, then yes a larger tank would be more suited.

We are not talking gourami, the discussion is on betta

Just because you choose not to do it doesnt mean its wrong.


Any fish that you put in a new tank want be as active right away.

I know were not talking about gouramis but they can live in the same condtion a betta can and you would think its was crule to keep one in a jar. But when its a betta you would say it's ok.

Alasse
01-26-2011, 05:22 PM
Actually no i dont think its cruel to keep a dwarf gourami in a bowl or jar. You are putting words in my mouth. I wouldnt put any other gourami in a 3 litres jar as they get too large.

I'm part of a betta forum. 1 member (well probably a few actually) there is part of a Betta society. The member wrote a Betta care sheet. They have that 3 litres is acceptable to keep a single male, 10litres would be better, but that 3 is also ok.

I left that poor betta in that 20gal for a week, with no change, his behaviour was the same as when i first put him in. Miserable. Put him back in his jar, back to old self.

Sandz
01-26-2011, 08:29 PM
Kingkarter, this is starting to become a person attack here and you are misquoting Alasse.

We are here to learn and share, not fight. We have our personal opinions and beliefs.

kingkarter
01-26-2011, 08:38 PM
Sorry i just get realy annoyed when ppl keep betta in jars or bowls. Once i wrote that last thing i acually felt kind of bad for writeing it because it was rude.

Alasse
01-27-2011, 12:02 AM
If we cant debate an issue without nastiness i'm out of it...

I get annoyed when people dont read what i wrote and make up things i'm supposed to have said, and then to toss in slander when they really do not know me in any way.

Anyway. I've stated my piece on the issue
Have a nice day

CassieLEO
01-27-2011, 12:12 AM
You can very easily find used tanks for sale pretty cheap on craiglist.

Alasse
01-27-2011, 12:13 AM
Me? Australia doesnt have craiglist

Nor do i need more tanks, i have 16 now and fitting more in just aint happening. Not required for male betta anyway, i have the jars still, and as i stated i'll be looking into getting a betta barracks made sometime this year :)

Alasse
01-27-2011, 12:24 AM
A few quotes just for interest

Taken from the International Betta Congress page

Because of this ability, Bettas can be kept in small jars and aquaria. When keeping Bettas in smaller containers their water needs to be changed weekly to reduce and eliminate the wastes that build up. If you don't have an aquarium, a plastic or glass 1 gallon goldfish bowl will suffice as a container for a Betta. Those are fairly cheap, allow the Betta plenty of room to move around it, and are easy to clean. Even a 1/2 gal bowl is fine for most Bettas as long as the water changes are kept up with. Remember, male Bettas will fight with other Bettas and as such, must be kept separate.

Link to AusAqua Forum (Australian betta forum) care sheet (http://ausaqua.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=9290)

CassieLEO
01-27-2011, 12:28 AM
I was talking to Cyberra Alasse

CassieLEO
01-27-2011, 12:31 AM
Alasse why whenever there is discussion about overcrowding fish are you always the one having to defend yourself for overcrowding your fish over and over again? Are you seeing a trend yet?

kingkarter
01-27-2011, 12:46 AM
If we cant debate an issue without nastiness i'm out of it...

I get annoyed when people dont read what i wrote and make up things i'm supposed to have said, and then to toss in slander when they really do not know me in any way.

Anyway. I've stated my piece on the issue
Have a nice day

Realy. I just basicley apologized and this is what you say. Oh and for the recored i never said you said any thing you did not say.

Alasse
01-27-2011, 01:12 AM
Cassie....my fish arent at all overcrowded. I'm not defending i am politely debating an issue, and backing up my stand with statements from actual Betta societies etc.

Cyberra
01-27-2011, 01:17 AM
You can very easily find used tanks for sale pretty cheap on craiglist.
I'm Canadian. No Craigslist; we have Kijiji up here. And, for the hundredth time, I DO NOT HAVE ROOM FOR ANYTHING LARGER AT THE MOMENT. Eventually, I WILL be getting larger homes for my bettas. But right now, I simply can't. The fact that the house in which I am living is going to be sold is not helping matters.

fishn00b
01-27-2011, 02:52 AM
I just don't understand why you'd keep them in jars when you can get 2.5 - 5g tank, filter and heater for < 30 dollars total. I mean if you can't spring for the proper equipment just don't buy this fish. just saying

Cyberra
01-27-2011, 03:04 AM
I am just trying to make a point. I. Do. Not. Have. Room. Right. Now. I care for my bettas well... they're getting pretty spoiled. And they are the only company I have.

