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BiGBlak
10-21-2010, 06:05 AM
Im throwing money away left and right because i dont know how to plant .So i decided to only go with the idiot proof plants meaning very easy to care for plants like java fern . Could someone help me out with a list of plants that gets there nutrients from the water rather than the substrate. My substrate isnt idea for plants and im not experience enough to go threw with that . i already ran threw four bunches of amazon swords with bad results. Im tired of throwing away money PLZ help PLZ!:help:

MCHRKiller
10-21-2010, 06:44 AM
Hygro, Java Fern, Moss species, Anubias...and of course floating species such as Brazillian Pennywort, Dwarf Water Lettuce.

BiGBlak
10-21-2010, 06:49 AM
could you believe i killed some fern ? by leaving it out of the water for 30 mins ? and how i just found out that all anubias and fern are tied down to a rock or piece of wood and the ancor is in the substrate? thats why i said i need help lol ..

thedeanorama
10-21-2010, 07:15 AM
Cabomba for me seems easy ... I think I would have to yank it out and set fire to it before it realizes I'm abusing it. In 3 weeks time I've more than doubled my original purchase by replanting my trimmings.

At some point I'm going to have to accept that I no longer need to retain the trimmings and just toss them ... kills me to admit I will have to get rid of perfectly healthy plants at some point in the future.

As for how to plant plants, I came across this video page (http://www.tropica.com/advising/tropica-abc/videos.aspx) (select tips and tricks) the other night in my meanderings on the webernet. They do a simple how to for a lot of different types of plants. Tonnes of info on this site and well worth some time poking around it.

sp00f
10-21-2010, 08:22 AM
Anacharis! and moss balls - even I can't kill either of those, but I'm not sure they count....

JCheco
10-21-2010, 08:50 AM
Anacharis FTW!!! Seriously I don't think its possible to mess up with those.

Excellence
10-21-2010, 11:48 AM
Really? Cabomba and I are like the Doctor and Daleks.

They never stay green for long, look dusty from all the floating particles they catch and need lots of lights that causes more algae in return.

Hard to say with my amazon swords. I have too many of them for so small a space, they've ballooned in size and I've not planted them properly.


I'm going to try anubia nana when I get my tank set up. I have lots of drifties I'm de-tanning. They're attaching plants; burying them will kill them. I'll try attaching some to the wood. Hee hee.

hockeyhead019
10-21-2010, 12:42 PM
Hmmm I never had a problem with Amazon Swords, but if you wanna go failsafe get anacharis, be ware you'll mostly introduce snails unless you clean the anacharis with something first (I can't remember for the life of me what the name of the solution is lol)

JuliaC
10-21-2010, 01:39 PM
Cabomba for me seems easy

Cabomba doesn't work in my tanks at all. My conditions are low to moderate light, water slightly alkaline (pH of 7.8), temp 70-75F. Cabomba looks good only for a week and then slowly dies over a month or two regardless of whether I plant it in the substrate or leave to float.
Plants that do work great for me are java fern, java moss, many kinds of cryptocorines, banana plant, amazon frogbit.

thedeanorama
10-21-2010, 04:11 PM
Must be my water conditions then. I have a ph of 6.6ish and a temp of 80F ... maybe the perfect storm for Cabomba?

I would say light is a factor too, but it's doing well in the the 5.5g I'm cycling currently and I only have a 9 watt tube on that. It pretty much has the same water conditions other than the fact that my nitrates, nitrites and ammonia are all up, ph and temp are the same though.

Scrup
10-21-2010, 04:13 PM
Hornwort is a hands off plant. And the fish wont really touch it.

Is this in your Mbuna tank btw?

anacharis is another good one that is pretty hands off, can be planted or floating. It will get eaten by some fish though.

kurly
10-21-2010, 05:01 PM
I love my Anubias Nana which is tied down to a piece of driftwood. One of mine has bloomed two flowers. It's a very green and hardy plant so I don't think you can go wrong with it.

BiGBlak
10-21-2010, 05:38 PM
Hornwort is a hands off plant. And the fish wont really touch it.

Is this in your Mbuna tank btw?

anacharis is another good one that is pretty hands off, can be planted or floating. It will get eaten by some fish though.
no its in my rainbow tank. Im switching my mbuna tank to a CA cichlid tank in about a week or two.

BiGBlak
10-21-2010, 05:39 PM
I love my Anubias Nana which is tied down to a piece of driftwood. One of mine has bloomed two flowers. It's a very green and hardy plant so I don't think you can go wrong with it.
I got some anubias nana rubber banded to my driftwood but it hasnt attached yet. i like how hardy that plant is .

