Fat pearl gourami?

[Brhino]

I'm looking at my pearl gourami today and it strikes me as quite fat looking. The front part of his body (where all the internal organs are located) looks quite rounded. It's smooth and symmetrical. Going back over my previous pictures in my journal reveals that the front part has always been a bit fatter than the tail region, but it looks much more pronounced now. Is this a sign of overfeeding or illness, or something else?

The batteries on the camera died, so it'll be a few hours before I can get a picture.

[rich311k]

Could be a bit of constipation. maybe hold off on feeding for a day or two, or see if you can get him to eat some pea bits.

[Brhino]

batteries recharged, here's the pics.
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Looks like his color is a little faded as well. He's also being unusually calm... normally he hates having his picture taken.

Pea bits were ignored, so far... maybe he'll get hungry before the pleco and the shrimp eat them all.

[rich311k]

Definetly something wrong, hopefully just a blockage he can pass.

[Brhino]

fingers crossed. Between the dead cory, the sick goldfish, and now this, my successful-fish-keeping-ego is taking a pounding.

[Taurus]

Bri, don't feed anymore. Give the whole tank a break for a couple of days and see if the pearl's blockage clears. And you might want to get a isolation tank ready if you have one.

You might want to consider and Epson Salts bath. Here's a link on how to treat a constipated betta, but the same treatment could be applied to your pearl. I've never tried this before as I've never had a constipated fish, but the logic is sound.

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[Brhino]

yeah, too bad my hospital tank is currently occupied by one of my goldfish. Starting to feel like I'm doing something very wrong and causing recurring problems.

[Spardas]

You can go ahead and use the bath method as I feel this is only a constipation case. However, if nothing improves in a day. I'd also put in kanamycin or maracyn 2 along with the epsom salt.

[Brhino]

all right, gave him a bath, then into the hospital tank. Got a real good look at him from above while he was in the tank... it really does look like he swallowed a marble. very symmetrical, very round. He hasn't gotten food since friday, so hopefully we'll see some bowel movement here soon.

[Brhino]

no changes, no poop. So here's the timetable right now.

Friday the 8th: notice swelling, cease feeding.
Sunday the 9th: Swelling unchanged. 20 minute bath in epsom salt at 1 tablespoon/gallon followed by move to isolation (non-salted water)
Monday the 10th: Swelling unchanged. No poop in tank. No food since Friday.

So, now what? Another bath at 1 tbsp/gal followed by maracyn 2 and epsom salt at 1tbsp / 5gal in the hospital? Does the fact that there's been no poop and no swelling reduction indicate the problem is not constipation, or that the constipation is not freeing up? Should I continue to refrain from feeding until something changes?

[promise]

I have to ask B are you feeding the goldfish the same as your gourami's??
just asking as your Goldie has the same kind of problem.

[Brhino]

yes and no. I have two "staple" foods:

nutrafin max goldfish color enhancing pellets - across three different tanks, these are eaten by the goldfish, the betta, the danios, and the gourami. In the goldfish tank they're placed in whole, in the betta and community tanks they're crushed first so the little mouths can swallow them.

nutrafin max bottom feeder sinking tablets - one of these gets put in the community tank. They're for the corydoras, but every fish in the tank steals bites of them.

when I first got the gourami he was very shy and he only ate the sinking tablets, but once he got bolder and also figured out that there is food placed at the surface, he eats the pellets more.

I also do frozen bloodworms once a week. I've read that they're protein-rich and can cause constipation if overfed, but I skipped the last week when I was giving medicated food to the goldfish, so it had been a while since the gourami had any when it got constipated. I also used to do live brine shrimp, but the last time I did that was right before the first goldfish to die got sick, so I guess I've been sort of spooked away from using those.

If anyone thinks I'm making poor feeding decisions by all means speak up, and if the expert types agree I will gladly modify how or what I feed. So far, though, I've mentioned what I feed whenever I've been asked, and nobody's raised much alarm.

[Brhino]

no change and no poop again this morning.

He's hiding in the flower pot I put in the hospital tank, but I don't think that's too unusual, as he often hid even when he wasn't sick. If anything his color might look a bit better, but there's been no improvement on the bulge.

[promise]

No wasn't saying you were making bad food choices was just wondering as i remember the goldie with the red anus and raised scales, was thinking it may be connected is all.
try cutting the blood worm out completely as if they already have a gut compacted with food that they cant pass then adding more is not going to be good.

i just read through both posts and cant see anything else to do apart from starve for 2-3 days add some garlic to the water and maybe dice up a pea, is the gourami pooping at all??

[Brhino]

nope, he hasn't pooped for sure since I added him to the hospital tank, although he also hasn't been fed for four days. So, in the off chance that it's NOT constipation, he could just have an empty stomach.

[promise]

Bloating through nil food consumption thats possible.
im gonna do some research buddy will get back to you.

[Brhino]

well he BECAME bloated while he still had access to food. He then spent a couple days with no food but still in the community tank so I can't be sure if he pooped then or not, but the bloating didn't go down. Then he moved to the hospital tank and still no food, no poop, and no reduction of swelling.

[promise]

Hmmm im reading that Dropsy causes the symptoms the goldfish has, raised scales and a bloated stomach.

Im sure you Knew this already sorry if i am parroting what you already knew bud
This is what i found

"Dropsy or Malawi Bloat" Bloated fish scales are raised, possible loss or lessening of body coloration. This is not really a disease, but a symptom of a bacterial infection and possibly malnutrition. There are medications available but try to increase the quality of the water by performing a 25% water change every other day and increase the quality of fish food given. If your fish's condition doesn't improve, try the medication. Your local pet store should have medication for this disease. Remove any carbon filtration before using medication because the carbon will remove the medication from the water.

