Smell Problem

[j0hnh0lmes]

I have a 10gal and have a bit of a stench problem....
The tank hasn't really cycled yet, I have 4 zebra danios in the tank right now and getting a fishy smell, could it be my nitrates?

Oh and I just re-did my tank, it's been set-up since last night, I re-did the water, rinsed all the gravel and all that good stuff, so I doubt it's algea...

[gm72]

Please describe the smell?

You aren't cycled yet but you "re-did" your tank? Whatever progress you were making toward cycle completion was probably just destroyed.

[kimmers318]

I have to agree with Gm72....you just destroyed most of the good bacteria with your thorough cleaning.
Your best bet now would be to get a liquid test kit and start keeping an eye on your water parameters so that you can do water changes to keep your ammonia and nitrites from getting too high while your tank cycles. Cycling with fish will take a long time....weeks....so don't get discouraged. Read up on cycling so you understand what the process is about and will know what will be happening.
If you know anyone who has an established tank ask if you can get some filter material or "mulm" I believe the word is from them. If you rinse their filter media in your water by swishing it around in your tank, that will give you a jumpstart in bacteria for your own cycling. I have started many tanks this way and it works wonders.

[Lady Hobbs]

Yup. You messed up and now must start over. Cleaning all that stuff in tap water has destroyed all the bacteria you were trying to grow.

Feed those fish sparingly and you won't get those high nitrates.....which I doubt you had yet. Feeding danio's a tiny bit about every 3 or 4 days is enough. You may have been overfeeding and that food got sucked into the filter and was causing the smell.

Fish eat about the size of their eye. A tiny speck of food will feed danio's sufficiently.

[j0hnh0lmes]

thanks guys

the reason I re-did my tank was b/c I had put 5 danios in there and they died all of a sudden after being in the tank for 10 min, and yes I accumalted(sp?) them and all that good stuff.

After I cleaned my tank I went and got more danios and they are fine, so I'm thinking maybe one of my cats were playing in my water b/c I saw alot of hair in my gravel when I re-rinsed it out....they are both inside and outside cats so maybe they had something on the paws....

I do have extra food at the bottom, I'll go get a gravel vacuum today

[gm72]

LOL, you wrote: "accumalted". Sounds like a new drink or something. You meant acclimate.

Announcer: "Try new Accumalt, now in chocolate!"

Something was wrong with your water for them to die that suddenly. Sick fish go over time. There had to have been something wrong.

[Lady Hobbs]

He's learning to spell from me! I think I spelled it the same way.

[j0hnh0lmes]

LOL, you wrote: "accumalted". Sounds like a new drink or something. You meant acclimate.

Announcer: "Try new Accumalt, now in chocolate!"

Something was wrong with your water for them to die that suddenly. Sick fish go over time. There had to have been something wrong.


thats what I was thinking, so I just re-did the tank.... it had a bad fog in it but it was supposed to be from the Proper pH stuff I used... my pH settled at 6.8 so eh... I think they'll be ok now though

[Rue]

It's smelling and killing fish because you're not letting it cycle.

When you cleaned it, and put in new fish...they were fine because the water was so clean...they'll likely die as the tank attempts to cycle again...

[j0hnh0lmes]

still doing fine...but I still have a bit of a stench, and there is no rotting food in the tank...

[gm72]

Rue is right. Have you researched adequately to understand how to cycle a tank? It is a critically important step that a lot of new aquarists miss.

[j0hnh0lmes]

yea I wanted to fishless cycle the tank but my gf had to get fish... :c11:

So now I just have to deal with trying to do the best I can with the fish cycle and watch the water and the fish very closely

[gm72]

Well you have it right twice here. Keep watching your fish and water parameters very closely. And obey the gf. Always, at least, if you know what's good for you!:ezpi_wink1: :ezpi_wink1:

[Rocky06fx4]

What do you guys think of the bottles with bacteria starters for your aquarium, would this be the appropriate situation?

[Rue]

Their effectiveness is questionable...but they certainly won't hurt. I still use Cycle when I do water changes...

The only one that seems to really be effective at the moment is BioSpira...it's kept refridgerated and has a short shelf life...

[dev]

What kind of filtering do you have? Did you clean the filter media when you re-did the tank?

I would change 20-30% water every day until um .. the cycle is complete.

Adding a little bacteria starter won't hurt, some in the tank and some in the filter.

[gm72]

By changing the water every day you are however removing the ammonia and nitrites that you need to perpetuate the cycle.

[j0hnh0lmes]

yea I don't do water changes, but do add a pint or two a week after cleaning

[dev]

By changing the water every day you are however removing the ammonia and nitrites that you need to perpetuate the cycle.

I must beg to differ. You are not removing the ammonia and nitrites. You are only assisting the bacteria in a job they cannot yet fully perform, by reducing the concentration with 20-30% on a daily basis. Even if you have no measurable amount of ammonia in the water, enough dirt will stick and decompose in the filter to get the bacteria going, though the process may take a little longer.

