Need advice on algae

[Xavier]

Hey gang,
So over the last month, I have been fighting a losing battle with algae. Since my fish are getting bigger, they produce more waste and since my water parameters are near perfect (0 0 5) and I have a semi-planted aquarium, the algae is growing faster and faster.

I have a 32gal tank with an eheim 2213 and 3 juvenile ranchus. I can't have anymore fish in that tank since my bioload is maxed. I've tried to have plecos (my BN is in the 15gal betta tank) and snails (all killed by the goldfish) and I don't think shrimp would survive the goldfish. I can't feed the goldfish less and I can't add more plants.

That leaves me with very few options. Once a week I scrub off all the green algae on the glass (not cytobacteria since more light didn't kill it) and most of the brown algae off the plants and do a water change (50%). 3-4 days later, all the algae is back. It is even starting to clog the filter.

So, my question is, considering the size of my tank, what equipment can I add to eliminate this problem. I don't want to add chemicals or change my food or lighting. Thoughts?

[smaug]

Do a test for phosphates.what kind of food are you feeding and how many times a day? How long are your lights on a day now? Do you use any ferts?

[Xavier]

I have phosphates. Most likely from the food. Around 2ppm last I checked.

I feed New Life Spectrum for goldfish twice a day.

My lights are on 14 hours a day (8 am to 10 pm).

I use Seachem's excel (Co2), although I just ran out, and flourish, although I cut that when the brown algae appeared.

[Plant Man]

I have phosphates. Most likely from the food. Around 2ppm last I checked.

I feed New Life Spectrum for goldfish twice a day.

My lights are on 14 hours a day (8 am to 10 pm).

I use Seachem's excel (Co2), although I just ran out, and flourish, although I cut that when the brown algae appeared.

Cut your lighting down to under 10 hours. Plants don't photosynthesize much more then 8 anyway.

Are you saying your tank reads 5ppm nitrates when you do a water change?

Have you thought about adding higher levels of carbon with a pressure system?

I keep my Phosphate at around 5ppm and I don't have algae. It can't be the phosphate.

[Cliff]

you got a lot of great advice so far

Dose your tank get any direct sunlight? Even an hour of direct sunlight can really help algae grow alot

Also, what is the K rating of your lighting. IMO, plants don't need any over 10,000K, anything higher will have a blue-ish tint to it which algae really really likes

[smaug]

Cut the light back to 8 hrs as suggestted. Feed twice a day less then the amount you feed now. Skip 1 day every 3 days feeding. Vac the gravel more often. Algaeissues like you have can really only be soved in the ways suggested. There is no equipment that will help either.

[Xavier]

I'm willing to cut the lighting to 12 hours a day, but below 10 is just too low... I'll also need to find another timer for the powerhead since now the powerhead and the lighting won't be synced.

I don't know what my K rating is. I have a 15W Aqua-glo in the front and a 15W flora-glo in the back. The first is 18 000k and the second is lower, but I can't find the number. That being said, the algae seems to grow a little faster under the flora-glow. (I think both are approaching their replacement dates)

As to feeding less, I spent a long time trying to get them food that didn't constipate them and they are now growing at a steady pace.

The tank gets 0 direct sunlight and for 6 months of the year gets little if any indirect light.

Yep, my nitrates stay very low. I'd love 0, but that would be changing too much of the water and risking hurting the BB. I rarely test the water before a water change anymore. I got in the habit of cleaning on Sundays.

I've considered getting a CO2 system, but I don't have that many plants and the excel is not too invasive.

I have been looking at UV sterilizers to help control the algae, but have heard little about them from the AC. Curious as to why no one uses them.

[Plant Man]

I'm willing to cut the lighting to 12 hours a day, but below 10 is just too low... I'll also need to find another timer for the powerhead since now the powerhead and the lighting won't be synced.

I don't know what my K rating is. I have a 15W Aqua-glo in the front and a 15W flora-glo in the back. The first is 18 000k and the second is lower, but I can't find the number. That being said, the algae seems to grow a little faster under the flora-glow. (I think both are approaching their replacement dates)

As to feeding less, I spent a long time trying to get them food that didn't constipate them and they are now growing at a steady pace.