Alasse
01-27-2011, 03:06 AM
Because the jars/bowl/smaller tank is fully sufficent for their needs. Heaters are not always a requirement, depending on where you live. Filter is also not a requirement, providing you keep up on maintenance.

Irish2539
01-27-2011, 10:40 AM
Iv been reading through the posts and i think it's all been said in the first few posts..... People seem to be avoiding the facts. ill repeat it.

Personally i find it hard to believe sum1 cant get a 5gal container or tank.... It's quite small and would fit on any surface. I looking around my room which isn't all that big and i can see over 10 places i could put a 5gal tank. My cousin has a small aprtment and she has a little 5-7gal tank on a stool beside the sofa. Money shouldnt be an issue as they cost as much as a few pints in the pub.

They can survive in jars/ bowls... their is no debating that. Fish can adapt and survive in lots of conditions.... It doesnt mean their 'happy'! The whole point is to make your fish thrive.

Temperature: Unless you live in a tropical climate the temperature will fluctuate too much in a tiny tank... In cold water their metabolism slows and they wont be as active.... more prone to disease too. For them to thrive they should not be kept in cold water for long periods and that's a fact.

Never compare yourself with a betta breeder or a fish shop..... They may have hundreds and they sell them on, you purchased your betta as a pet and you should let it thrive like you would any other pet.

Another thing id like to point out. Companies use this betta in a bowl stuff to sell their products to beginners.... ask yourself... how many actually survive?
Even if you know how to keep ammonia down through constant water changes to make it 'survive' i don't think people should be backing the idea for this very reason.

Iv seen this debate so many times. goes in circles.... They CAN survive. But for it thrive it shouldnt live its life in unfiltered, unheated small jar/bowl (I like to repeat myself :hmm3grin2orange: )

This is why im against tiny tanks. Iv kept many betta's and they were very active a curious... here is my old 20gal setup. Iv seen videos of bettas in bowls and jars and one person admitted themselves all it does is sit there and wait for food.
lF8GPbYIvTI

MCHRKiller
01-27-2011, 10:50 AM
A divided 10G takes up no more space sitting around your house than 2 bowls/very small tanks. You can easily divide it and keep 3 males...each with their own appropriate filtered and heat controled space. They will be much happier healthier fish in the end. Bettas when given the chance to be a real fish...will be a real fish. I have a rescued slightly deformed betta in my 100G, it uses every aspect of the tank and is very active. This same fish lived out most of its life in a mason jar where it could hardly move and was in foul conditions more times than not. It is true that 2.5gallons is regarded as the minimum but honestly a 5G not any more expensive and it doesnt take up much more room. I agree 100% with Irish's post above...if you do not have the space, money or time to mess with a betta...it is very easy not to buy one. :22:

kingkarter
01-27-2011, 05:25 PM
I totaly agree with both you guy's

Cyberra
01-27-2011, 10:06 PM
*annoyed sigh* As no one seems to be getting that A) this is not a large room, B) most of the surfaces are already occupied or in very awkward places, and C) I will be MOVING soon into an even smaller space until we manage to get a new place, I simply give up. I'm tired of being preached at, and will not be responding to this thread anymore

JDA70
01-27-2011, 11:06 PM
I just started learning about the Betta Fish and this is just
my personal opinion and no one has to agree.

When you buy a fish like a Betta it's yours now and what
you do with it is your personal business.

Now When you go to actually buy one it's not yours but the
supplier should have the fish in optimal conditions.
Why? Because they will sell more. It's just common sense.

Honestly tho I think most people see them in little tiny clear plastic
containers with blue water and feel sorry for them. So they buy one.

I like Betta(s) but I never really had an interest in buying one until
I saw the deplorable conditions sellers keep them in.
I mean come on the containers I saw them in maybe held
8 to 12 Fl oz. That's disgusting. That's about the size of a mug of coffee.