I Know your WC's are impeccible so i cant see that being an issue.

[promise]

Just found this too


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Again i know you don't have poor water conditions and i know you know what you are doing this is all i can find that kind of match the symptoms.

Strange to say the least.

[Spardas]

For future reference, simply spread out your feeding more with less food. Also, soak your pellet food in tank's water or garlic juice, etc. Invest in automatic feeder to feed sparingly with flakes while you're away.

See if you can switch over to freeze dried food as the occasional treat instead of frozen.

Smaller fishes will have smaller stomach/intenstine and sometimes, the pellet will become lodged inside and allow bacteria to grow. It may or may not grow at such a fast rate that'll cause kidney damage. This in turn cause the bloat effect with extra fluid inside the body. Frozen food if taken in too much may also cause this in smaller fishes.

Bloat can kill as fast as a day.

[Brhino]

okay, I'll take all that under advisement. What more can I do for him right now?

Promise, I do agree that the goldfish had dropsy, but it was one of the later-developing symptoms.

[Spardas]

Do 2 tbsp/10 gallon epsom salt and maracyn 2 in the hospital tank.

[Brhino]

yup, started that last night.

[Brhino]

no change in the swelling and no poop in the tank tonight. The one good thing is that his color has returned a bit.

[Brhino]

began third day of maracyn 2 + 2 tbsp epsom salt tonight. No change, no poop. Tried feeding him a tiny bit of pea but he wasn't interested.

[Brhino]

I may have found a bit of poop in the tank. It was about a millimeter long, it could just as easily been something that came out of the filter or whatever. The bad news is he's starting to get some redness in his front/gill cover region, you can see it below:
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Any advice on that?

[Brhino]

poop!

I got home from work to find a couple pieces of poop in the quarantine tank. They're big but nothing ridiculous, and he still looks swollen. Today marks a week since he's last been fed, and tonight is the fifth night of epsom salt and maracyn 2. Not sure where I should go from here.

[rich311k]

I wish I could help you more. I hope he pulls through.

[promise]

Have you tried feeding him?

[Brhino]

do you think that's a good idea, given that the swelling is still there?

[NathanF]

do you think that's a good idea, given that the swelling is still there?

Not to thread hijack, but I may be in the exact same boat as you! We have 2 pearl gourami's that we've had for about a week. I could be seeing things, but they both seem to be bulging out a little bit as well.

Here's a video: [Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

Everyone else in the tank and the water itself is just fine. I'm wondering if it's simply a case of too much food, or the type of food. We're using "TetraColor Tropical Crisps." It says "Up to 35 percent less waste - concentrated nutrition" on the bottle.

My partner is the one that does the feeding, and her motherly instincts take over I think, so she gives them probably 2 very small pinches twice a day for the whole tank, plus a quarter of a sinking algae tablet. (All for the two gouramis, 12 cardinal tetras, two plecos, 4 platys, and 1 molly.) Food usually disappears completely with a minute or two. I've told her many times they don't need much food, and I think this may finally convince her!

Anyway, no quarantine tank here. Would not feeding the whole tank for a few days be out of line / endanger any of the other fish?

Here's hoping the both of us can get this sorted out.

[Brhino]

yours don't look that bad at all to me, although I know when I was photographing mine he didn't look that bad depending on the camera angle.

You can easily skip feeding the whole tank for several days without any ill effects.

[Brhino]

he's now making multiple poops each day. I'm not sure if the swelling has gone down some or not, but it's definitely still there. I've tried dropping a tiny piece of food in the tank now and then but he ignores it. At this point I'm just keeping him in the epsom salt and changing the water every day. Not sure what else to do.

[Brhino]

update: still pooping, still not eating, still swollen but less so. Just waiting for now, I guess. The poop that he's making now disintegrates into sort of a dust at the bottom of the tank, not sure what the significance of that is.

[Trillianne]

Well pooping is good! Hopefully this means he is on the road to recovery. *crosses fingers*

[Brhino]

well all of a sudden over the last two days he's swelled up again. Also, he hasn't pooped in the last 24 hours. I don't know if that means he's constipated again, or that he's finally cleared out his stomach. Not sure what to do now - seems like this means the swelling isn't entirely related to constipation. How could he swell back up with nothing to eat?

[MCHRKiller]

Internal parasites or infection is my guess, I would personally treat for both internal bacterial infection and internal parasites...just to be on the safe side. :11:

[Brhino]

I've started him on another dose of maracyn 2, that should address potential infection... then I've got some of the jungle lab anti-parasite stuff - use that too, you think?

[Brhino]

found him dead this morning. Still don't really understand what happened, what with the swelling going down and then back up even without food. I'm now 0 for 3 in attempting to heal fish in a hospital tank, which doesn't feel great.

[Trillianne]

Oh Brhino I'm so sorry. I know you really care about your fish and had high hopes it would be resolved for you.

[m1aman]

Okay, I know this is an old thread but I am surprised no one considered the fact that your Gourami is egg bound. I had a Pearl in tank with no other Gouramis and she became egg bound. Basically constipated with eggs. I got the smallest syringe I could find and drew some of the eggs out. She died though... but at least I (and my lfs expert) were able to verify what the problem was.

I am no Gourami expert and don't pretend to be. :fish:

[Brhino]

well, it's easy to tell the gender of pearl gouramis, and mine was a male. Sooo... probably not egg bound. :ssmile:

[m1aman]

Ha! Guess I should hone up on my reading comprehension.