If there is fish in the tank, I strongly believe the priority must be to keep the water at a decent quality while the filter slowly builds the required amount of bacteria. It really doesnt help to have a working nitrogen cycle if all your fish died or got sick in the process.

While nitrosomonas and nitrobacter does grow much slower than most other bacteria they can still quadruple their capacity within only a few hours, provided that your filter has enough surfaces for them to live on. They will quickly adapt to the new levels when you stop the daily water changes, after the NH3/4 and NO2 concentration is stable at near 0 ppm.

Adding a little water will have very little effect on the concentration of ammonia and nitrates.

[gm72]

If the ammonia and nitrItes are in the water and you are removing the water, you are removing them. It is not possible to be any other way.

I do however agree that if there are fish in the tank it is critical to keep the tank as clean as possible. Most of us here don't cycle using fish though.

[dev]

If the ammonia and nitrItes are in the water and you are removing the water, you are removing them. It is not possible to be any other way.

You still make it sound like we are completely removing any trace of them. We are not. 70% of whatever ammonia is left in the tank (and fish and decomposition keeps adding more) will stay in the tank. (is this too harsh a tone, maybe? I tried to get my point through in a friendly tone but probably failed miserably *s*)

I do however agree that if there are fish in the tank it is critical to keep the tank as clean as possible. Most of us here don't cycle using fish though.

I'm glad we at least agree on this part :)

Of couse I do not reccomend adding fish before you have established enough bacteria to support them. In this case, however, the damage is done.

This is damage control, and it really does work - it is commonly used to recover from a crashed filter, or a nitrate spike after cleaning a very dirty substrate.

I have had to do this myself more than once after power outages. When all your canisters crash at once, there is not much else you can do but clean the filters, change water and pray.

[gm72]

Your tone isn't harsh, we're just discussing things, all is well. If you are misinterpreted here as being inappropriate or harsh, you'll know because someone will let you know!

I don't mean to suggest you are removing all of the ammonia/nitrItes, but if you change out the water, you HAVE to be removing some of it. Fish and decomposition are non-issues in a fishless cycle, so the comment you made to such doesn't apply. You have a brand new tank with no detritus, no debris of any kind. I, along with many others here, believe that a cycle once initiated and once moving smoothly, is best left alone.

Frequent small water changes are a great idea to recover, as you say, from a filter crash or in the event of spikes of any kind.

[dev]

Your tone isn't harsh, we're just discussing things, all is well. If you are misinterpreted here as being inappropriate or harsh, you'll know because someone will let you know!

Good, and please do.

I don't mean to suggest you are removing all of the ammonia/nitrItes, but if you change out the water, you HAVE to be removing some of it.

Agreed.

Fish and decomposition are non-issues in a fishless cycle, so the comment you made to such doesn't apply. You have a brand new tank with no detritus, no debris of any kind. I, along with many others here, believe that a cycle once initiated and once moving smoothly, is best left alone.


I don't believe I made any comment to a fishless cycle. It is possible I have misunderstood the situation, but I thought we were talking about a tank where all the fish had died and new had been added before the bacteria had a chance to establish.

We don't know the levels of ammonia and nitrites, but there is a good chance that these are too high.

I don't know the state of the filter, since j0hnh0lmes did not yet reply to that question.

I agree that a working nitrogen cycle is best left alone. It appears this is not the case in this tank.

Frequent small water changes are a great idea to recover, as you say, from a filter crash or in the event of spikes of any kind.

Perhaps our views are not that different after all.

[gm72]

Good points.

Our views aren't that different, you just take a different angle than some. Most people who are here and who stay here have very similar lines of thought. Those that don't probably don't know what they are talking about and don't last too long. Most of the disagreements here are either with people who are just basically stupid and shouldn't be posting at all or are with people who just don't fully understand what the other is talking about. No, I'm not calling you out on that, just a generalized statement! :22:

[dev]

Yes, I belive my angle is quite different. While we all have the welfare of our fish in mind, the entire fishkeeping community in Norway, being strongly influenced by Germany, has a slightly different focus than the American community.

I can assure you that while I do learn something new about fishkeeping on a daily basis, I do have a thourough understanding of the nitrogen cycle.

I have actually read the original paper on fishless cycling by Dr. Chris Cow, a concept you will find most people here have never heard of. (I read it after my first visit here over a year ago, after browsing through your ebook)

So we call our brine shrimp for Artemia, our plants are shipped with rockwool, and the fish place on the corner don't carry any ammonia test kits - Still water is water and fish is fish, and we all work towards, and hopefully get to, the same ends; a rewarding hobby with healthy, thriving and nice looking fish and plants.

Hopefully we can all learn a little from eachother.

[gm72]

Well said. An open mind is a mind ready to learn.

[j0hnh0lmes]

So...I added my Penguin filter with the bio-wheel last night, the starter fish I had put in are still all in good health and are actually very playful.

Yes, I had a set of starter fish die, then I re-did the entire tank (cleaned and refilled) and since then I've had a thriving tank.

The smell problem went away so I am guessing it was my nitrites as I didn't have any food on the bottom of the tank....

I'm going to have my water tested tomorrow to see if the tank MAY be ready...