The tank gets 0 direct sunlight and for 6 months of the year gets little if any indirect light.

Yep, my nitrates stay very low. I'd love 0, but that would be changing too much of the water and risking hurting the BB. I rarely test the water before a water change anymore. I got in the habit of cleaning on Sundays.

I've considered getting a CO2 system, but I don't have that many plants and the excel is not too invasive.

I have been looking at UV sterilizers to help control the algae, but have heard little about them from the AC. Curious as to why no one uses them.


Zero Nitrates would kill your plants! So I don't think you would love that to much.

So you have 30 watts of light over a 32 gallon tank? and not the right spectrum. Can I assume they are T-8? If so you are very-low light.

I would start by buying two new bulbs in the 7,600K range or 1 10,000K and 1 7,600k range. and 1 to 2 caps of excel per day.

[Xavier]

Zero Nitrates would kill your plants! So I don't think you would love that to much.

So you have 30 watts of light over a 32 gallon tank? and not the right spectrum. Can I assume they are T-8? If so you are very-low light.

I would start by buying two new bulbs in the 7,600K range or 1 10,000K and 1 7,600k range. and 1 to 2 caps of excel per day.

Wow, I've learned so much in 6 months about everything else EXCEPT my lights it seems...

I'll try to find a crash course online, but I'll ask some of the basics here anyhow. Yes the bulbs say t8 and yes it is 30W for my 32gal.

Considering my lid, what bulb do you recommend? (18" fluro.) Which in the front and which in the back? what is T-8?

[smaug]

Your fixture will only do the wattage it is for. You are stuck with that output unless you get a bigger fixture. For better growth you need 60 watts of good k rate light in the 6500 k area. Co2 is of very little uses with low light plants under min light. You risk no harm to your bb even with 100% water changes as its in the filter and on surfaces,not in the water. As for less feedings,healthy fish can get by and grow well with less the twice a day everyday,they burn very little of the food they get in tank life because they simply aren't doing anything . Uv light would do nothing for the troubles you have as they only kill freefloating organisms and green algae is on the surfaces. The t number refers to the diam of the tube and it is in eigths of an inch, t8 is 8 eigths or 1 inch and are usually very low output low intensity lights. T5 or 5 eights of an inch are higher output but you need the fixture specifically for them. As for cutting back the hours of light,you are only benefiting your algae growth with anything more then 8 hrs. This will prove to be a very useful thread for you if you take all the advice given in it. I apoligize for the spelling, I have sausage fingers and this is typed on a smart phone.

[smaug]

Sorry for the double post but what I meant to say at the end of my above post was that this whole thread will prove usefull to you,not just what Im sayin.

[Xavier]

This whole thread is proving useful, that I can't argue with.

I've always read that changing more than 50% of the water is bad since it deprives the BB of food and you run the risk of a mini-cycle. Not to mention the risk of chlorine getting in the filter. Also it stresses the fish. (side note: I know you are suggesting that I change 100% of the water)

The UV light wouldn't kill the algae I have, but wouldn't it kill their spores when they try to spread? They must send out something to jump from one surface to another and that is when they would be sucked in and destroyed... at least that is my understanding.

As for lighting, I'll need to go to the good LFS and ask what will work on my aquarium. I like the setup I have, but if the lighting is all off, then that is what I will change. More watts, smaller tubes, lower K.

Unrelated question: Will this new lighting help me take nicer pics of my fish? :P

[smaug]

Keep in mind that BB takes a while to starve,even with 100% water changes it would still get all the food it needs rather quickly from a stocked established tank.Better light will always give better pics.A word of caution when in search of more light.If your balance goes out of whack [like it is now] you will have even more algae issues.Goldys are plant eaters as well,so keep that in mind .Surface algaes need very little propogation by freefloating,get just some on surfaces and with the right conditions for them they will spread even if you stop it from happening through the water. Uv lights are a last resort,I wager you would see no reduction in algae even of you had a very good one.I use one on my outdoor pond because there really is no other way to avoid green water algae in a heavily stocked pond in direct sunlight. It does nothing at all to kill my surface algaes,it does kill the green water back by about 75%.It is the GW algae that can be killed with uv because it is entirely freefloating.