I can't save them all but I will be getting at least one and try
and give it a peaceful home with more room, plants and heat.


:fish:

MCHRKiller
01-28-2011, 04:00 AM
*annoyed sigh* As no one seems to be getting that A) this is not a large room, B) most of the surfaces are already occupied or in very awkward places, and C) I will be MOVING soon into an even smaller space until we manage to get a new place, I simply give up. I'm tired of being preached at, and will not be responding to this thread anymore

Im the last person on the planet to condone preaching of anything. However it is my opinion(you know what they say of opinions) that if you cannot care for a fish the way it is ment to be cared for...it is best to rehome it. I once also lived in a small space with limited places for aquaria...and I will say where there is a will there is a way. A couple of 1G tanks will also take up more space with all the crap that goes along with them than 1 divided 10G ever would. Prioritize your items I am sure you will find something that means much less to you than the health and well being than your fish.

Irish2539
01-28-2011, 04:55 AM
Cyberaa.... My post was a response to the thread... 'Betta in a bowl'.
I would have said the same thing even if you had not posted anything.

Yeah moving sucks.... I'm moving myself and im selling all my fish because i don't have the space for them.

The thread is about 'should be betta's kept in bowls....' personal reasons why you can only keep them in little bowls doesn't answer the question.

Xavier
01-28-2011, 06:24 AM
On a side note, don't male bettas cost a fair amount of money? I've never seen a male betta under 30$... if someone buys 4-5 bettas to keep in jars, the cost of 1-2 betta would be enough to get a 10 gal and the cost of the 2-3 other male bettas could buy 6 female bettas. Lots of colour, loads of personality and happier than 5 lonely males in jars.

Then, if you do want a flashy male, you could get a 15-20gal, put the 6 females in there and then add the male.

CassieLEO
01-28-2011, 07:51 AM
Irish your betta is such a pretty boy!!!!!! :D Xavier, around the states, Bettas are around 3.00 to 5.00 for one that someone could buy at a "big box" pet store.
The whole thought about keeping them in little jar with no filtration or heater and putting them on a heating pad seems really odd, but not surprising unfortunately, considering the source the person who said they do that. It reminds me of some science experiment and makes me think that the fish are sitting there just like some sort of house decoration instead of a pet.

Alasse
01-28-2011, 08:18 AM
I do NOT see my fish as decorations. Again with character slander *sigh*

It is perfectly acceptable to myself, to many other fish keepers, also to many official organisations....Again just because you personally feel its not acceptable doesnt mean its wrong...We will just have to beg to differ on the situation

CassieLEO
01-28-2011, 08:40 AM
Its not slander if its the truth. And as far as I know, I can say whatever I want about how "I" feel about your fish keeping habits. Dont put it out there if you dont want people to comment on it. Straight forward.
Will it make you feel better if I said, Alasse you are the best fish keeper ever. ok? You must be perfect to be talking about getting that dark green water from your nitrate test from one of your tanks, and having your animals living in mason jars like a science experiment. Stop putting your fish keeping habits out there for people to read if you are going to cry about it every time someone says something against it.

Alasse
01-28-2011, 08:51 AM
Its your perceived truth :) Freedom of speech is not an open invitation to be rude to people...I dont expect people to be complimentry, but i dont believe you or others need to be rude either.

Cry about it? Huh...
I'm happy to debate an issue, but rudeness and snakiness i'm not happy with in any form. I can manage to post without directing personal insults at people, would be nice if others could do the same dont you think :)

CassieLEO
01-28-2011, 10:28 AM
I would love to know where it says I cant be rude to someone in the whole freedom of speech deal. LOL!! I dont think im being rude, as I know I can be even more MORE rude than your percieved idea of my rudeness. Ill be continuing to voice my opinion about your fishkeeping skills if I see you giving your usual incorrect advice to noobs.

Irish2539
01-28-2011, 10:58 AM
I'm sure thousands of betta's die from being kept in those conditions..... People buy it for their kids ect.. because it's marketed as a low maintenance fish that can be kept in a bowl.