BiGBlak
10-21-2010, 05:43 PM
whats the ideal way to start off some java fern? and how long does it tank to start looking huge like a backdrop plant ? i was thinking of buying a few more bunches today and rubberband them to a nice size rock each and plop them in my tank and let them go from there. Is that the way to go ? and is there a certain type of java fern that ends up looking like a backdrop plant or do all of it eventually get that tall and big ?

Aeonflame
10-21-2010, 05:51 PM
Instead of using the rubberband which takes quite a while, try using a small dab of superglue on the rhizome. It will hold the plant in place while the roots attach. Strong, and no unsightly rubber bands or thread. Java fern can be a low light plant, but they really take off with higher lighting and C02. I have found that they tend to develop brown areas when theres a lack of nitrates in your water column. Im not saying to dose your tank with N, but its something to consider if you start having that problem.

BiGBlak
10-21-2010, 06:07 PM
Instead of using the rubberband which takes quite a while, try using a small dab of superglue on the rhizome. It will hold the plant in place while the roots attach. Strong, and no unsightly rubber bands or thread. Java fern can be a low light plant, but they really take off with higher lighting and C02. I have found that they tend to develop brown areas when theres a lack of nitrates in your water column. Im not saying to dose your tank with N, but its something to consider if you start having that problem.
what kind of superglue is ok ? i never thought superglue would be aquamium safe so i never thought of it . . .

Aeonflame
10-21-2010, 06:50 PM
marine tank owners often use it to join coral frags. It hardens instantly on contact with water and becomes inert. I have used it with great success. Try to use it sparingly though, especially on darker surfaces that will remain exposed since it turns white when wet.

Lady Hobbs
10-21-2010, 09:40 PM
I've attached it to wood with my stapler gun and just later pop the staples out. But java fern never does well for me nor do swords. You've had some good suggestions on the floating plants but some of those mentioned will be killed off with Excel so make sure you don't use it. You should not need it anyway. I think anacharis and hornwort are both victims of Excel death.

Scrup
10-21-2010, 09:55 PM
Hornwort does fine with excel for me, but anacharis vanished 100% after two doses.

MCHRKiller
10-21-2010, 10:08 PM
If you want a background java fern, IMO just buy a large one. You can get huge mother plants for around $20-25, compared to a small plantlet at $6 its definatly worth the investment. I never attach or tie my ferns down...i just kind of put them where I want them or wedge them somewhere...they will eventually hold themselves down.

BiGBlak
10-21-2010, 10:12 PM
If you want a background java fern, IMO just buy a large one. You can get huge mother plants for around $20-25, compared to a small plantlet at $6 its definatly worth the investment. I never attach or tie my ferns down...i just kind of put them where I want them or wedge them somewhere...they will eventually hold themselves down.
Mother Plants? i dont think i ever seen them sold big thats why i askd if they grow that big lol... about excel i thought that stuff was suppose to be good for all plants i guess i have to be carefull about dosing the tank with it ...... Im going to try and look for those mother plants.

BiGBlak
10-21-2010, 10:15 PM
I just bought some more fern and some other plants. Right now i just threw them in and after i clean my house im going to position and plant them and then im going to make a video and would like as much helpful feed back i can get from you guys on what is the name of some of the plants because ther are two that i dont know the names and is my placements good for the overall outlook when they start to grow ... Hopefully

MCHRKiller
10-21-2010, 10:24 PM
The large ferns you normally have to buy online, check out ebay or aquariumplants.com. Most hardly plants are not negatively affected by Excel, Vals are probably the #1 plant that melts from it most others are fine with the exception of some stems.

BiGBlak
10-22-2010, 05:22 AM
NO MERCY ON ME PLZ! TELL ME WHATS WRONG WITH MY TANK WHAT I BETTER CHANGE, SHOULD CHANGE, ALL THAT . I NEED ALL THE CRITICISM I CAN GET I WANNA BE PROUD OF THIS TANK REALLY PROUD SO HELP ME. IM ALREADY WORKING WITH A SUBSTRATE THATS HARD TO WORK WITH BUT BARE WITH ME AND THROW IT AT ME!!!.... HERES MY TANK

yzF-4rrg2xg

MCHRKiller
10-22-2010, 05:30 AM
Ditch the airstone, it is driving off CO2 your plants could use. Get those ferns rhizomes out of the substrate...you can get away with partially burrying them but really they shouldnt be planted like that. Otherwise it is a nice start...id fill in some background plants maybe find a red sword or a couple of red/bronze crypts.

W_Oz
10-22-2010, 05:31 AM
Java ferns shouldn't be buried in the substrate, that's about the only thing I can see really. Unless those are vals on your wood in which case you'll want to plant those. Looks nice and bright in there. Is that a PC lamp? Don't worry about the air stone, it'll do more good than harm in a rig like this, even with the plants.