[Plant Man]

This whole thread is proving useful, that I can't argue with.

I've always read that changing more than 50% of the water is bad since it deprives the BB of food and you run the risk of a mini-cycle. Not to mention the risk of chlorine getting in the filter. Also it stresses the fish. (side note: I know you are suggesting that I change 100% of the water)

The UV light wouldn't kill the algae I have, but wouldn't it kill their spores when they try to spread? They must send out something to jump from one surface to another and that is when they would be sucked in and destroyed... at least that is my understanding.

As for lighting, I'll need to go to the good LFS and ask what will work on my aquarium. I like the setup I have, but if the lighting is all off, then that is what I will change. More watts, smaller tubes, lower K.

Unrelated question: Will this new lighting help me take nicer pics of my fish? :P

I grew this tank with 1.2watts of T-8 with twin 2L DIY Co2. My first planted tank attempt.

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And this is only 1.8watts,

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I would say keeping your lights between 1.2 and 1.5 watts will let you grow and keep nutrients in the tank more easily. Getting closer to 2 watts will make it harder to keep algae in check simply because you run the risk of running out of some nutrient, stunting growth and causing BBA or worse, Staghorn.

[smaug]

plus 1 on the plantmans tank and low light. Alot can be done if you keep undemanding plants in smaller tanks.

[Plant Man]

Seeing as we're talking about light here's what I know regarding algae,

Why do some get algae even though they dose NO3, PO4, CO2 and other nutrients on regular bases”?

The worst mistake many do in such cases is they start reducing nutrients out of fear that these nutrients might be creating the algae issue. Such nutrient reducing method will induce algae even more!

Let’s name the real reasons behind algae issues in planted aquariums which are dosed with nutrients on regular bases:

Low Oxygen level,

Low Oxygen (O2) level can be caused by overstocking, high water temperature (summer time), dirty filters, overfeeding, weak surface agitation.


Insufficient water circulation,

Insufficient water circulation can cause poor nutrient transport. Even though we dose enough of CO2, NO3, PO4 + traces the water flow has to be strong enough to deliver all those nutrients to the plants. Improve over all circulation (stronger pumps, more pumps).


Organic build-up, Un-cycled aquarium,

Organics tend to build-up over time with feeding, fish-waste, rotting plant leaves, etc… Decomposing bacteria needs ample supplies of Oxygen in accordance to decompose Organics into inorganic compounds like NH4, NO3, PO4, and CO2 which plants can use up.
Shredders like shrimps and snails can help a lot in organic recycling. Bacteria can’t decompose bigger organic peaces fast enough. Shrimps and snails will eat dead plants leaves, un-eaten food or food trapped in gravel preventing them from rotting slowly.
Keep good O2 levels by creating a moderate surface agitation, keep the filters clean, keep good circulation, remove un-eaten food, remove old plant leaves, perform regular water changes, stock the tank with shrimps and snails and perform light gravel vacuuming every so often.

If you do these things 100% water changes are not nessesary. 50% is as big as you should go really. I do 35-40% weekly. You can get away with less as long as your fish load is kept low.

[Xavier]

Alright, I want to reel you guys in here :hmm3grin2orange:

I'm not afraid that my plants won't get enough light. They have been growing hard and fast with their current lighting, so reducing the lighting isn't going to hurt, so I did. I have 2 eel grass plants and 2 anubias. Basically plants that the goldfish don't eat. The anubias have tripled in size in 3-4 months and the eel grass is now 2-3 feet long, and I bought it 2 months ago at 1 foot.

There is never any uneaten food in the tank since the pellets are massive and the goldfish eat them all so quickly. I pick up plant leaves quickly, but there are rarely any leaves since the goldfish don't touch the plants.