Alasse and cyberra, debate it then..... The betta congress also says betta's should be kept in temps of 75+, Its impossible to keep a stable temp in a bowl without a heater if your not in a tropical climate. We know it can survive but do you truly believe they should be kept that way and people should be advertising the fact that its ok? I'm sure you keep your betta tank clean through lots of water changes but only the rare few do who keep betta's in those conditions.

A 5-10gal tank, a sponge filter and a heater..... Divide the 10gal and its the same as a few 3gal bowls. I could link a few pages from betta forums and fishkeeping forums that will say it's not ok to keep betta's in bowls.... I want your opinion, the fact the other fishkeepers and some association says it doesn't make it true....

I'm repeating myslef because you wont give me an answer.... Argue with me:hmm3grin2orange:.

Alasse
01-28-2011, 11:18 AM
My usual incorrect advice? There are only 2 instances you believe to be incorrect...just because my advice differ from yours, neither advice wrong, just different

I'm not here to argue with anyone *L* And why would i not answer?? You havent been at all snakey

Irish, i never stated that betta NEVER EVER need a heater, i actually wrote the need for a heater is dependant on where you live. (For me, the summer here is tropical and fine for no heat source, Winter a heat source is required of some type)
I also stated that if you are not commited to doing the necessary water changes on a smaller filterless tank that yes maybe you should go for a larger filtered one (i was happy to do the required waterchanges needed for them to have a healthy enviroment)

There are always links to both sides of a debate, no doubt about it. The whole thing boils down to choice and experience. It is my choice to keep my betta the way i choose, in my experience it worked. As it is anyone elses choice to keep your betta the way they choose, if it works for them and is not ouright inhumane (where the fish has absolutely no room to move, kept in dirty conditions etc)

My betta were kept clean, fed, and healthy. They were my breeders, 12 males, they were no good to me sick or dead, not to mention they were all named and meant a lot to me

Alasse
01-28-2011, 11:38 AM
One of my old 3litre jars, in pic betta is being held in this one while his jar is being cleaned and reset. Normally there is either gravel or sand (i prefer sand) and the plant is planted into the substrate for the betta to rest on

http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee514/BecLeeFotos/Fish%20Tanks/Various%20small%20tanks/Bettajar30thNov07.jpg

I am not ashamed to show it, the betta has plenty of room to move. It is by no means crammed in

Irish2539
01-28-2011, 12:53 PM
sry i have a terrible hangover so i aint typing straight....


I'm repeating myself because you wont give me an answer.....
Today 10:28 AM
I just realized i never asked you a question before so sry :ssmile:!

Your right.... its possible if you manage to keep it heated and do constant water changes. Only experienced fish keepers can really do this. Im pretty sure you cant even use heaters in 1gal bowls?

Wouldnt you agree that people shouldnt advertise the fact they do it on forum? If somebody posts a Vid of their heavily filtered overstocked tank it's usually locked because normally people who overstock their tank don't take good care of their fish. A beginner once showed me a Vid of a heavily stocked tank which was maintained by sum1 experienced after i told him the reason his fish were dying was because his tank was overstocked....

It's the same story with unfiltered, unheated bowls..... To many people think its fine and they don't keep a stable temp and they don't keep the ammonia down. A lot of people do it...... to many :scry:

Same thing goes for mixing species.... I asked about mixing a betta and a cichlid last week, of course i was told i shouldnt.... i realize now they were right to say that people any beginner reading that might think its ok and in most cases it will not work.

I think setups and mixing fish that only work through experience and normally would be a disaster for any beginner shouldnt be advertised on forum for fish care.

CassieLEO
01-28-2011, 02:50 PM
Oh boy, that little home for the betta looks nice and quaint im sure he is so happy sitting in there with the dying plant. The dying plant in the container adds that special touch of home. Thanks for sharing!!

Lab_Rat
01-28-2011, 04:35 PM
I think setups and mixing fish that only work through experience and normally would be a disaster for any beginner shouldnt be advertised on forum for fish care.
This I fully agree with, and reading through this thread, I think Irish sums it up well. Alesse obviously knows what she is doing (just look at the pics of her tanks) and her bettas were probably quite healthy living in the less than ideal jars. But that is because she has the experience to make sure the water parameters are maintained to a high quality and the fish get what they need.