Really IMO the only people who should worry about driving CO2 out of their tanks are the people who are putting CO2 into the tank in the first place via yeast reactor or compressed gas. Otherwise the difference between your ppm of CO2 with the air stone will only be marginally lower than your ppm without the air stone unless you have a LOT of aerobic activity happening in your tank in which case you'd have more interesting things going on. In a rig like this getting pearling to happen will likely only be a water change type of event if that. I've only seen pearling in person on a select few planted tanks and none of them were un-CO2-injected systems (aka hi-tech).

So yeah, keep the stone, your fish will thank you.

BiGBlak
10-22-2010, 05:40 AM
Ditch the airstone, it is driving off CO2 your plants could use. Get those ferns rhizomes out of the substrate...you can get away with partially burrying them but really they shouldnt be planted like that. Otherwise it is a nice start...id fill in some background plants maybe find a red sword or a couple of red/bronze crypts.
The air stone is useless? fish gonna be aiight without it right ? Im going to pull the fern up out the substrate i just didnt have anything lying around to anchor it to the ground. Im going to get rid of those swords later on i rather prefer something like that mother plant fern as a back drop plant. COuld you Id the plant in the front left corner and the left back corner and also in the back middle ? and how i should plant them ? Have you ordered from aquarium plants before ? because i may go ahead and get those fern you suggested.

MCHRKiller
10-22-2010, 05:49 AM
Id give the swords awhile, many of them are grown emersed thus when submerged will die off some. You have filters moving water and plants using CO2 and releasing oxygen...they will be fine without the stone. I have ordered from aquariumplants.com...they have yet to disapoint me.

Back left is elodea/anacharis, front left...kind of hard to see it well enough to make a definite ID. Does it have roots? If so it is either some sort of Val or Sag. If it has a rhizome it is a needle leaf fern. lol, I am working on an 11" machine without contacts :14:

BiGBlak
10-22-2010, 06:04 AM
Id give the swords awhile, many of them are grown emersed thus when submerged will die off some. You have filters moving water and plants using CO2 and releasing oxygen...they will be fine without the stone. I have ordered from aquariumplants.com...they have yet to disapoint me.

Back left is elodea/anacharis, front left...kind of hard to see it well enough to make a definite ID. Does it have roots? If so it is either some sort of Val or Sag. If it has a rhizome it is a needle leaf fern. lol, I am working on an 11" machine without contacts :14:
Ok i turned off the airstone the front left i believe has rhizome im dont know the dif but its not like what the swords have. so im gonna say rhizome and thats my final answer lol. If they are the needle leaf fern then its in my tank wrong right? So just having the plants in the tank they are giving off oxygen ? i thought they had to be established before they did that you know rooted and growing and all that ? I will probably get some from the website how many bunches do you suggest in my tank ? im not sure how big they come and i dont want to ge too much.

MCHRKiller
10-22-2010, 11:17 AM
Yeah if it has a rhizome Id move it to the driftwood or pickup a few rocks and attach it there.

The amount of plants you get per item on aquariumplants varies, usually there is somewhat of an indication in the item description. Rooted and potted plants have 1 member, stems vary greatly in size. What are you planning to order?

BiGBlak
10-22-2010, 04:13 PM
Im not running Co2 on my tank so My Question to that is would I be harming my fish if I don't run a air stone ? I kind of like how silent and calm the tank looks without the airstone but in no way I want to harm my fish or make them feel uncomfortable so what would be the big answer for that big question ? I jus don't want to leave my house for like a whole day or so and think everything is ok to come back and find a few fish dead and the rest gasping for air because i left the airstone off. Or should i just leave it optional ? Sometimes on and sometime off?

BiGBlak
10-22-2010, 04:16 PM
Yeah if it has a rhizome Id move it to the driftwood or pickup a few rocks and attach it there.

The amount of plants you get per item on aquariumplants varies, usually there is somewhat of an indication in the item description. Rooted and potted plants have 1 member, stems vary greatly in size. What are you planning to order?
right now i just plan to get the fern but dont know how many bunches to get to fill the back of my tank. I may also order some crypts not sure havnt really searched the whoe website to see al that they have.

BiGBlak
10-22-2010, 05:10 PM
Another question is if surface agitation is all tat really matters is it bad that i have my tank topped off? or is tht the same agitation as not having it topped off ?

thedeanorama
10-22-2010, 05:19 PM
Im not running Co2 on my tank so My Question to that is would I be harming my fish if I don't run a air stone ? I kind of like how silent and calm the tank looks without the airstone but in no way I want to harm my fish or make them feel uncomfortable so what would be the big answer for that big question ? I jus don't want to leave my house for like a whole day or so and think everything is ok to come back and find a few fish dead and the rest gasping for air because i left the airstone off. Or should i just leave it optional ? Sometimes on and sometime off?