The filter is cleaned once a month (without un-cycling it) and I have an air pump and a power head creating loads of water circulation and gas exchange. (power head turns off at night to give the fish a rest)

I don't have algae on the top of the tank, but on the glass and on the plant leaves. To quote my first post:
"Once a week I scrub off all the green algae on the glass (not cytobacteria since more light didn't kill it) and most of the brown algae off the plants and do a water change (50%). 3-4 days later, all the algae is back."

Perhaps I am wrong about it not being cytobacteria. Tank doesn't smell, but you never know. I had green water once for about a week, but got rid of it months ago.

I can't have shrimp, plecos or snails in this tank... evil goldfish.

So, I'm reducing the lighting a little, and continuing to add Co2. Do I change my lights, despite my plants growing well? Will that help reduce the algae? Will a UV sterilizer reduce the green algae on my glass?

[smaug]

I'm gonna jump right to the bottom of your last post.For the last time :sconfused: a uv light cannot and will not rid your tank of algae unless it is free floating green water algae.When I refer to surface algae I am talking about algae that grows on surfaces,ya know,glass,plant leaves,gravel.When I say feed less I am assuming you already know to not feed more then they will eat so I assume as well that you are aware that even the food that passes through there digestive tract will also contribute to algae growth.And for the light and your plants,if you are happy with the type plants you have and there growth,then do not add more light,those type plants are fine with very low light.Next thing,the other side of the sword about low light plants,they absorb next to nothing of nutrients in your water .
in short.
1. Feed less
2.keep light period at 8hrs
3.gravel vac more.
4.do bigger WC more often
5> forget about UV lights :hmm3grin2orange:
nuff said.You are free to go now:14:

Plantman: I never recomended 100% WC.It was said as example only.

[Xavier]

1. Feed less
2.keep light period at 8hrs
3.gravel vac more.
4.do bigger WC more often
5> forget about UV lights

1. I'll try. LOL
2. 10-12 is as low as I go.
3. I gravel vac every week, almost all the gravel.
4. 30-50% a week already...
5. kk.

However, this leaves me with 2 lingering questions:
1- What kind of plants could I add that would absorb more nutrients, but that the goldfish won't eat.
2- How does the surface algae spread, either the green or the brown? Is there something I can do to reduce the spreading?

[smaug]

Quest 1.None really.
2. last part of question. Is there something I can do to reduce the spreading.Absolutly:hmm3grin2orange: see my suggestion on rule 2.

Im not totally sure how green surface algae spreads in all its ways.

[Plant Man]

1. I'll try. LOL
2. 10-12 is as low as I go.
3. I gravel vac every week, almost all the gravel.
4. 30-50% a week already...
5. kk.

However, this leaves me with 2 lingering questions:
1- What kind of plants could I add that would absorb more nutrients, but that the goldfish won't eat.
2- How does the surface algae spread, either the green or the brown? Is there something I can do to reduce the spreading?

Honestly, you are thinking about the algae to much.

You should concentrate on making the environment right for the plants and the algae will die off on its own.

Nutrients do not cause/help algae growth. This is very old aquarium dogma that just won’t seem to die. You have algae because “basically” the plants are not happy and wanting for “something”. Plants need things to be just a little bit more right then algae do.

Algae can and will thrive in all the wrong conditions for good healthy plant growth. Excess nutrients are good not bad. Many people believe (as did I until I listened and learned) that an excess of some nutrient like Phosphate or Nitrate causes algae, this is as far from the truth as one could get. Like Tom Barr and many others have proven.

My tank is absolutely flooded with excess nutrients, 2-5ppm Phosphate 10-30ppm Nitrate as well as all the rest. I have no algae!

I’ll send you a pm.

[Xavier]

Thanks everyone for the help. I will do my best to follow your advice. I will update you all in a few weeks with the results :)

[Xavier]

Found the lights I needed. I now have 2 life-glo lights on my 32gal. That's 40W total. They are full-spectrum lights at 6700K.

The lights are much brighter. By adding excel, I hope to choke out the brown algae.

In the mean time I did a 100% water change and took all the algae out of the aquarium. I'll make a new post in a few weeks to let you all know how it went :P