Now on a forum where 90%+ of those asking questions are beginners, I do not think set ups like this should be promoted. Beginners may see that and think "what a great idea, I'll do that" and end up with sickly/dead fish. I try not to list my stocking in some tanks for a big reason, I do not want anyone trying to replicate it. I have some combinations that should not work, but due to the temperaments of the individual fish it does. There is a vast difference between what a beginner can do successfully in this hobby and what someone with experience can do successfully.

Trillianne
01-28-2011, 05:00 PM
I'll probably regret this later but.... Freedom of Speech does not apply to this situation. Freedom of Speech actually applies to the government censoring before or punishing people after, and is not universal throughout the world.

This forum is a private message board and as such is moderated by its own rules. Which is one of the reasons you don't see curse filled postings. You are actually NOT free to say whatever you like on this forum, and have agreed to abide by the forum rules.

Freedom of Speech is not a license to say whatever you want to say to whomever you want to say whenever you want to say without any consequences from anyone.

Xavier
01-28-2011, 05:05 PM
To the two bowl keepers, this thread was started by someone who was asking a valid question and was curious for the answer. Most replies were to that question. You disagreed with the answers given and proposed your alternatives. The responses have been either direct or indirect, but not all are dealing with you in mind, but the question at large. If someone talks about keeping fish in bowls as bad, that is their opinion on the question. If you poke them and cry fowl, then they WILL address you directly... which is no reason to poke them more and cry fowl again.

Irish2539
01-28-2011, 05:10 PM
:hmm3grin2orange: I hope a mod takes that away soon.....

People it's a PM gone wrong.... just ignore it if ya see it. No need to make a big deal out of it.

Goes to 11!
01-28-2011, 05:19 PM
[Speech not required, I'm not thrilled about it either lol]

I can appreciate that Trillianne [No regrets required on your part, It's all good] and I already apologized for the language and posting.

Please note it was posted by accident and it would be gone already if it was within my power to delete it.

I don't know who takes care of these things so now it is a matter of wait and see.


:hmm3grin2orange: I hope a mod takes that away soon.....

People it's a PM gone wrong.... just ignore it if ya see it. No need to make a big deal out of it.

Worth repeating.

Thanks Irish.

kingkarter
01-28-2011, 05:49 PM
Irish your betta is such a pretty boy!!!!!! :D Xavier, around the states, Bettas are around 3.00 to 5.00 for one that someone could buy at a "big box" pet store.
The whole thought about keeping them in little jar with no filtration or heater and putting them on a heating pad seems really odd, but not surprising unfortunately, considering the source the person who said they do that. It reminds me of some science experiment and makes me think that the fish are sitting there just like some sort of house decoration instead of a pet.


Yea for crowntails and vailtails. But if you wan't some thing else you could pay any where from $10 to $100+ denpending on the fish. But if you strait from the dealer/breeder you'll only pay $3 to $30 some times more

Lady Hobbs
01-28-2011, 10:26 PM
I'll probably regret this later but.... Freedom of Speech does not apply to this situation. Freedom of Speech actually applies to the government censoring before or punishing people after, and is not universal throughout the world.

This forum is a private message board and as such is moderated by its own rules. Which is one of the reasons you don't see curse filled postings. You are actually NOT free to say whatever you like on this forum, and have agreed to abide by the forum rules.

Freedom of Speech is not a license to say whatever you want to say to whomever you want to say whenever you want to say without any consequences from anyone.

Well said.

Lady Hobbs
01-28-2011, 11:00 PM
To the two bowl keepers, this thread was started by someone who was asking a valid question and was curious for the answer. Most replies were to that question. You disagreed with the answers given and proposed your alternatives. The responses have been either direct or indirect, but not all are dealing with you in mind, but the question at large. If someone talks about keeping fish in bowls as bad, that is their opinion on the question. If you poke them and cry fowl, then they WILL address you directly... which is no reason to poke them more and cry fowl again.

The subject has now been beat to death until only the insults thrown around is all that's left. I'm closing this thread since no one has learned how to "walk away" from a topic going nowhere.

Your post was excellent, IMO.