I had the same concerns, especially since I was also running co2. The only thing that finally put my mind at ease was the purchase of an O2 testing kit. My kitchen is starting to look like the lab of a mad scientist but it does help me sleep at night.

thedeanorama
10-22-2010, 05:22 PM
Another question is if surface agitation is all tat really matters is it bad that i have my tank topped off? or is tht the same agitation as not having it topped off ?

The way my tank is designed I have little to no agitation but my water is still oxygenated, but I do have a planted tank

W_Oz
10-23-2010, 06:06 PM
Im not running Co2 on my tank so My Question to that is would I be harming my fish if I don't run a air stone ? I kind of like how silent and calm the tank looks without the airstone but in no way I want to harm my fish or make them feel uncomfortable so what would be the big answer for that big question ? I jus don't want to leave my house for like a whole day or so and think everything is ok to come back and find a few fish dead and the rest gasping for air because i left the airstone off. Or should i just leave it optional ? Sometimes on and sometime off?

The biggest test of if you need to run a stone will be in the early morning before any light hits the tank. If you come down in the early morning and look at how your fish are behaving you'll see if they're all at the surface gasping or if they're just chilling out wherever in the tank. However, you aren't making an ADA tank, and you're not injecting CO2. At this point, your tank priority should be your fish and not your plants. There is a clear distinction between a tank which is plants first and fish second which is the hi-tech ADA injecting x bubbles/minute of CO2 to keep that up with minimal surface agitation to keep what they're putting in in the tank instead of driving it off into the atmosphere. And a tank which is fish first which is typically what I consider most (not all) low-tech tanks.

The low-tech tanks I'm talking about do have appropriate 5000K to 6500K lighting, but they're low/medium light, they aren't adding chemicals to make the plants happy and typically are growing the so-called "newbie friendly" plants which really don't need much to grow and thrive. That isn't to say that's all low-tech plants, but that seems to fit the bill for what's happening here.

In such a low-tech tanks having things like bubblers, HOB Filters, and other items which would be inappropriate for other planted tanks are completely fine. My 55 gallon tank is a testament to that where the plants just grow like weeds in there and I do run air into my powerheads and there are thousands of micro-bubbles in my water all the time. I have three species of plants in that tank and they really do just take care of themselves. I have Jungle Val, a specie of Crypt and Java Fern. that's it, three plant species and I can't keep them from completely overgrowing the tank.

HOWEVER, however. I can't in good conscience tell you to do it my way or you are wrong. If you do decide to remove the bubbler, just see how your fish take it. They won't die during the day most likely because that's when the lights are on and the plants are making O2. However at night, and this is something people seem to forget, plants respire just like any other creature does and the PLANTS themselves will consume dissolved Oxygen from the water column which will cause a drop in the overall D-O2 levels in your tank which can in turn generate a hypoxic (very low dissolved O2) condition which can, and will, kill fish if left unchecked depending on severity and duration. Chronic (repeated) exposure to hypoxic conditions will weaken and stress fish which would otherwise be healthy and acute (sudden/severe) hypoxic conditions will kill fish outright just because there isn't enough oxygen in the tank for the fish that do end up dead. Looking are your tank and what you have going on there I don't think that you'll have to worry about an acute situation since you really don't have that many fish for your tank's apparent surface area, nor do you have very many plants.

So the bottom line is that it's unlikely, IMO that removing the bubbler will kill your fish in a day or more even IF they do need the bubbler at night time (which I don't know that they do). So don't freak out, because that isn't my intention here, and just do some careful observation of your fish after you remove the airstone.

cichlids209
10-23-2010, 06:18 PM
really all a air stone is for imo is if your filters cant produce enough surface agitation or if you only have a filter on one side someone will put a air stone on the other side to make the water break up at top your fish don't need a air stone but if you do have one it dosent hurt . i have too heard though there not good when you have plants furthermore I have also heard that its best to use canisters with plants as well . Again though you don't have to do that either

BiGBlak
10-25-2010, 12:47 AM
Im already getting new growth from my newly added plants . within 3 or 4 days im already getting new leaves from my sword and amy other plant.

Excellence
10-25-2010, 10:38 AM
Blak, if you don't want a noisy airstone and I understand that sentiment, go for an airpipe. 30, 60, 90, 120cm. I have a couple running the side and backwall of mine. They're not that noisey, really.

Phaedrus2129
10-26-2010, 02:09 AM
From my recent experience, I'd say that if you've got a tank at least a foot and a half deep without excessive current on the top then a tiger lily might be worth looking into. I planted a tiger lily bulb in my 6.6ga without knowing what it was, and it just took off after two weeks. Once I realized what it was I moved it to my 46ga and it's happily sending up emergent leaves and spreading, and my fish love it, especially the Julii corydoras; they like to roll on the leaves and root around under it.