Ready to give up

[zackish]

Ok I am sure you all remember my story how my tank was cycled then I did a water change and all of a sudden my nitrites were really high. I think this was due in part because I planted all my plants in there and with the water change the gravel really stirred up. Well I decided to let the nitrites go back down naturally and wait to add fish. I put some ammonia in there and now it seems like my whole cycle is starting over.
I have about 3-5 ammonia and 2.0+ nitrites.
I am guessing I at least had to have some established bacteria in my tank seeing as though it was going for 2.5 weeks.
I don't understand what the problem could be or why it seems like it's starting over.
I am just looking for any thoughts or suggestions on what is happening of if any of you have any ideas.

Thanks,
Zac

[RobbieG]

How long between when you put the ammonia in and when you tested?

[zackish]

I use the shrimp and the past couple days I have been between 2.0 and 5.0 ppm of ammonia.

[Rue]

...er...didn't I tell you to let it do it's own thing?

There you go...not listening...messing around...and look what happens...

Tsk...30 lashes with a wet noodle for you! And NO dessert! *Hrmph*

[zackish]

Wat do you mean? If I just let it sit there after my initial water change there was 0 ammonia and the nitrites would have dissappeared because there was no ammonia. If the tank was established like it should have been it should just be feeding on the ammonia, am I correct?

[RobbieG]

Sorry Zackish I forgot you were using shrimp.

How many days passed between when you took the last shripm out and put the new one(s) in?

How long between when you put the shrimp in and you got the reading?

[Rue]

A tank will cycle - on it's own - with NO interference in approx. 6 weeks.

By adding ammonia we speed up the process...

...but so many factors come into play that no one can definatively give any one person an exact answer to how it's going to go...the initial water chemistry...the chemistry of the substrate...the temperature...etc.

It's well known that mucking about with the initial cycling can make the process take even longer than if you had done nothing at all...outside of waiting patiently.

You can also 'instant' cycle a new tank - just by adding established filter media and/or gravel...that's how the guys with multiple tanks do it...that's how I did it with my two recent small tanks...added fish the same day I set up the tank...

Just don't get discouraged...this is a learning experience...

[zackish]

What I'm saying is my tank was already cycled because I read 0,0 on ammonia and nitrites. I do my water change and all of a sudden it's back to nitrites 2.0.
I waited a day they didn't change. I put some shrimp in that day so the ammonia eating bacteria wouldn't die off. I tested it the next day and read about 2.0 ammonia and 2.0 nitrites.

And thanks for the clover Rue haahha. I am not really going to give up I just get aggrivated very easily. I thought I was ready then I run into this.

[Mark Lathrop]

I so know what you're going through. I have no patience when it comes to projects I wanna get done.

I'd say stop adding shrimp/ammonia cause you don't want your nitrites to STAY at 2, let the nitrates do their thing, water change, then add the fish. We're looking at about 2-3 more days or so.

Get a Wii like me, it keeps me well distracted. :D

[gm72]

Well I'm all kinds of confused on this one. You want to end up with 0-0-20+ Ammonia, nitrItes, nitrAtes, respectfully.

Hang in there. Once you are cycled you'll be a fish-lovin' machine!

[~Erik3.8.07~]

You can also 'instant' cycle a new tank - just by adding established filter media and/or gravel...that's how the guys with multiple tanks do it...that's how I did it with my two recent small tanks...added fish the same day I set up the tank...

wait you can do that? Will that still work if i take my established ac30 off my 10 gallon and the gravel and put them in a 40 gallon tank?
of course i would add a second bigger filter along with it

[SkarloeysMom]

wait you can do that? Will that still work if i take my established ac30 off my 10 gallon and the gravel and put them in a 40 gallon tank?
of course i would add a second bigger filter along with it

My 10g pretty much instant cycled by using established filter media and gravel. I was getting Nitrate readings on the 3rd day and Ammonia and Nitrites were 0.

Rue will that work so instantly on a bigger tank like a 40g?

[Rue]

That I'm not so sure of...

I would assume that if the bioload in the 40g wasn't heavier than the bioload in the 10g it should...

Monitor water parametres and add more fish slowly so you don't overload the new tank with a 2nd cycle...

[Rue]

...for what it's worth...I did put my filter media from my 25g into my 55g...and added a lot of new media...to seed the tank...

...but it's in the basement (for the goldies) and the water sat at 68F...so I never saw a nitrate spike at all.

I eventually put the 4 goldies and the dojo in the tank...and my nitrates did finally show up...and I just started doing water changes...

My ammonia and nitrites stayed at 0...

...that's why I don't know for sure...

[gm72]

Let's just clarify here. There are fast cycles and slow cycles, but every tank has to go through some kind of cycle. Rue is describing a very fast cycle that is initiated by heavily seeding a new tank.

There are relatively low levels of bacteria in gravel but relatively high levels in the media of a filter. Therefore by placing a well-established filter in a new tank, the cycle can be complete after a few days given a prescribed bioload. that being said however, bioloads are relative.

That is, the bioload to establish and move a cycle forward in a 10 gallon is vastly different from that of a 180 gallon. In fact, a given bioload to establish a 10 gallon cycle may very well starve beneficial bacteria in an established 180 given the water volume will dilute the ammonia.

[~Erik3.8.07~]

well since no1 seems 100% sure that it will work in the bigger tank, i guess i'll be doing some experimenting. I'll put in a filter and maybe some gravel and decorations from my established tank into the big tank and add the ammonia and see how long it takes to get some nitrates

[gm72]

No, no, you can do it for a larger tank. I just got done doing a fishless cycle on my new 40 gallon long tank, added a lot of established media from established tanks, and it went pretty fast. I just mean to suggest that it will take longer with a larger tank unless you add a TON of established media. Much easier to quick-start a smaller tank.

Here's what I did:
1. Established tank with dual AC 70s.
2. New tank, same exact size, dual AC 70s.
3. Pulled out one established media basket and one established sponge, put onto new filters. (I use the prepackaged sponge as the first layer then use a mesh bag of Ehfisynth media in my HOBs. I also add sponge prefilters to the uptake tubes).
4. Various small decorations established were put into the new tank.
5. About a week later rock solid water parameters.

[~Erik3.8.07~]

o ok sweet! thx so much for clearing that up gm

[zackish]

Well as of tonight....
0 ammonia
2.0 ppm nitrites


still just leave it or put shrimp in to put the ammonia up?
I was told that the ammonia and nitrites are created in a 1:1 ratio so does that mean there is no ammonia in the tank and when my nitrites go away it's because the bacteria that make nitrites were starved from lack of ammonia?